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Postby Spartan » Tue May 22, 2018 4:42 pm

Wayne wrote:
Benny wrote:
Spartan wrote:It’s to be more safe as I get a reaction to condoms, so to save days of my post-coitus penis burning, PrEP seems like a viable option.
Is the allergic reaction due to latex? Have you tried latex- free condoms?
Regarding PrEP, the long-term effects are unknown, so as RayRay said, I would only take it if there's no other possibility.
A life of abstinence for Pete.
Could think of nothing worse.
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Postby Serby » Tue May 22, 2018 10:17 pm

Def. What's life without it? :lol:
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Postby ArmyOfMe » Tue May 22, 2018 10:29 pm

It could still be worse: you could live a life of abstinence, while being stuck in a room with Ed Sherman's music playing. Guantanamo would be better.
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Postby Serby » Tue May 22, 2018 11:55 pm

ArmyOfMe wrote:It could still be worse: you could live a life of abstinence, while being stuck in a room with Ed Sherman's music playing. Guantanamo would be better.
Oh the horror!

*skips a bad joke about Guantanamo tho*
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Postby ArmyOfMe » Wed May 23, 2018 4:17 am

Serby wrote:
ArmyOfMe wrote:It could still be worse: you could live a life of abstinence, while being stuck in a room with Ed Sherman's music playing. Guantanamo would be better.
Oh the horror!

*skips a bad joke about Guantanamo tho*
Well, they have used Christina Aguilera's music to torture people in Guantanamo, It's not really unrealistic
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Postby Spartan » Wed May 23, 2018 4:28 am

ArmyOfMe wrote:
Serby wrote:
ArmyOfMe wrote:It could still be worse: you could live a life of abstinence, while being stuck in a room with Ed Sherman's music playing. Guantanamo would be better.
Oh the horror!

*skips a bad joke about Guantanamo tho*
Well, they have used Christina Aguilera's music to torture people in Guantanamo, It's not really unrealistic
That torture ain’t just limited to Guantanamo.
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Postby ArmyOfMe » Wed May 23, 2018 4:57 am

The shade is real
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Postby Affillate » Sun May 27, 2018 12:35 am

Just saw this on Facebook and thought it was quite funny. A parody song ‘You Can’t Pray the Gay Away’:

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Postby JSparksFan » Sun May 27, 2018 4:27 am

^ That was cute!
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Postby RayRay » Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:23 pm

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Postby Serby » Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:54 pm

Never used G/liquid E. Poor woman and the son.
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Postby ArmyOfMe » Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:30 am

Heartbreaking story
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Postby jio » Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:33 am

Seems like more and more homosexuality is associated with drug use either legal or illegal and that's really sad IMO.
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Postby johnny_d » Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:17 am

My heart can’t take that story. :cry:

I used to take drugs when I was younger as it was the done thing in my circle at the time. You really don’t know though what you are putting in your body and the damage it can do. It’s Russian roulette. I’m so glad those days are far behind me.

This is such a sad yet very real story. Absolutely devastating.
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Postby RayRay » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:38 pm

johnny_d wrote:My heart can’t take that story. :cry:

I used to take drugs when I was younger as it was the done thing in my circle at the time. You really don’t know though what you are putting in your body and the damage it can do. It’s Russian roulette. I’m so glad those days are far behind me.

This is such a sad yet very real story. Absolutely devastating.
How can you not know? Even little children know drugs are not good for your body and mind.
Good to hear those days are far behind you now.
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Postby cheapthrills » Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:26 pm

I can understand it though. Especially when you're a teenager - you think you're invincible or that you are the exception and will be able to handle it just fine. I wouldn't wish watching a loved one go through a drug addiction on my worst enemy.
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Postby croatiaxtina » Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:54 pm

jio wrote:Seems like more and more homosexuality is associated with drug use either legal or illegal and that's really sad IMO.
Yup. It'all about drugs and sex. Orgys... threesomes, four and more somes...
Masc4masc, bb sex and stuff

Gay community became awful.

That's my experiences recently with gays.
Grindr is all about chems and sex. It's so hard to find someone just for a date.
I haven't been in love or in relationship for sooooo long.

I tried ghb few times, it's a fun drug, you need to know how to use it and how much. It's gr8 for going out cuz 2morrow there's no headache cuz of alcohol.

