Where did it all go wrong for EMINEM?

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Postby biscuits » Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:24 am

I hope I'm allowed to keep this thread open. The purpose is for us all to pinpoint and discuss exactly where a certain act's career changed (for the better or worse). I think this could result in some fun and eye-opening discussion if we all post maturely. This isn't an attempt to ignite drama and it is not an excuse to call another artist a 'flop', but rather to talk about when and why you think their fortunes changed. If you don't think an artist's career has taken a turn for the worse, you can simply say so without stanning. Also, you don't need to troll either if you don't like certain artists.

Ok, so let's start with...MICHAEL JACKSON

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[size=85]1. Michael Jackson
2. Usher
3. Madonna
4. Christina Aguilera
5. Ciara
6. Britney Spears
7. Alanis Morissette
8. Janet Jackson
9. Toni Braxton
10. Brandy
11. Nelly
12. Leona Lewis
13. Nelly Furtado
14. Jennifer Lopez
15. 50 Cent
16. Anastacia
17. Shola Ama
18. Kelis
19. Mariah Carey
20. Lady Gaga
21. Katy Perry
22. Eminem
Last edited by biscuits on Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:24 pm, edited 19 times in total.
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Postby Vindrag » Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:33 am

This is a great idea biscuits! And this:

biscuits wrote:I think this could result in some fun and eye-opening discussion if we all post maturely. This isn't an attempt to ignite drama and it is not an excuse to call another artist a 'flop', but rather to talk about when and why you think their fortunes changed.
Michael Jackson huh? I have never been a fan of his music, there's not much I like, not even the slightest. Therefore I have not been interested enough to read about his personal life and circumstances which might have affected his work. But I suppose the bad rumours that began surrounding him changed his fortune? Music wise.. to me, it's been rather an equilibrium of sleepy, overrated and uninteresting music. Comercial wise though, did it ever go wrong for him, while still alive? R.I.P.
Last edited by Vindrag on Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby biscuits » Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:34 am

Michael Jackson

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Obviously the first set of child molestation charges caused great damage to his career, but I think he could have overcome these problems.

Because he truly was innocent, (as the boy later revealed he lied), he should have been a lot more confident about the whole thing and not done things to make him look guilty (paying the Chandler family). I'm not sure he should have hidden away either. I think these acts caused damage to his career.

But they didn't ruin his career, because HIStory was still a mega success in 1995. Perhaps one of the biggest mistakes was not releasing a studio album in 1997-1999. This would have been a perfect time to release an album and it would have kept him in the public eye for the right reasons. A remix album wasn't good enough. And by the time he released 'Invincible' in 2001, a lot of people had moved on it seemed and he had become weirder and weirder (not helped by the plastic surgery). So that long break he took between 1995-2001 was definitely career damaging.

By 2001, his career was already a mess, but the Martin Bashir documentary obviously made things worse. It was now confirmed that MJ was quite a strange guy, and this led to all sorts of bad press, meaning MJ became more of a recluse. Downward spiral just got worse and his career just nose-dived from this point. He was still a great catalog seller, but he released no new music, didn't make many public appearance, was in and out of court, behaved erratically and became dependent on drugs, ultimately leading to his death.

So for Michael, I'd say the following things are where it all went wrong:
- 1993 molestation charges and how he handled them publicly
- Not releasing a studio album between 1995-2001
- Martin Bashir documentary
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Postby MonaBlissa » Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:38 am

I think the second child molestation case---which appeared to be blatant fraud---and his war with Tommy Mottola and the Invincible cd, which wasn't bad, but wasn't an Off The Wall was the slippery slope down.
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Postby Wayne » Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:43 am

Oh yes, this is a good idea! :) And wow @ a Mad About Music topic starting with a non-female! :o :P

As for Michael, I grew up knowing he was good. But I had to find out just how good he was - I think by the end of the 90's, people had forgotten just why he was the King of Pop [so around 1997/1998 is when I'd say it all went wrong].

He died, having sold more records than any other act in music history, aside from Elvis Presley and the Beatles. Its just a shame that the world waited until it was too late to show how much they loved him.
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Postby jio » Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:58 am

Where did it go wrong? Well, he was always an extremely controversial personality but his music and performances were out of this world so people could look beyond the weirdness. The child molestation accusations could have gone the same way, if only his music continued been good. However, it wasn't. 1995 onwards he seemed more and more trapped in his larger-than-life-superstar bubble, unable to move on (with his music, his looks or otherwise), unable to grow up gracefully, unable to remain relevant and his weirdness just grew bigger by the day. Yes, his sales remained good mainly because of his fanbase (which is huge) and because he is one of the very few acts who has literally legend status in the remotest corners of the planet, but, honestly, I think any casual fan would have great difficulty naming a single song by him post-"They Don't Care About Us". Unfortunately, it was his tragic death and not his recent music, which restored him in the eyes of the world as the legend he trully was
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Postby HBIC » Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:12 pm

Molestation charges
Skin bleaching/headlines about his appearance more than his music
Hanging his baby over a balcony
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Postby CrazyCrazy » Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:14 pm

Good idea, as stated previously his downfall truly started from the molestation allegations. I also think his music had declined in quality at the time "Invincible" and he became a little stale which might have also contributed to his fading from the charts.
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Postby jpguy » Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:08 pm

jamesssxD wrote:Molestation charges
Skin bleaching/headlines about his appearance more than his music
Hanging his baby over a balcony
Exactly! These three! He looked so weird and he scared me while I was a kid!! So sad for such a talented man!
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Postby stevyy » Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:59 pm

when is face became unrecognizable.. maybe around 1990 or so. that was the end. I think those child molestation accusations didn't harm his career so much (In Europe).. but his scary ghost-like look did. He became nor female nor male.. so scary.


