124th FSC (Sep 2017): Cologne, Germany | Ergebnisse| Results

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Postby CandyPerfumeBoy » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:18 pm

Seems like I misunderstood one rule all those years, but I want to take it up now (though not complain about the entry but maybe open a discussion to make this rule clearer).

It's about Ecuador's entry. I understood the rules as if at least half of the group must come from Ecuador which means 2 members of a group consisting of four people or three in a group consisting of five people. In this case it's only 25% of the band from Ecuador according to my logic. That's why I chose in the past to not enter a band for a specific country.
Again, I don't want leomedar to change his entry but just clarify the rules for future entries.

And how does this rule work with collaborations? We had a discussion about Röyksopp feat. Robyn which was only eligible for Norway and not Sweden because the majority of the entry is from Norway. What happens if three solo artists collaborate from three different nations? Can I choose any of the three or isn't that particular song eligible because there won't be half of the artist (but only a third of the artists) from one country?

Thank you
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Postby Mainshow » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:37 pm

CandyPerfumeBoy wrote:Seems like I misunderstood one rule all those years, but I want to take it up now (though not complain about the entry but maybe open a discussion to make this rule clearer).

It's about Ecuador's entry. I understood the rules as if at least half of the group must come from Ecuador which means 2 members of a group consisting of four people or three in a group consisting of five people. In this case it's only 25% of the band from Ecuador according to my logic. That's why I chose in the past to not enter a band for a specific country.
Again, I don't want leomedar to change his entry but just clarify the rules for future entries.

And how does this rule work with collaborations? We had a discussion about Röyksopp feat. Robyn which was only eligible for Norway and not Sweden because the majority of the entry is from Norway. What happens if three solo artists collaborate from three different nations? Can I choose any of the three or isn't that particular song eligible because there won't be half of the artist (but only a third of the artists) from one country?

Thank you
I think that Grybop or jio should be the ones clarifying this since they ran this game for months/years and were in charge when most of the rules came into force.
BUT it has always been like this that at least half of the people need to be from the country you want them to represent, featurings and collaborations included (I think). That's why the Röyksopp (2 people from Norway) feat. Robyn (1 person from Sweden) had to be chosen for Norway. This track as the Swedish entry would have harmed the rules.
This rule only comes in force when there is a majority of nationalities. If there's none, the user can choose the country (regardless the number of people involved).

So, if Marco Mengoni, Lena and Loreen release a collaboration, you can choose if you want to mark it as an Italian, German or Swedish entry.

(Personally, I would choose the country of the artist which had the most input or so, e.g. I chose Azerbaijan this month (instead of Romania) because Amira is singing like 90% of the track).
Last edited by Mainshow on Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby trebor » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:45 pm

^^
The featured artist does never set the country of origin. The main act/project/DJ is the country of origin; and the featured act that provides vocals; etc. is not of importance!
//
CNCO:
It has to established what source is valid. The PR release states that they are from Ecuador, Mexico, Cuba, Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico (US). However, Christopher marketed as Ecuadorian was born In New York; and Richard (Dominican) was born in New Jersey. With Zabadiel from Puerto Rico the ratio is 3/5 for an US origin.
In this specific case, I don't really care and the entry may stay as it is.
Last edited by trebor on Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Grybop » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:50 pm

Mainshow wrote:This rule only comes in force when there is a majority of nationalities. If there's none, the user can choose the country (and it doesn't many if there's 1, 2, 3 or even more people involved).
This.

If all members come from different countries, the act in question can represent any of those countries, I also think we've had such an act in the past.
My personal opinion is that it represent the country where the act is based, but we needn't go that far.

trebor wrote:The featured artist does never set the country of origin. The main act/project/DJ is the country of origin; and the featured act that provides vocals; etc. is not of importance!
I'm afraid there have been examples of a collaboration representing the country of the featured artist. So both nationalities are of importance.
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Postby Grybop » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:53 pm

I love how the Röyksopp / Robyn collab has become a landmark for this game :lol:
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Postby CandyPerfumeBoy » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:56 pm

Thank you so much for clarifying :)

Now I'm a bit mad about myself for not entering "Lean on" back in the day :P
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Postby trebor » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:59 pm

