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Postby clh_hilary » Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:34 am

aRat wrote:omg those essays
Well, someone asked for evidence, I provided evidence.

Little did I know the way UKMIX works is to simply throw out unsubstantiated assertions and call it a day.

But guess what? As an Oxford graduate, I'm quite used to reading published research and using them to back up my claims.
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Postby jio » Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:44 am

As I said before you can believe what you like. I dont doubt prep's efficiency in preventing infections. I doubt the effects on the big picture meaning overall infection rates (given the change in attitutes towards safer sex) other stds and effects on long-term health of individuals. If there was no alternative Id say very well but since there is I dont see any purpose in arguing this. It is simple.
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Postby Rihab » Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:55 am

Some people are so gullible, it‘s truly alarming. NO PILL has ever done good only.

I guess they can‘t teach you common sense at Oxford.
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Postby clh_hilary » Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:29 pm

Rihab wrote:Some people are so gullible, it‘s truly alarming. NO PILL has ever done good only.

I guess they can‘t teach you common sense at Oxford.
Did I claim that it has ever done only good?

No. I said long-term effects were not found, and that it has driven HIV rates down. I was even the one who pointed out that even vitamin C has a long list of potential side effects.

I guess reading comprehension is really difficult for some people.

You are building up a strawman here. That's common sense I guess?

I literally had this exact conversation in the last page, but you go off I guess.

clh_hilary wrote:
RayRay wrote:^ No medicine/drug is only "good" for you. That's why they have to be prescribed.
Not all medications are prescripted drugs. But if they are approved by the government, they are supposed to be good enough.

But yes, the fact that all medication, even Vitamin C pills have a long list of potential side effects was precisely my point. Sure, consider the potential side effects, but let's not act like PrEP having them is anything special.
Last edited by clh_hilary on Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby clh_hilary » Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:36 pm

jio wrote:As I said before you can believe what you like. I dont doubt prep's efficiency in preventing infections. I doubt the effects on the big picture meaning overall infection rates (given the change in attitutes towards safer sex) other stds and effects on long-term health of individuals. If there was no alternative Id say very well but since there is I dont see any purpose in arguing this. It is simple.
Long-term effects are a moot point to begin with, as anyone suffering from a short-term effect, ie anyone with a declining kidney function while on PrEP below healthy levels, is taken off PrEP completely. If they continue taking it despite the medical advice against their taking it, then they're abusing it.

There cannot be long-term effects if only people with no short-term issues with the kidney could continue taking it.

---

Some other published research:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanh ... 52-3018(18)30215-7/fulltext
HIV diagnoses in MSM in New South Wales declined from 295 in the 12 months before PrEP roll-out to 221 in the 12 months after (relative risk reduction [RRR] 25·1%, 95% CI 10·5–37·4). There was a decline both in recent HIV infections (from 149 to 102, RRR 31·5%, 95% CI 11·3 to 47·3) and in other HIV diagnoses (from 146 to 119, RRR 18·5%, 95% CI −4·5 to 36·6)...PrEP implementation was associated with a rapid decline in HIV diagnoses in the state of New South Wales...

http://www.aidsmap.com/page/3313879/
In San Francisco, where the city's large gay community [b]adopted PrEP early on, new infections fell to their lowest-ever level in 2016...a dramatic recent decline in new infections among gay men attending sexual health clinics in London – representing a very high-risk population – and a large decrease among men who have sex with men in Sydney have also been attributed to a combination of approaches including stepped up testing, treatment and PrEP...The overall HIV diagnosis rate decreased significantly, from 15.7 per 100,000 persons in 2012 to 14.5 per 100,000 persons in 2016, an estimated annual decline of -1.6% per year...[/b]
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Postby RayRay » Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:10 pm

Rihab wrote:Some people are so gullible, it‘s truly alarming. NO PILL has ever done good only.
So true this. I've seen it too often. I'd rather not even take something for having a headache.
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Postby clh_hilary » Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:12 pm

RayRay wrote:
Rihab wrote:Some people are so gullible, it‘s truly alarming. NO PILL has ever done good only.
So true this. I've seen it too often. I'd rather not even take something for having a headache.
Once again, I never said any medication would have no side effects, I clearly pointed out the opposition, as in my response to you, quoted above again, and to that other person.
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Postby RayRay » Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:18 pm

clh_hilary wrote:
RayRay wrote:
Rihab wrote:Some people are so gullible, it‘s truly alarming. NO PILL has ever done good only.
So true this. I've seen it too often. I'd rather not even take something for having a headache.
Once again, I never said any medication would have no side effects, I clearly pointed out the opposition, as in my response to you, quoted above again, and to that other person.
Don't know why you quote me here. I just agree with Rihab here. Didn't say anything about your views. Not everything is about you.
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Postby Jesper » Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:32 pm

I cannot believe it is 2018 and we still have people like this on Dutch TV
Football analyst Johan Derksen is again under fire about statements he made, this time for comments made about gay people on Veronica Inside. "We just have to stop saying its so hard to come out of the closet. If you have a bit of character, you just come out", he said. The remark has since turned into the viral hashtag #SorryJohan with over 17 thousand posts on Twitter, RTL Nieuws reports.

