Veganism (POLL #5)

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Are You an Animal Lover?

Yes
22
85%
No
4
15%
Not sure
0
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Total votes : 26

Postby Serby » Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:25 am

Carbon wrote:If I ever go vegetarian/vegan I will ofc refrain from eating all of them
Word games now, but you become vegan when you stop eating animals, not the other way around. :lol: :P
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Postby Serby » Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:33 am

Sorry, but my post took me enough time to not end up on the bottom of previous page. :lol:

Ewokguy15 wrote:
aRat wrote:Yall need to repent. Octopuses, dolphins and most whales are just as intelligent and "aware" as most higher evolved land animals.
Don’t think anyone was including Whales and Dolphins.
Who do you think gets affected and hurt because people consume fish? Quick Google search gave me this:

THOUSANDS OF DOLPHINS KILLED IN FISHING NETS USED IN EU WATERS

Our model, calibrated with data from multi-vessel and aircraft surveys, predicted at least 79 (45–129) thousand tonnes of ocean plastic are floating inside an area of 1.6 million km2; a figure four to sixteen times higher than previously reported. We explain this difference through the use of more robust methods to quantify larger debris. Over three-quarters of the GPGP mass was carried by debris larger than 5 cm and at least 46% was comprised of fishing nets. Microplastics accounted for 8% of the total mass but 94% of the estimated 1.8 (1.1–3.6) trillion pieces floating in the area.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-22939-w
For even better perspective:

Activists and news media often claim that Americans use 500 million plastic straws per day, for example, which sounds awful. But the source of this figure turns out to be a survey conducted by a nine-year-old. ( :lol: :lol: :lol: ) Similarly, two Australian scientists estimate that there are up to 8.3 billion plastic straws scattered on global coastlines. Yet even if all those straws were suddenly washed into the sea, they'd account for about .03 percent of the 8 million metric tons of plastics estimated to enter the oceans in a given year.
https://mercyforanimals.org/straws-arent-the-real-problem-fishing-nets
Serby wrote:Trends like avoiding straws are always a good thing, but the real problem is the fishnet. Whether there is a way to make fishing nets less harmful or not, that is simply not the reality right now! Ghost fishing is a huge problem too I didnt even mention yet.

To summarize: if you want to reduce the plastic trash you create, have less impact on water ecosystems and save precious animals from dying, best thing you can do it to not eat the fish. So, not only animals you eat are spared an unnatural death, but also thousands others killed as a bycatch and by fishing nets.
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Postby MusicRecords » Fri Dec 21, 2018 3:48 pm

Serby wrote:
MusicRecords wrote:
Carbon wrote:
In my mind seafood are basically plants, I have no empathy for them whatsoever (which I know is wrong, don’t come at me Serby) :lol:
Oh gosh, enjoy these moments because they’re the calm before the SerbyStorm :lol:
Me? I'mma let your (sub)conscience do the job, it's what made you write that comment about me and what keeps you coming back to this thread. :P :lol:
What? :lol: sis I write a traumatizing post about me eating seafood , seeking your help and instead you ignore my post and drag me :lol:

Mods, remove his vegan thread privileges, he’s a bully :P
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Postby BeeBoy » Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:09 pm

aRat wrote:Yall need to repent. Octopuses, dolphins and most whales are just as intelligent and "aware" as most higher evolved land animals.
Neither of the animals you listed are fish though :lol: of course dolphins or whales are a different story, they are mammals :lol:
I'm not saying they are not affected. I just have less empathy towards fish as they are different to other animals we consume
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Postby MusicRecords » Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:12 pm

BeeBoy wrote:
aRat wrote:Yall need to repent. Octopuses, dolphins and most whales are just as intelligent and "aware" as most higher evolved land animals.
Neither of the animals you listed are fish though :lol: of course dolphins or whales are a different story, they are mammals :lol:
I'm not saying they are not affected. I just have less empathy towards fish as they are different to other animals we consume
I think he meant sea creatures in general

But nonetheless, I believe anyone who considers themselves vegetarian or vegan should not be eating any creature from the water/sea. I once met this girl who claimed she was vegetarian although she ate white meat/fish and I thought it was total BS. There’s a word for that and it’s called pecetarian
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Postby aRat » Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:03 pm

BeeBoy wrote:
aRat wrote:Yall need to repent. Octopuses, dolphins and most whales are just as intelligent and "aware" as most higher evolved land animals.
Neither of the animals you listed are fish though :lol: of course dolphins or whales are a different story, they are mammals :lol:
I'm not saying they are not affected. I just have less empathy towards fish as they are different to other animals we consume
I meant sea creatures in general. Dolphins and whales are hunted too (directly and indirectly) by the way.
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Postby Serby » Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:05 pm

MusicRecords wrote:What? :lol: sis I write a traumatizing post about me eating seafood , seeking your help and instead you ignore my post and drag me :lol:

Mods, remove his vegan thread privileges, he’s a bully :P
Tbh this was response to carbon, but also quoted you cuz you commented on it. :lol: kinda proves my point, ooop! :lol: :P

Response to the fish post comig a bit later!
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Postby Serby » Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:31 pm

MusicRecords wrote:
...