Grybop wrote:I'm afraid there have been examples of a collaboration representing the country of the featured artist. So both nationalities are of importance.
I know that this has been let slip in the past.
I absolutely do not agree with allowing featured artists to set the country of origin. I know I am in the minority but I will stick to my opinion! :wink: <3
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Postby CandyPerfumeBoy » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:01 pm

trebor wrote:
Grybop wrote:I'm afraid there have been examples of a collaboration representing the country of the featured artist. So both nationalities are of importance.
I know that this has been let slip in the past.
I absolutely do not agree with allowing featured artists to set the country of origin. I know I am in the minority but I will stick to my opinion! :wink: <3
I'm with you trebor on this one :)
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Postby Grybop » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:12 pm

trebor wrote:^^

CNCO:
It has to established what source is valid. The PR release states that they are from Ecuador, Mexico, Cuba, Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico (US). However, Christopher marketed as Ecuadorian was born In New York; and Richard (Dominican) was born in New Jersey. With Zabadiel from Puerto Rico the ratio is 3/5 for an US origin.
In this specific case, I don't really care and the entry may stay as it is.
Christopher may be Ecuadorian though. Then we have Puerto Rico, which is considered US territory indeed.

From Wikipedia:
wikipedia wrote:Christopher Vélez

Christopher Bryant Vélez Muñoz nació el 23 de noviembre de 1995 (21 años), en Nueva Jersey, Estados Unidos. Cuando cumplió tres años de edad se mudó junto a su familia a Loja, Ecuador. Al cumplir 18 años volvió a Nueva Jersey para trabajar.

Richard Camacho

Richard Yashel Camacho Puello nació el 22 de enero de 1997 (20 años), en Nueva York, Estados Unidos y es de origen dominicano. Vivió sus primeros diez años en República Dominicana y tiene dos hermanos menores.

Erick Colón

Erick Brian Colón Arista nació el 3 de enero de 2001 (16 años),5​ en la Habana, Cuba.6​ Es cantante, compositor, guitarrista, entre otros. Emigró a Tampa, Florida, Estados Unidos con su familia. Actualmente sigue estudiando, recibiendo clases en línea.

Joel Pimentel

Joel Pimentel de León nació el 28 de febrero de 1999 (18 años), en Hesperia, California, Estados Unidos, con ascendencia mexicana. Joel es el segundo de cuatro hijos. Terminó sus estudios en 2016.

Zabdiel de Jesús

Zabdiel de Jesús Cólon nació el 13 de diciembre de 1997 (19 años), en Bayamón (Puerto Rico).
Judging by this, yes, the act should represent the US, because the nationalities of the members are unclear. And let's face it, it's a Simon Cowell creation, of course he'd pass US citizens as Latin-Americans for the purpose of his show :lol:
Anyway, it's up to Mainshow really. He's the host :P
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Postby Grybop » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:16 pm

CandyPerfumeBoy wrote:
trebor wrote:
Grybop wrote:I'm afraid there have been examples of a collaboration representing the country of the featured artist. So both nationalities are of importance.
I know that this has been let slip in the past.
I absolutely do not agree with allowing featured artists to set the country of origin. I know I am in the minority but I will stick to my opinion! :wink: <3
I'm with you trebor on this one :)
This is how I see it:

I consider the collab as a band. Then check the nationality of the members. The majority gets to be represented.
This also solves the cases where there is no clear featured artist (credited acts are linked with words such as "and" or "with" or "vs.")

We could add a poll, if you'd like.
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Postby Mainshow » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:25 pm

I'll just repost what I wrote some months or a year ago:
I think we already have enough rules and there is no problem at the moment when we take that (how many people are part of the act rule). So why do we have to specify it and make it even more complicated?
This is just a game for fun and tbh, it should not get even stricter.

Concerning Ecuador:
I checked the English Wikipedia page and all members were listed as coming from differenr countries. Also, we don't have a "born there rule" either.
Plus, Puerto Rico might count for the US but we also let allow other autonomous territories participate in the past, e.g. Iraqi Kurdistan, Palestine, Kosovo (more or less), Faroe Islands,...

So I considered the band members to be from different countries as well as lemoedar, Grybop and I don't think that anyone wants me to double or triple check many sources.

Plus nationality =/= citizenship =/= birth place =/= origin

So, like I previously mentioned: Ecuador is valid.
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Postby westhammer » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:03 pm

Whatever about Ecuador, now Shane Filan/Nadine Coyle for Ireland on top of Troye Sivan? I'm entering Carly Rae Jespen for Canada next month :lol:
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Postby Grybop » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:11 pm

:lol: :lol:
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Postby cheapthrills » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:53 pm

westhammer wrote:Whatever about Ecuador, now Shane Filan/Nadine Coyle for Ireland on top of Troye Sivan? I'm entering Carly Rae Jespen for Canada next month :lol:
I had a dear friend pass away last September. He loved Shane Filan. Choosing that song was my way of honoring his memory on the anniversary.