But I know some ppl who use ghb on daily basis. For work, for drive, for everything and every situation in their life. I know ppl who faint or start to behave awful and agressive and crazy cuz they don't know how to use it and use it tooooo much.

It's fun drug but if you use it you need to know how to use it, and it can't be mixed w alcohol.
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Postby KokoCollino » Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:10 pm

I came in here to say how much it frustrates me that the gay community is so much about sex and gay clichés.

Didn't know it's what you guys are currently talking about.

It's hard to find somebody looking for a true lifelong, kind of traditional relationship.
Looks like I found my way home
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Postby clh_hilary » Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:14 pm

jio wrote:I find the idea that someone would take a medicine all his life only so he/she doesn't use condom somehow disturbing. I wonder if they know what the long-term effects on the liver are.
That's just false representation of what actually happens. Not only is the idea actually being voluntarily taking one from time to time as opposed to invlountarily taking the medication for the rest of one's life, there's no need to take PrEP "all his life" in the first place. The "on-demand" method proven to be safe means you would only be taking it as often as you have sex, and ever if you don't go for that, you can always stop when you're experiencing a dry spell, or you are confident on your partner's sexual activities.

jio wrote:Also the scientific view on this is that it will mathematically lead to an increase of all other STDs hence more medicine for the subject to take more gains for big pharma hooray (condoms are cheap)
This is so wrong.

How much do medications for other STDs cost? How much does HIV medication cost? How many pills must an HIV patient take? How many pills/injections must an other STD patient have? Are you seriously suggesting that selling a few more shots of antibiotics to treat gonorrhoea would make more money than a lifetime of HIV medication?

What's next? The big pharmas have suppressed the cure for cancer and HIV cuz of money? Maybe HIV doesn't actually exist, and the big pharma only invented it to make money? At least with in conspiracy theories, the companies would make more money than in yours...

Also, what has happened is that people with STD(s) are going to be detected much earlier, thus stopping the transmission from going on indefinitely. Condoms aren't effective against most other types of STD, unless, at the very least, you use a condom even for oral sex. If condoms actually work in real-life, we would've seen the HIV slump PrEP has brought us for those STDs (as well as HIV itself) ages ago.

Benny wrote:Regarding PrEP, the long-term effects are unknown, so as RayRay said, I would only take it if there's no other possibility.
Considering the fact that HIV medication has been around for decades. Yes, we know what the long-term effects are, and there's no long-term effects found on the kidney. Short-term effects aren't even observed in most users.

This is just like the people saying we don't know how safe microwaves are.
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Postby MusicRecords » Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:19 pm

I think PrEp is great and an advancement towards stopping people from getting HIV, however, I think it’s abused by many...only taking it as an excuse to whore around and take plenty of guys bare thinking they’re good when in reality it doesn’t prevent many other STDs....

I’m sure some people use it responsibly...but many don’t and it’s quite sad in the gay community
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Postby Benny » Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:37 pm

clh_hilary wrote:
Benny wrote:Regarding PrEP, the long-term effects are unknown, so as RayRay said, I would only take it if there's no other possibility.
Considering the fact that HIV medication has been around for decades. Yes, we know what the long-term effects are, and there's no long-term effects found on the kidney. Short-term effects aren't even observed in most users.

This is just like the people saying we don't know how safe microwaves are.
Of course it can affect the kidney. It has risks like every strong medication and is not like using a microwave! :roll:
We are talking about medicine and not candy.

Proof:

Truvada leaflet:
source: https://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/produc ... LE_EFFECTS

"2. Qualitative and quantitative composition
Each film-coated tablet contains 200 mg of emtricitabine and 245 mg of tenofovir disoproxil.

4.4 Special warnings and precautions for use

Renal effects

Emtricitabine and tenofovir are primarily excreted by the kidneys by a combination of glomerular filtration and active tubular secretion. Renal failure, renal impairment, elevated creatinine, hypophosphataemia and proximal tubulopathy (including Fanconi syndrome) have been reported with the use of tenofovir disoproxil (see section 4.8).

Renal monitoring

Prior to initiating Truvada for the treatment of HIV-1 infection or for use in pre-exposure prophylaxis, it is recommended that creatinine clearance is calculated in all individuals.