Could this kind of feeling and understanding mean I have potential to become vegetarian? (Ok I know all humans have the “potential” but u know what I mean)
Serby sis make me feel better please, I need u
I think you should try find something positive about this negative experience. Obvs it sucks you ate something you are against, but at the same time, but you didn't do it on purpose so my advice is to simply get over it as you don't plan to start consuming fish suddenly and mistakes like this happen sometimes!

The way you reacted tells you imo a lot about yourself and that here is some empathy involved. You obviously give a certain value and have respect for sea life, so a helpful question for you to ask yourself now is, what is it in the sea life that makes them precious and worth a life and is it any different to other animals we consume? You recognize something in marine life and therefore take them into consideration when it comes to your food choices.

All in all, dont beat yourself up as it was not your intention and being more careful next time, by questioning the food you were offered, is a good thing to do. :D
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Postby Serby » Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:39 pm

New poll is up!
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Postby DnBLover » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:41 am

Can we please stop comparing eating dogs to eating cows and other herbivores? It makes no sense.

"An international team of researchers led by the University of Granada (UGR) has explained for the first time the scientific basis of the old Spanish saying 'perro no come perro' (dog eats no dog): for a carnivorous animal, eating carrion of another carnivore, especially if it is of the same species, increases the probability of contracting pathogens that could endanger its life. (...)
Prions such as the virulent kuru, which, in the 1950s, ended the lives of many natives of Papua New Guinea who practiced cannibalism rituals, are examples of such pathogens."
https://www.google.com/amp/s/phys.org/n ... seases.amp

Plus some interesting points raised on Quota on where we don't eat carnivores.

"1. The muscular structure of carnivores is usually tough and stringy because they recieve more excercise (trying to catch food) so not good for digestion

2. Usually all carnivores are full of parasites.

3. They are regarded as bush meat, and all of them are treated either as threatened or disease carrying animals, even if they are a heterogeneous group, with endangerement and disease risk varying much between species.

4. Scientific example :
Energy from the sun gets turned into food by plants. But we can't use most of that energy because our digestive system isn't designed for it. So we let buffalo eat the plants, and their digestive system breaks the plant matter into meat, which makes the energy way more available to us. In the process, energy is lost: the buffalo use some of it to move around and grow parts that we don't/can't eat, and some of it is lost to inefficiency. That buffalo meat is at the maximum of availability to humans already. Feeding it to a mountain lion doesn't make the energy easier for us to use, and all the same losses of energy that happened from grass to buffalo happen from buffalo to mountain lion. So you lose a lot but gain nothing.

5. Some poisonous things bioaccumulate. The easiest example is mercury in fish. Invertebrates like shrimp absorb the mercury as they eat, and it gets stored in their tissues. Then fish eat those inverts and the mercury gets stored in their tissues. Since the fish eat a lot of shrimp, they get a lot of mercury. Then bigger predatory fish like swordfish eat those fish and the mercury content just keeps accumulating. Since predators are at the top of the food chain, anything that can't be metabolized and removed ends up in their bodies. So sometimes carnivore meat can contain more toxins like mercury than meat from lower on the food chain, but it greatly depends on what animal it is. Fish are worse because there are usually more steps between the bottom and the top, where most land predators go from plant to herbivore to apex carnivore pretty quick.

6. As others have pointed out, carnivores are more likely to be "keystone species" - that is, a species that has a proportionally greater impact on their environment than others. For example, there are a lot of things that eat grass: rabbits, deer, tons of insects like grasshoppers... If you remove rabbits entirely, there will be plenty of things to eat the grass and keep it under control. But not a whole lot of things eat rabbits. So if you remove one of the main predators, like coyotes, the rabbit population is going to increase dramatically, which is not so good for all the things competing with them to eat grass.