I might add that neither of those two have had any impact here in the US. A common household name to you might not be one for everyone. I would never have ever heard of Shane Filan without my wonderful friend. That said, I will drop my entry for Ireland since I don't want any issues.
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Postby Affillate » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:52 pm

Cheap thrills you should keep your entry, no one had an issue with me doing a mark feehily song that sat just outside the UK top 40 a few months ago, and it ended up just shy of winning by one point. Plus the examples of Usher, Shakira, etc.

I think the 'too famous' thing isn't really a rule it's more of an indication, If the song is one that's outside the US/UK top 40 it's eligible, according to the rules. It's more about choosing a song that isn't already widely known to make it a bit more interesting than people attributing votes based on the popular reputation of the artist/song or personal knowledge as well (which the top 40 rule does help with somewhat).

Adding to that it might even be the case where the artist is widely known but the song chosen is fresh to the other contestants due to it peaking outside the top 40. (I certainly haven't heard your entry and I've heard most of westlifes stuff and a bit of girls aloud). That being said it's a 'solo' work by those artists so that makes it kinda more under the radar as well somewhat.
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Postby westhammer » Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:15 pm

While I can see your point, the whole idea behind the contest is to discover new artists. If it were the case of songs that have never reached the Top 40 then we could just enter famous artists album tracks.

I agree with Magnus point that if you have previously had a Top 40 single then you shouldn't be eligible but that's just my take.
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Postby cheapthrills » Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:57 am

I removed the entry. I'll admit that I am taking this personally since my entry was a particularly emotional selection. However, I don't think bashing my choice was helpful or necessary because singling it out is inconsistent with previous contests.

As Affillate mentioned, no one said anything when it was Markus Feehily, who is also from Westlife, a couple months ago. No one is mentioning Falco this month. We had artists last month who'd had some top 40 success, including my entry; no one said anything then either. When Loreen was included a couple months ago, most people, including me, were ok with keeping her in the comp. So it feels like the whole "new artist" concept is relative and rather nebulous.

As a solo artist, Shane's support seems to be quite localized, specific to the UK /Ireland where he has only managed one top 20 song on his own. That localized support is akin to some previous FSC winners I've seen that charted in the top ten of 5 or 6 select countries.

I believe my choice followed the rules. As far as I am concerned, Shane's work as a solo artist is distinct from that of his former band and that is the work I was choosing to highlight. I stand by my choice even though I've removed it.
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Postby Grybop » Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:14 am

cheapthrills wrote:However, I don't think bashing my choice was helpful or necessary
I don't think anyone meant to "bash" your perfectly eligible choice. After the Ecuadorian entry nitpicking, Ray saying something so random was very funny IMO, hope you didn't take offence in that.
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Postby jio » Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:22 am

Grybop wrote:
CandyPerfumeBoy wrote:
trebor wrote:
Grybop wrote:I'm afraid there have been examples of a collaboration representing the country of the featured artist. So both nationalities are of importance.
I know that this has been let slip in the past.
I absolutely do not agree with allowing featured artists to set the country of origin. I know I am in the minority but I will stick to my opinion! :wink: <3
I'm with you trebor on this one :)
This is how I see it:

I consider the collab as a band. Then check the nationality of the members. The majority gets to be represented.
This also solves the cases where there is no clear featured artist (credited acts are linked with words such as "and" or "with" or "vs.")

We could add a poll, if you'd like.
But if you consider the collab as a band then most of the band's members are from Romania and not Azerbaijan (I make the assumption here that Akce has more than 1 member).
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Postby Mainshow » Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:55 am

jio wrote:
Grybop wrote:This is how I see it:

I consider the collab as a band. Then check the nationality of the members. The majority gets to be represented.
This also solves the cases where there is no clear featured artist (credited acts are linked with words such as "and" or "with" or "vs.")

We could add a poll, if you'd like.
But if you consider the collab as a band then most of the band's members are from Romania and not Azerbaijan (I make the assumption here that Akce has more than 1 member).
No, Akcent consists of one member only: Adrian Sînă.
The other band members have left years ago.
The Azerbaijani entry is valid and eligible to compete.
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Postby LionH3art » Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:57 am

Grybop wrote:
This is how I see it:

I consider the collab as a band. Then check the nationality of the members. The majority gets to be represented.
This also solves the cases where there is no clear featured artist (credited acts are linked with words such as "and" or "with" or "vs.")