In individuals without risk factors for renal disease, it is recommended that renal function (creatinine clearance and serum phosphate) is monitored after two to four weeks of use, after three months of use and every three to six months thereafter.

In individuals at risk for renal disease more frequent monitoring of renal function is required."

4.8 Undesirable effects

"Renal impairment: As Truvada may cause renal damage monitoring of renal function is recommended (see section 4.4). Proximal renal tubulopathy generally resolved or improved after tenofovir disoproxil discontinuation. However, in some HIV-1 infected patients, declines in creatinine clearance did not completely resolve despite tenofovir disoproxil discontinuation. Patients at risk of renal impairment (such as patients with baseline renal risk factors, advanced HIV disease, or patients receiving concomitant nephrotoxic medications) are at increased risk of experiencing incomplete recovery of renal function despite tenofovir disoproxil discontinuation (see section 4.4)."
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Postby clh_hilary » Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:00 am

MusicRecords wrote:I think PrEp is great and an advancement towards stopping people from getting HIV, however, I think it’s abused by many...only taking it as an excuse to whore around and take plenty of guys bare thinking they’re good when in reality it doesn’t prevent many other STDs....

I’m sure some people use it responsibly...but many don’t and it’s quite sad in the gay community
People who use PrEP are most likely people who tend to sleep around already. This argument is the same as the one against HPV vaccine and handing out condoms, because some think those two encourage sex.
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Postby clh_hilary » Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:14 am

Benny wrote:
clh_hilary wrote:
Benny wrote:Regarding PrEP, the long-term effects are unknown, so as RayRay said, I would only take it if there's no other possibility.
Considering the fact that HIV medication has been around for decades. Yes, we know what the long-term effects are, and there's no long-term effects found on the kidney. Short-term effects aren't even observed in most users.

This is just like the people saying we don't know how safe microwaves are.
Of course it can affect the kidney. It has risks like every strong medication and is not like using a microwave! :roll:
We are talking about medicine and not candy.

Proof:

Truvada leaflet:
source: https://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/produc ... LE_EFFECTS

"2. Qualitative and quantitative composition
Each film-coated tablet contains 200 mg of emtricitabine and 245 mg of tenofovir disoproxil.

4.4 Special warnings and precautions for use

Renal effects

Emtricitabine and tenofovir are primarily excreted by the kidneys by a combination of glomerular filtration and active tubular secretion. Renal failure, renal impairment, elevated creatinine, hypophosphataemia and proximal tubulopathy (including Fanconi syndrome) have been reported with the use of tenofovir disoproxil (see section 4.8).

Renal monitoring

Prior to initiating Truvada for the treatment of HIV-1 infection or for use in pre-exposure prophylaxis, it is recommended that creatinine clearance is calculated in all individuals.

In individuals without risk factors for renal disease, it is recommended that renal function (creatinine clearance and serum phosphate) is monitored after two to four weeks of use, after three months of use and every three to six months thereafter.

In individuals at risk for renal disease more frequent monitoring of renal function is required."

4.8 Undesirable effects

"Renal impairment: As Truvada may cause renal damage monitoring of renal function is recommended (see section 4.4). Proximal renal tubulopathy generally resolved or improved after tenofovir disoproxil discontinuation. However, in some HIV-1 infected patients, declines in creatinine clearance did not completely resolve despite tenofovir disoproxil discontinuation. Patients at risk of renal impairment (such as patients with baseline renal risk factors, advanced HIV disease, or patients receiving concomitant nephrotoxic medications) are at increased risk of experiencing incomplete recovery of renal function despite tenofovir disoproxil discontinuation (see section 4.4)."
You need to improve your comprehension. Where exactly did it say there would be long-term effects on kidneys? Where exactly did it say most people would experience short-term effects?

Fact is if someone's kidney function has been compromised, they'd be asked to stop taking PrEP. There are indeed people who had to stop, but what I said was that most did not experience even short-term effects, which is an objective fact, and one that is not, in any way, disputed by the text you clearly didn't read carefully.