9. Also Dog/ cat might be high in Purine which causes Gout but that is separate from them being carnivores.

As far as your health goes, the higher up the food chain you go, the more environmental toxins accumulate, too. Pesticide ingestion, mercury, lead, a herbivore absorbs a limited quantity of these. The carnivore eating the herbivores gets many times that amount, because the carnivore eats many herbivores."
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-it-that-hu ... s-wildcats
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Postby aRat » Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:43 pm



Serby is a mess for this.
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Postby MusicRecords » Wed Dec 26, 2018 3:57 pm

aRat wrote:

Serby is a mess for this.
Mess :lol: he should’ve been more realistic and just put an egg yoke to keep it PG

Children are too young to decide if they want a vegan diet or not, let them choose later and don’t throw your meat-ophobe ideas to them :roll:
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Postby DnBLover » Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:12 pm

^no they're not. Plus they should eat whatever their parents feed them, provided it is healthy.
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Postby MusicRecords » Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:29 pm

DnBLover wrote:^no they're not. Plus they should eat whatever their parents feed them, provided it is healthy.
Blah blah
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Postby Carbon » Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:44 pm

Why is this “throwing meat-phobe ideas”, but raising kids to eat meat is not “throwing meat-eating ideas”? Because it’s a majority ideology, it’s fine?

That said, I’m still undecided about vegetarianism and veganism in children cause tbh I’m just not that informed to have an opinion. Serby feel free to educate me on this. :lol: from my layman knowledge so far, I’d say it’s probably better to feed them meat in early childhood, but again, maybe that’s also something we’re just taught and rarely question.
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Postby Rihab » Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:12 pm

Had an unexpectedly great experience at church yesterday. Our pastor chose to go off about excessive meat consumption during his annual christmas sermon, it was absolutely glorious. :lol: :lol:

Religion is usually not for me, but I always agree to attend that specific service with my family cause the pastor mostly uses it to drag society. And not in the typical ‘you are all going to hell for being homosexual and having abortions’ way, but for letting refugees drown in the Mediterranean, doing too little to stop climate change and stuff like that. Yesterday he talked about something called eschatological (?) peace for 20 minutes, how we’re ruining it by mass murdering animals and how all that meat wrapped in plastic is making us and the planet sick, it was great.

Most people clapped or gave standing ovations after he was done with his rant, I was very pleasantly surprised. I feel like so many people would like to eat less meat, but just fail to break their habits. Ofc some fat carnivores weren’t having it and looked like they were about to explode from high blood pressure right then and there, but I’m pretty confident they’ll die out sooner or later (probably sooner). Society as a whole is moving on.
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Postby Carbon » Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:44 pm

^ wish the priests and their sermons were that good here.

imagine how many people could be influenced in a good way if priests spoke of protecting the environment instead of protecting unborn children or straight marriage :lol:
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Postby Benjamin » Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:12 pm

I've been eating meat my entire life (31 years). I used to eat a lot of meat, especially burgers. Now, ever since a couple of months, i've been thinking about my meat consumption and the effects it has (meat consumption in general) on the environment. I've been trying out vegan food and I like it.

I think i'm going to eat less and less actual meat and start replacing it with alternatives. In my mind I feel like I want to stop eating meat completely, because I feel with all the alternatives, we don't really need to eat actual meat anymore. It's something that i'm going to explore in 2019, it's kind of my new year's resolution.

I want to feel good (mind and body) about what i consume. I think it's important to be aware of what you eat. I'm a little nervous, but also kind of excited. I feel good about this.
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Postby Thriller » Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:27 pm

Go for it Benjamin! I’ll still be queuing in McDonald’s.
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Postby Serby » Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:33 pm

Great to hear that and what a great NY resolution! :D

If youfeel like it, this could be very helpful. It's for free and you can ask any question that comes to your mind.

https://veganuary.com

Or:

https://www.challenge22.com/challenge22/

I'm sure you can find much inspiration and new ideas there should you ever feel like it. Also feel free to ask me for any advices or help. :D
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Postby MusicRecords » Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:34 pm

I have a traumatizing experience again a few days ago and it’s almsot making me turn to a vegetarian diet again....help
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Postby aRat » Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:37 pm

Thriller wrote:Go for it Benjamin! I’ll still be queuing in McDonald’s.
Next on things you should never admit to others.

McDonLARD's is just ... ewwww.

Local Burger restaurants are much better than that thing.
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Postby Serby » Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:40 pm

MusicRecords wrote:I have a traumatizing experience again a few days ago and it’s almsot making me turn to a vegetarian diet again....help
You could let your guard down and see if going vegeterian would bring you more of the positive or negative.

I remember really well feeling scared, for the lack of better word. The idea of giving up something for good was terryfing back then, but then I just tried and it worked. Listen to your guts, they seem to be sending you signals. :wink:
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Postby trebor » Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:42 pm

@Benjamin
Great! I'm pretty sure you can do it! Best of luck! <3
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Postby Serby » Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:42 pm

Rihab wrote:Had an unexpectedly great experience at church yesterday. Our pastor chose to go off about excessive meat consumption during his annual christmas sermon, it was absolutely glorious. :lol: :lol:

...
Omg sounds great actually. :o :D
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