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Postby TheRealest » Wed May 16, 2018 10:05 pm

Stop explaining to these hating hoes sis. They lost.
Last edited by TheRealest on Wed May 16, 2018 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby BodyShop » Wed May 16, 2018 10:05 pm

Jeez :lol:
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Postby EAI » Wed May 16, 2018 10:06 pm

KEY9481 wrote:Mariah is basically seen by the GP as a running gag since 2005. That's how you ruin your legacy, ladies and gentlemen.
?
F*ck off and lose my number.
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Postby EAI » Wed May 16, 2018 10:07 pm

TheRealest wrote:Stop explaining to these hating hoes sis. They lost.
Something about Madonna and Beyonce stans won't let them appreciate other females. Like why so insecure?

Alot of the hate is so baseless and tired.
F*ck off and lose my number.
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Postby MrLeonix » Wed May 16, 2018 10:13 pm

EAI wrote:
TheRealest wrote:Stop explaining to these hating hoes sis. They lost.
Something about Madonna and Beyonce stans won't let them appreciate other females. Like why so insecure?

Alot of the hate is so baseless and tired.
Dude just because someone doesn't pretend her UK popularity was as big as in the US doesn't mean that person is insecure and can't appreciate other females :lol:

You guys go nuts over something that is basically non-debatable. She was bigger in US than she was in UK period, there's nothing wrong with that.
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Postby stevyy » Wed May 16, 2018 10:45 pm

MrLeonix wrote:
EAI wrote:
TheRealest wrote:Stop explaining to these hating hoes sis. They lost.
Something about Madonna and Beyonce stans won't let them appreciate other females. Like why so insecure?

Alot of the hate is so baseless and tired.
Dude just because someone doesn't pretend her UK popularity was as big as in the US doesn't mean that person is insecure and can't appreciate other females :lol:

You guys go nuts over something that is basically non-debatable. She was bigger in US than she was in UK period, there's nothing wrong with that.
and she was bigger in Japan than in the US... this arbitrary pitting countries against one another is ridiculous... almost no US female was able to be as successful in the UK as in the US.

What the UK is to Madonna, what France is to Céline is Japan to Mariah. (and South Korea and Taiwan).

Mariah's albums sales by country:

01 - 70,800,000 - USA
--
02 - 18,040,000 - Japan
03 - 7,600,000 - United Kingdom
04 - 5,120,000 - Canada
05 - 4,800,000 - France
06 - 4,280,000 - Germany
07 - 3,970,000 - South Korea
08 - 2,930,000 - Australia
09 - 2,295,000 - Taiwan
10 - 2,270,000 - Italy
-- 51,305,000 --

11 - 1,955,000 - Brazil
12 - 1,875,000 - Netherlands
13 - 1,450,000 - Spain
14 - 1,210,000 - Indonesia
15 - 1,080,000 - Malaysia
16 - 920,000 - Singapore
17 - 895,000 - Mexico
18 - 875,000 - Phillippines
19 - 810,000 - Sweden
20 - 760,000 - Hong Kong
-- 11,830,000-- // 63,135,000
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Postby hellohello » Wed May 16, 2018 10:47 pm

You tell em hoes Stevvy.. :lol:
Madonna......Rihanna....Beyonce....Michael...Janet....Prince...Mariah...Whitney
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Postby menime123 » Wed May 16, 2018 10:57 pm

EAI wrote:
TheRealest wrote:Stop explaining to these hating hoes sis. They lost.
Something about Madonna and Beyonce stans won't let them appreciate other females. Like why so insecure?

Alot of the hate is so baseless and tired.
As a Madonna fan I’m secure with my love for Madonna and I don’t need to disrespect any other other artist to make my love for Madonna stronger.

Female artists I stan for:

Madonna
Kylie
Britney
Christina
Adele
Beyoncé
Spice Girls
Girls Aloud
Debbie Harry (but only as Blondie)
Kate Bush
Celine Dion
Cheryl Cole
Geri Halliwell

Don’t tell me I don’t appreciate females - 99.9% of my listening history is females - and that other 0.1% is mainly MJ and JT (though I’m branching out to Prince nowadays).

But I will not censor an opinion - my posts on this forum confirm that. I mean, I even slag off Madonna’s music if I think it’s crap (particularly most things released in 1989).