Derksen made these statements after football supporter Bowi Jong and others sent a letter to football association KNVB saying that they can't visit a stadium without their sexual orientation being brought up in a negative way. "I will not let myself be bothered by two hysterical young homosexuals", Derksen said.

The remarks were not taken well by the public or Jong himself. Jong therefore wrote another letter: "Sorry Johann, I should have had character. Should have resisted when I was pushed out of the boys' dressing room by classmates because 'I do not belong there', should have pushed back when someone pushed me in the hallway and whispered 'dirty homo'," he wrote.

The hashtag #SorryJohan has since been featured in over 17 thousand tweets.
https://nltimes.nl/2018/11/29/football- ... gay-people

I am not a 'snowflake' but the fact it is just that we have to accept these kind of 'jokes' because they are being made in the 'locker room' kind of way and are socially accepted in this heteronormative world, doesn't mean it isn't hard to still come out of the closet in 2018 and that people should think lightly about it like it is not a big of a deal for people. It shouldn't be a big deal for anybody, nobody should come out of any closet in this day and age, but the reality is that it isn't easy, that there still is so much hate, both verbally and physically. These kind of people just fuel the already excisting hate.

I literally heard recently from someone that didn't know I am gay that gays should not complain because they chose to be gay and have to deal with their descision, it is 2018 for crying out loud. And it is a person of the same kind of crowd that watch that program.
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Postby RayRay » Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:43 pm

Jesper wrote:I cannot believe it is 2018 and we still have people like this on Dutch TV
Football analyst Johan Derksen is again under fire about statements he made, this time for comments made about gay people on Veronica Inside. "We just have to stop saying its so hard to come out of the closet. If you have a bit of character, you just come out", he said. The remark has since turned into the viral hashtag #SorryJohan with over 17 thousand posts on Twitter, RTL Nieuws reports.

Derksen made these statements after football supporter Bowi Jong and others sent a letter to football association KNVB saying that they can't visit a stadium without their sexual orientation being brought up in a negative way. "I will not let myself be bothered by two hysterical young homosexuals", Derksen said.

The remarks were not taken well by the public or Jong himself. Jong therefore wrote another letter: "Sorry Johann, I should have had character. Should have resisted when I was pushed out of the boys' dressing room by classmates because 'I do not belong there', should have pushed back when someone pushed me in the hallway and whispered 'dirty homo'," he wrote.

The hashtag #SorryJohan has since been featured in over 17 thousand tweets.
https://nltimes.nl/2018/11/29/football- ... gay-people

I am not a 'snowflake' but the fact it is just that we have to accept these kind of 'jokes' because they are being made in the 'locker room' kind of way and are socially accepted in this heteronormative world, doesn't mean it isn't hard to still come out of the closet in 2018 and that people should think lightly about it like it is not a big of a deal for people. It shouldn't be a big deal for anybody, nobody should come out of any closet in this day and age, but the reality is that it isn't easy, that there still is so much hate, both verbally and physically. These kind of people just fuel the already excisting hate.

I literally heard recently from someone that didn't know I am gay that gays should not complain because they chose to be gay and have to deal with their descision, it is 2018 for crying out loud. And it is a person of the same kind of crowd that watch that program.
I am glad people took it to Twitter. Especially since it's not just this one time. He's been making this stupid gay remarks too often; why would he bring it up so often in a football program if he has nothing against gays? :-?
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Postby Jesper » Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:55 pm

Êxactly my thoughts
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Postby Serby » Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:55 am

Yasss take that backlash
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Postby Serby » Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:59 am

A bit serious question, but:

Anyone else feel they didn't accept/embrace their passive sex side until they realised it is connected how we see women (recievers) in our societies? I feel like the bottom problems are very often similar/same to women problems in hetero relations. I'd say there's some sort of bottom shaming in our comunity and that it's a gay version of sexism. (Obvs not to say that if you don't like to bottom that you are 'sexist')
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Postby biscuits » Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:30 pm

Yeah definitely. Bottoms are considered fem and weak
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Postby MusicRecords » Fri Nov 30, 2018 5:59 pm

biscuits wrote:Yeah definitely. Bottoms are considered fem and weak
+1
sooo not news, bottoms are always stereotypically the skinny, flamboyant girly ones

While the tops are stereotypically the big, manly macho kind of guys

it is the case more often than not though
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Postby thankfulforkelly » Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:27 pm

Slightly TMI post but looking for some advice from the gheys

I don’t understand prep. There’s a guy I hook up with and he wants to do it raw and I’m like “that’s risky”, and he’s like “I’m on prep” and I really don’t get it does that mean condoms aren’t needed ??? Please help a naive 19 year old
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Postby RayRay » Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:40 pm

thankfulforkelly wrote:Slightly TMI post but looking for some advice from the gheys