Apart from that.. I continued to support him with all my heart.
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Postby Titan3510 » Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:17 pm

Where did it all go wrong?

I'm with Jio: things started getting bad at the end of the Bad era. Remember Leave Me Alone?

But he really fell off in 1995 with HIStory album. He was steadily losing relevance as a musical act and he just kept getting weirder and weirder.

The second molestation charges were the nails being hammered into the coffin.
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Postby stevyy » Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:20 pm

Titan3510 wrote:Where did it all go wrong?

I'm with Jio: things started getting bad at the end of the Bad era. Remember Leave Me Alone?

But he really fell off in 1995 with HIStory album. He was steadily losing relevance as a musical act and he just kept getting weirder and weirder.

The second molestation charges were the nails being hammered into the coffin.
how did it all go wrong with History? The album is a masterpiece.. selling 1,5m in Germany alone. (which is a blockbuster) ok apart from its fantastic sales (20m) the lisa-marie stunt was pretty lame.
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Postby Merci » Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:23 pm

when he started molesting kids?
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Postby stevyy » Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:24 pm

Merci wrote:when he started molesting kids?
this has never been proven.
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Postby biscuits » Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:25 pm

stevyy wrote:how did it all go wrong with History? The album is a masterpiece.. selling 1,5m in Germany alone. (which is a blockbuster) ok apart from its fantastic sales (20m)
I agree. HIStory was a success, which he should have taken advantage of by releasing a follow-up album soon after.
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Postby biscuits » Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:25 pm

stevyy wrote:
Merci wrote:when he started molesting kids?
this has never been proven.
And the 2 boys that did accuse him were proven to be liars.

It's such a horrible shame that these greedy people broke him down so badly.
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Postby stevyy » Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:28 pm

biscuits wrote:
stevyy wrote:
Merci wrote:when he started molesting kids?
this has never been proven.
And the 2 boys that did accuse him were proven to be liars.

It's such a horrible shame that these greedy people broke him down so badly.
it's a shame that janet never recovered (so far) from exposing her nipple at national tv.. and that people accused michael of all the bad things despite him being innocent.

i think after 30-40 years of completely ruling the american music market.. jealousy destroyed the jackson fame there.
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Postby Wmosi » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:09 pm

The Invincible album and the Bashir documentary.

That was 2001, i think.
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Postby NothingFails » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:13 pm

I think the Black Or White video controversy was when perceptions seemed to shift slightly for him. While Madonna and even Prince to an extent actually profited from controversy, Michael was always seen as this inoffensive guy that everyone could listen to, even a song like Dirty Diana couldn't really cause controversy despite being about sex with a groupie. Black Or White was the first time something MJ did backfired on him and people seemed to get more critical of him. But it didn't stop Dangerous from becoming huge.

While Black Or White was the moment I think the tide shifted a bit, it was the crap that happened in 1993 that really was the beginning of the end sadly... and I honestly believe Michael might still be alive if it wasn't for that and the 2003 allegations as well.
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Postby Wmosi » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:16 pm

^^What was the Black or White video controversy about?
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Postby NothingFails » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:19 pm

Wmosi wrote:^^What was the Black or White video controversy about?
The last four minutes with the extensive crotch-grabbing and violence, MTV immediately edited the video after a day or two of so many complaints. It was all over the news the next day, parents were mortified because Michael was someone they "trusted" their kids to look up to. It was the first time I recall him getting any negative reaction to something, and it seemed like it opened the floodgates to all the negativity he got for the rest of his life.
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Postby toni_pest » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:20 pm

Merci wrote:when he started molesting kids?
Yeah, the first thing that came to my mind.
:)
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Postby JSparksFan » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:27 pm

jamesssxD wrote:Molestation charges
Skin bleaching/headlines about his appearance more than his music
Hanging his baby over a balcony
I agree completely. His bizarre behaviour (like the monkey buddy he had) really didn't do him any favours. The molestation charges hurt him the most though. I'm sure that sent him into depression and I don't think he was ever really accepted again by the public like he was pre-molestation accusation.
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Postby BlueScorpion » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:33 pm

It all started at the end of the 80s, when his skin gone lighter. First time someone talked to me about Michael they said he was some black guy that made plastic surgery because he liked to be white. That's so ignorant of people...

The pedophilia cases were obviously harder to get, especially because the press hit him heavily. Michael always was extravagant, so was the entire family, therefore they started calling him "wacko jacko" and the name stuck.

After many unstable years in terms of personal life (Michael NEVER flopped with an album IMO), he launched "Invincible" to high expectations. IMO it's one hell of an underrated album. As my interest grew on him after his death (I'm a fan), I've realized his fans appreciate this album A LOT (something I wouldn't thought, but they gladly do).
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Postby biscuits » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:35 pm

JSparksFan wrote:
I agree completely. His bizarre behaviour (like the monkey buddy he had) really didn't do him any favours.
That was during his peak though. So while it raised a few eyebrows, it didn't really affect his career in any way I think.

I think he was also too hard on himself. 'Bad' and 'Dangerous' were huge sellers, but I think he always wanted to outdo 'Thriller'. This led to him becoming more and more over the top.
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