So to dismiss any opinions I or anyone shares simply because of who we are big fans of is stupid. We all come here to express opinions on music and culture and discuss and debate. Engage if you have something to add to the conversation, read something you want to challenge or simply understand reasons behind an opinion.

But understand that someone having an opinion you disagree with is not to express hate.
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Postby menime123 » Wed May 16, 2018 10:58 pm

MrLeonix wrote:
EAI wrote:
TheRealest wrote:Stop explaining to these hating hoes sis. They lost.
Something about Madonna and Beyonce stans won't let them appreciate other females. Like why so insecure?

Alot of the hate is so baseless and tired.
Dude just because someone doesn't pretend her UK popularity was as big as in the US doesn't mean that person is insecure and can't appreciate other females :lol:

You guys go nuts over something that is basically non-debatable. She was bigger in US than she was in UK period, there's nothing wrong with that.
Someone gets it <3
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Postby spiritboy » Wed May 16, 2018 11:01 pm

Wayne wrote:
spiritboy wrote:Yeah i'd say people are indifferent towards Mariah rather than hate her. Out of the big 5, Janet and Madonna received the most hate. Janet got a lot of hate during SP controversy. Madonna is hated 7/24 by media, other diva fans and religious people. I don't think anyone hates Mariah apart from a few online music fans.
The media doesn't hate Madonna.

I'd say both her and Mariah are about par in terms of how the public thinks of them.
Really? Because even in 1993, Smash Hits called her a Grandma. UK tabloids has always been nasty towards her except for the period when she was married to Guy Ritchie.
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Postby menime123 » Wed May 16, 2018 11:15 pm

stevyy wrote:the crazy thing is that Mariah is given different standards than other females. Suddenly, she is supposed to mirror her success in the US in other places and failed to do so in the UK, but surpassed her US fame in Japan which ironically is ignored and doesn't count.

The woman did not emulate her US success in the UK and yet sold enough LPs to make the country's Top 10 - alltime among females. What an embarrassing feature to have.
What I think you fail to understand Stevvy is that we’re not discussing sales and statistics, but cultural impact. Sales doesn’t make Mariah a cultural icon in the UK. If doesn’t make her a huge star here by default. I’m not saying Mariah isn’t a star, but people don’t revere her here in the UK.

She may be in the top 10 selling female list in the UK, but that means nothing in the context of this discussion, particularly when U.K. sales are generally male orientated - plus Mariah has had a 30 year career in order to achieve her sales: eventually it’s going to add up for any pop star.

I’m not dragging her, but simply stating that as a pop star, she remains a pop star that over the last decade has failed to achieve commercial success here with new releases - and is generally known now in the U.K. for 1 Christmas song. It is what it is.

She isn’t like Tina, Rihanna, Beyoncé or Madonna and sold out stadiums here. That is star power. Mariah isn’t at that level of stardom in the UK and her celebrity status isn’t as high (for example, very little about her private life ever makes headlines here).

She isn’t a cultural phenomenon here in the same way she is else where in the world and there is nothing wrong with that - no one is trying to diminish anything she has achieved here, but simply make a commentary on her star power and the currency of her celebrity.
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Postby menime123 » Wed May 16, 2018 11:15 pm

spiritboy wrote:
Wayne wrote:
spiritboy wrote:Yeah i'd say people are indifferent towards Mariah rather than hate her. Out of the big 5, Janet and Madonna received the most hate. Janet got a lot of hate during SP controversy. Madonna is hated 7/24 by media, other diva fans and religious people. I don't think anyone hates Mariah apart from a few online music fans.
The media doesn't hate Madonna.

I'd say both her and Mariah are about par in terms of how the public thinks of them.
Really? Because even in 1993, Smash Hits called her a Grandma. UK tabloids has always been nasty towards her except for the period when she was married to Guy Ritchie.
Let’s not kid ourselves, you’re glossing over the Kabbalah AL years :lol:
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Postby spiritboy » Wed May 16, 2018 11:20 pm

Which were pretty boring imo :lol:

But having witnessed the Erotica-era backlash, it was everything. None of the big 5 and today's pop stars could've survived that. She was the most hated woman on the planet. :lol:
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Postby spiritboy » Wed May 16, 2018 11:24 pm

As for Mariah, people give her little credit but she was one of the first mainstream female artists (maybe the first) to feature rappers in her songs. She also made Pop/R&B ballads popular, i remember My All being a huge single. People say she is a joke but if being a joke means selling 250m+ records and having millions of $s, i'll gladly be a joke :lol:
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Postby Eamon » Wed May 16, 2018 11:31 pm

EAI wrote:
TheRealest wrote:Stop explaining to these hating hoes sis. They lost.
Something about Madonna and Beyonce stans won't let them appreciate other females. Like why so insecure?