I don’t understand prep. There’s a guy I hook up with and he wants to do it raw and I’m like “that’s risky”, and he’s like “I’m on prep” and I really don’t get it does that mean condoms aren’t needed ??? Please help a naive 19 year old
I'd still use a condom though. Especially when you're not in a stable relationship.
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Postby MusicRecords » Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:05 pm

RayRay wrote:
thankfulforkelly wrote:Slightly TMI post but looking for some advice from the gheys

I don’t understand prep. There’s a guy I hook up with and he wants to do it raw and I’m like “that’s risky”, and he’s like “I’m on prep” and I really don’t get it does that mean condoms aren’t needed ??? Please help a naive 19 year old
I'd still use a condom though. Especially when you're not in a stable relationship.
+1
Being on Prep does NOT mean that condoms aren't needed
Don't do it...just because he says he's on Prep doesn't mean he's STD free. And that mentality that being on Prep is ok to do it raw is a big red flag. The point of Prep is to stop the spread of HIV, but it doesn't stop other STDs from spreading....so if he thinks that being on prep and doing it raw is safe...it's better not to do anything with him, u don't know if he got anything else with such mentality, way too risky.

As I don't top/btm I am no expert in this, but I think that whatever the case, I would say that u should never do it raw unless you're in a committed relationship and trust him...
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Postby Rihab » Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:18 pm

MR is right, it’s always better to be safe than sorry. Idk how close you are with the guy, but let‘s assume he does say the truth and takes prep (there are sickos out there who get a kick out of infecting people), the only thing that means is he can‘t give you hiv. You could still get dozens of other STDs tho.
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Postby aRat » Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:20 pm

Yeah I also would advise you to use a condom. You don't know anything about him, he could be lying for all you know. Also condoms are safer than prep. Prep is still riskier.
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Postby Loose » Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:23 pm

Be careful. Technically anyone could come up telling you to be on PreP. I‘d have a second thought about it.
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Postby clh_hilary » Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:33 pm

Serby wrote:A bit serious question, but:

Anyone else feel they didn't accept/embrace their passive sex side until they realised it is connected how we see women (recievers) in our societies? I feel like the bottom problems are very often similar/same to women problems in hetero relations. I'd say there's some sort of bottom shaming in our comunity and that it's a gay version of sexism. (Obvs not to say that if you don't like to bottom that you are 'sexist')
Your sexual role in bed doesn't define you as a person nor does it necessarily shape your character. You can be "submissive" in bed but very dominant in the outside world.
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Postby clh_hilary » Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:36 pm

thankfulforkelly wrote:Slightly TMI post but looking for some advice from the gheys

I don’t understand prep. There’s a guy I hook up with and he wants to do it raw and I’m like “that’s risky”, and he’s like “I’m on prep” and I really don’t get it does that mean condoms aren’t needed ??? Please help a naive 19 year old
PrEP - if taken as instructed and monitored - means that person is unlikely to get HIV if he was negative in the first place. By virtue of being a PrEP - once again, if taken as instructed and that he has been monitored (ie getting tested regularly) - it means he is HIV negative.

But like others have said, you don't know if he's telling the truth, let alone if he's taking it as instructed and is being monitored. Essentially, it's the same as someone telling you they just got tested a few days ago.

Sure, if they did get tested and were negative and did not acquire HIV during the window period, they are negative and cannot give you HIV. But it's obvious why you cannot be sure of that.
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Postby clh_hilary » Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:43 pm

MusicRecords wrote:The point of Prep is to stop the spread of HIV, but it doesn't stop other STDs from spreading....so if he thinks that being on prep and doing it raw is safe
Herpes can be "easily passed" by deep kissing.

Gonoherra, herpes, chlamydia, syphilis, HPV can be "easily passed" by oral sex (sucking a penis, licking a vagina, or rimming).

https://smartsexresource.com/sites/defa ... ble-v3.png

Once again, it's interesting how you like to say "you can get a dozen of STDs from someone on PrEP!!! Huge red flag!!!" but you wouldn't say anything about oral sex.

Ever wonder how anyone even gets oral herpes? Did you think they got it from having bareback anal sex?
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Postby MusicRecords » Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:14 pm

clh_hilary wrote:
MusicRecords wrote:The point of Prep is to stop the spread of HIV, but it doesn't stop other STDs from spreading....so if he thinks that being on prep and doing it raw is safe
Herpes can be "easily passed" by deep kissing.

Gonoherra, herpes, chlamydia, syphilis, HPV can be "easily passed" by oral sex (sucking a penis, licking a vagina, or rimming).

https://smartsexresource.com/sites/defa ... ble-v3.png

Once again, it's interesting how you like to say "you can get a dozen of STDs from someone on PrEP!!! Huge red flag!!!" but you wouldn't say anything about oral sex.

Ever wonder how anyone even gets oral herpes? Did you think they got it from having bareback anal sex?
You are a complete snoozefest :lol: :lol:
Of course he can get tons of other STDs in different ways, but he was asking specifically about top/btm and Prep...I was obviously not gonna list the tons of crap he could get from other ways, I assume he knows that obviously u can get stuff like gonorrhea or herpes through different ways...chill :lol: :lol:
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