So allow me to tell you what you did not understand: no long-term effects have been found for PrEP or the HIV medication it's based on. Short-term effects have been found, but only mild effects on some, and not most, takers.
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Postby Benny » Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:23 am

@ clh_hilary:

I was trying to make the following point:
Taking Truvada has risks, I mean there's a reason why you need a prescription from a doctor to obtain it. The risks are there, even if they may affect only 5 or 10% of all patients taking it.
Personally I don't understand how someone prefers taking medication with the risk of side effects instead of using a simple condom. But of course, everybody is entitled to make this decision by himself. I just think that people should be well-informed before taking Truvada.
By the way, are you a medical doctor or a pharmacist? Or do you work for the company that sells Truvada? :wink:
Because you make it sound as if it that medication is completely harmless.
And one more thing: I find your tone quite condescending, sentences like "you need to improve your comprehension" are completely unnecessary. :wink:
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Postby clh_hilary » Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:58 pm

Benny wrote:Taking Truvada has risks, I mean there's a reason why you need a prescription from a doctor to obtain it.
That is both wrong and irrelevant.

It's not a prescripted course medication in all countries - does it mean there are risks for Britons to take it, but no risk for Mexicans? If a Brit moves from the UK to México, the risks suddenly disappear?

The only reason why PrEP is a prescripted drug in some countries is because that's the norm for antibiotics and antivirals, for fear of people misusing it, ie not finishing a "course", or using it whilst being HIV+, leading to drug resistance.

Benny wrote:The risks are there, even if they may affect only 5 or 10% of all patients taking it.

Because you make it sound as if it that medication is completely harmless.
There are potential side effects, as there are for all drugs.

But I wasn't here to dispute the fact that it could be a negative impact in the short-term on some people's kidney, but the claim that "the long-term effects are unknown". They are as much known as the potential long-term effects of using a microwave, Wi-Fi, approved vaccines, or consuming GM food.

Benny wrote:Personally I don't understand how someone prefers taking medication with the risk of side effects instead of using a simple condom.
Are you going to have the same confusion over why anyone would want to use the birth control pill? How about people who go to the doctor when they catch a cold, instead of just resting and letting it heal? Why do people take vitamin C pills, when they have the potential side effects of Redness and warm feeling of the skin, or flushing, headache, nausea, vomiting, or diarrhea, upset stomach during or after eating, and feeling faint? How about all those people going for traditional Chinese medicine or drinking any kind of herb tea? Why have the Hep A, Hep B, and HPV vaccines? They can just use a condom, no?

Do you never take a panadol when you have a headache? Why didn't you let it heal? Don't you know about its potential side effects bloody or black, tarry stools, bloody or cloudy urine, fever with or without chills, pain in the lower back and/or side (severe and/or sharp), pinpoint red spots on the skin, skin rash, hives, or itching, sore throat, sores, ulcers, or white spots on the lips or in the mouth, sudden decrease in the amount of urine, unusual bleeding or bruising, unusual tiredness or weakness, yellow eyes or skin, diarrhea, increased sweating, loss of appetite, nausea or vomiting, stomach cramps or pain
swelling, pain, or tenderness in the upper abdomen or stomach area. You could even die if you're allergic to it - and allergies could be developed later on in life.

If you didn't have questions for all of these, why is PrEP creating a bigger doubt for you? It's only because of the societal internalized control over gay men's sexual behaviour. It happened with condoms, and it has happened with PrEP. The society just doesn't like gay men having gay sex.

But to answer your question directly, these are some of the reasons I can think of:
- potentially better protection against HIV than using a condom. Condoms' effectiveness is 96%, whilst PrEP is as high as 99%. Condoms have never been approved to be used for anal sex, while PrEP has been;
- in cases of involuntary sex, eg rape, date-rape, stealthing etc;
- added protection, yes, some people are on PrEP and still use a condom;
- protection for exposure not protected by the use of condoms, such as blood going into one's eye, neddles getting shared;
- protection also against Hep B - it's been found that PrEP also works against acquiring Hep B, though with a much, much lower effectiveness;
- for bottoms, actual protection rather than relying on the tops to behave, especially in situations like an orgy; and
- better quality sex. Some people are allergic to condoms, many people cannot get hard or stay hard using a condom, most people need more lubrication when using a condom, and almost everyone finds condomless sex more enjoyable, hence the production of thin condoms and the popularity of bareback sex among both the gay and heterosexual communities.
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