Alot of the hate is so baseless and tired.
Beyonce stans are jealous cause their fave steals writing credits, needs spectacles to generate attention for her album releases because she couldn’t rely on legitimate means of getting hits back when she was only early 30’s. Great she can put on a show and perform but her career statistics pale in comparison to these other legends that she’s supposedly (but is not in reality) in their league. Mariah outsold, outsang, outwrote, outproduced their fave and that will always leave them pressed. Her music is timeless and will stand the test of time. Beyonce’s dancing and performing is cute and all but in 50 years no one will care as her discography just doesn’t have the substance and legitimacy both she and they desperately crave.
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Postby TIfan » Wed May 16, 2018 11:35 pm

I am getting my life to this.. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby stevyy » Wed May 16, 2018 11:38 pm

menime123 wrote:
stevyy wrote:the crazy thing is that Mariah is given different standards than other females. Suddenly, she is supposed to mirror her success in the US in other places and failed to do so in the UK, but surpassed her US fame in Japan which ironically is ignored and doesn't count.

The woman did not emulate her US success in the UK and yet sold enough LPs to make the country's Top 10 - alltime among females. What an embarrassing feature to have.
What I think you fail to understand Stevvy is that we’re not discussing sales and statistics, but cultural impact. Sales doesn’t make Mariah a cultural icon in the UK. If doesn’t make her a huge star here by default. I’m not saying Mariah isn’t a star, but people don’t revere her here in the UK.

She may be in the top 10 selling female list in the UK, but that means nothing in the context of this discussion, particularly when U.K. sales are generally male orientated - plus Mariah has had a 30 year career in order to achieve her sales: eventually it’s going to add up for any pop star.

I’m not dragging her, but simply stating that as a pop star, she remains a pop star that over the last decade has failed to achieve commercial success here with new releases - and is generally known now in the U.K. for 1 Christmas song. It is what it is.

She isn’t like Tina, Rihanna, Beyoncé or Madonna and sold out stadiums here. That is star power. Mariah isn’t at that level of stardom in the UK and her celebrity status isn’t as high (for example, very little about her private life ever makes headlines here).

She isn’t a cultural phenomenon here in the same way she is else where in the world and there is nothing wrong with that - no one is trying to diminish anything she has achieved here, but simply make a commentary on her star power and the currency of her celebrity.
I disagree with your judgement of her position as a cultural icon in the UK. Mariah is the definition of a vocalist in the UK. She has had HUGE hit singles throughout her career.

It is something else that her biggest single is held against her in the UK... that's illogical, don't you think? Especially since several of her singles have been covered by other acts who got #1 singles with the covers, Hero being the most successful one.

Every female casting show vocalist cites her as an influence.

Mariah has a very hard time in Germany, but even here she is the pinnacle of vocal acrobatics and every casting show contestant who tries to emulate her gets the stink eye from the judges who reference Mariah and that's in Germany - a place where she is truly disliked by the GP.

Saying she left no mark in the UK is like saying Madonna left no mark in Japan. I also don't get why your illogical view singles out Mariah and none of the other vocal divas who stopped being relevant on the singles chart since the turn of the millennium. But that again would be an argument that you would dismiss because it intertwines impact with commercial appeal. + I don't want Wayne to scratch my eyes out by stating how Céline can still sell albums while Mariah has 1 uncertified album in her discography.

you simply have to admit to not liking Mariah Carey and then we can agree to disagree but as long as you suggest you are speaking for 66 million Brits, i refute whatever comes out of your mouth.
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Postby Rihab » Wed May 16, 2018 11:46 pm

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Postby TIfan » Wed May 16, 2018 11:52 pm

Unpopular opinion:

Diva fans are not as bad as sports fans. I've never seen Diva fans get in a fist fight over who is the best.
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Postby menime123 » Wed May 16, 2018 11:54 pm

stevyy wrote:

I disagree with your judgement of her position as a cultural icon in the UK. Mariah is the definition of a vocalist in the UK. She has had HUGE hit singles throughout her career.