We could add a poll, if you'd like.
Same. Thought it has always been like this
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Postby Mainshow » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:07 am

Grybop wrote:
cheapthrills wrote:However, I don't think bashing my choice was helpful or necessary
I don't think anyone meant to "bash" your perfectly eligible choice. After the Ecuadorian entry nitpicking, Ray saying something so random was very funny IMO, hope you didn't take offence in that.
This! - I think it's fair to make his or her concern heard and it was more meant to be funny. I don't think it was meant to be hurtful or anything. Let us all breathe in some fresh air, please.

@cheapthrills
As the host of this month's contest, let me assure you that your entry was valid and eligible. Also, I think it was such a kind and beautiful thing to take this song as some sort of tribute.
I hope you reconsider and take part this month.

@all

This contest meant to be fun, bringing people together, discovering new music. I think that picking more and more rules is not necessary. Some users do already have some problems and I don't think it's necessary that people have to justify their entries that heavily this time.

The rules are clear here:

06. The song cannot have been a UK/US Top 40 hit, as it would give it an unfair advantage.
12. PLEASE try and choose a song not everyone would know, the point is to discover new artists.
#12 is more some sort of recommendation.
We are all coming from different countries, we are all music addicts but due to personal liking, commitment, time, location, etc. we all have a different concept of what is "too well known". That's why rule #6 kicks in.
What's the point of banning Loreen when she only had one UK Top 40 hit back in 2012 and flopped hard ever since in every country (apart from Sweden for another single)? As long as you are not a huge fan of her, you don't know her newer tracks. I know that this is a controversial example because Loreen was chosen as the Swedish representative earlier this year and some people know her quite well but in the end, this game used to be joyful and fun and in the end, it's up to the user him- or herself.
We should not take that freedom away.
Besides, we had the exact discussion one or two years ago and we came to the result, that the rules are perfectly fine the way they are and we all decided not to imply a rule stating that all artists are banned who had one single minor hit some years ago but got forgotten afterwards.

This is just me as a regular user speaking now: I would try to find something new or something I am very passionate about because I want to share it with you (which is the case with cheapthrills here); in the end it's up to the user to decide. But IF you want to be "nice" and if you aren't sure whether your potential entry will be considered to be "too famous" for this contest, check UKMIX Parade or the UKMIX threads in the Pop/Rock/Dance/RnB sections.
Personally, I don't take songs as entries which are already widely discussed or liked by some users here anymore.
I think that's a good indicator (but it's not an obligation or rule).

So in the end, please let the user make the decision in the end.
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Postby westhammer » Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:23 am

cheapthrills wrote:I removed the entry. I'll admit that I am taking this personally since my entry was a particularly emotional selection. However, I don't think bashing my choice was helpful or necessary because singling it out is inconsistent with previous contests.

As Affillate mentioned, no one said anything when it was Markus Feehily, who is also from Westlife, a couple months ago. No one is mentioning Falco this month. We had artists last month who'd had some top 40 success, including my entry; no one said anything then either. When Loreen was included a couple months ago, most people, including me, were ok with keeping her in the comp. So it feels like the whole "new artist" concept is relative and rather nebulous.

As a solo artist, Shane's support seems to be quite localized, specific to the UK /Ireland where he has only managed one top 20 song on his own. That localized support is akin to some previous FSC winners I've seen that charted in the top ten of 5 or 6 select countries.

I believe my choice followed the rules. As far as I am concerned, Shane's work as a solo artist is distinct from that of his former band and that is the work I was choosing to highlight. I stand by my choice even though I've removed it.
It's just my opinion, I don't make the rules. I don't think you should not enter a song because of my opinion because I most certainly wouldn't withdraw if it was the other way around.
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Postby navi » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:02 pm

25. Srbija

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Stray Dogg - Come Along Wind


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Postby jio » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:23 am

Mainshow wrote:
jio wrote:
Grybop wrote:This is how I see it:

I consider the collab as a band. Then check the nationality of the members. The majority gets to be represented.
This also solves the cases where there is no clear featured artist (credited acts are linked with words such as "and" or "with" or "vs.")

We could add a poll, if you'd like.
But if you consider the collab as a band then most of the band's members are from Romania and not Azerbaijan (I make the assumption here that Akce has more than 1 member).
No, Akcent consists of one member only: Adrian Sînă.
The other band members have left years ago.
The Azerbaijani entry is valid and eligible to compete.
ok then... I am abroad I didnt have time to check the members, l just wrote what crossed my mind... its good to have Azerbaijan anyway
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