It is something else that her biggest single is held against her in the UK... that's illogical, don't you think? Especially since several of her singles have been covered by other acts who got #1 singles with the covers, Hero being the most successful one.

Every female casting show vocalist cites her as an influence.

Mariah has a very hard time in Germany, but even here she is the pinnacle of vocal acrobatics and every casting show contestant who tries to emulate her gets the stink eye from the judges who reference Mariah and that's in Germany - a place where she is truly disliked by the GP.

Saying she left no mark in the UK is like saying Madonna left no mark in Japan. I also don't get why your illogical view singles out Mariah and none of the other vocal divas who stopped being relevant on the singles chart since the turn of the millennium. But that again would be an argument that you would dismiss because it intertwines impact with commercial appeal. + I don't want Wayne to scratch my eyes out by stating how Céline can still sell albums while Mariah has 1 uncertified album in her discography.

you simply have to admit to not liking Mariah Carey and then we can agree to disagree but as long as you suggest you are speaking for 66 million Brits, i refute whatever comes out of your mouth.
Respectfully you don’t live in the UK, so you really can’t judge what her position is as a star here is. No one denies Mariah is known as a vocalist, but she isn’t the inspiration of many young women coming up on talent shows nowadays - so that’s an outdated reference. But she has not had many huge hits here in the UK.

The only other vocal diva I would compare Mariah to is Whitney and Whitney is dead, so it would be a bit pointless to compare the two. Celine imo is a different type of star - in that I feel Celine doesn’t court fame or celebrity and is more interested in just getting out there and performing constantly.

You can refute my comments and I won’t speak for 66 million Brits - but I will speak for the 59 million that never bought her albums :lol:

However if you check my history on this forum, I do like Mariah - I really enjoy TEOM and her first album. Plus MC. So this has absolutely nothing to do with me disliking her - I don’t mind Mariah and had I the time, I’d have seen her Christmas shows in London last year as AIWFCIS is my favourite Christmas song.
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Postby stevyy » Thu May 17, 2018 12:20 am

wow, menime can speak for 59 million people... that's huge.
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Postby BodyShop » Thu May 17, 2018 12:21 am

I absolutely love how people sums up everything with a simple "you dont like 'x' artist ,thats why', whenever you have a negative opinion on an act that is not your absolutely fave.
That's something REALLY mature :lol:
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Postby stevyy » Thu May 17, 2018 12:25 am

BodyShop wrote:I absolutely love how people sums up everything with a simple "you dont like 'x' artist ,thats why', whenever you have a negative opinion on an act that is not your absolutely fave.
That's something REALLY mature :lol:
there is a difference between having a negative opinion and claiming you can reason for 59 million people.

+ claiming that one of the most influental and successful female recording artists never had "many big hits" in her 3rd biggest country is a bit... funny.

at one point you have to question somone's integrity when the claims are that outrageous.
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Postby BodyShop » Thu May 17, 2018 12:40 am

stevyy wrote:
BodyShop wrote:I absolutely love how people sums up everything with a simple "you dont like 'x' artist ,thats why', whenever you have a negative opinion on an act that is not your absolutely fave.
That's something REALLY mature :lol:
there is a difference between having a negative opinion and claiming you can reason for 59 million people.

+ claiming that one of the most influental and successful female recording artists never had "many big hits" in her 3rd biggest country is a bit... funny.

at one point you have to question somone's integrity when the claims are that outrageous.
You cherry-picked certsin points of what was said by both Leonix and Menime.
No one denied Mariah's fame nor her success but they said she isn't as big a star as the other ones there nor has she ever enough star power as a cultural phenomenon to sell out a stadium ,for example.
I'm sorry but you were the one to confront everything that was said to explain why they don't consider Mariah as this huge mega star you think she is in the UK with a simple "you don't like her,I get it now".
Thing is,Stevvy,there trolls -those who spread hate and biased opinions- and there are those with a contrary opinion based on many things ,including their personal views/experience.
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Postby TheRealest » Thu May 17, 2018 12:48 am

TIfan wrote:Unpopular opinion:

Diva fans are not as bad as sports fans. I've never seen Diva fans get in a fist fight over who is the best.
Child they are a MESSSSSS
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