Michael Jackson :: Charts & Sales History

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Postby thebigham » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:04 pm

^Posts like this is why I usually don't get into these discussions. People get hysterical.

Thriller no longer being #1 in the USA does not diminish any of it achievements. I was a teenager in 1983/1984 and vividly remember the exciting Thriller era.
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Postby cham » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:30 pm

I don't have any issues if Thriller gone passed by any album fair and square. The problem here is it's impossible for Eagles to achieve it. If it was surpassed by a Beatles album then it's buyable.
Soundscan has somewhat accurate numbers when it comes to weekly album sales so how come an album which has barely appear on Soundscan chart sell 9 million in 9 years!! We all know the digital downloads are very low when it comes to old acts even for MJ. RIAA counts the shipments from record labels as far as I know. So who bought those?
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Postby cham » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:50 pm

And how come the numbers RIAA get that Soundscan doesn't get??? Does this mean we can't trust at least one of them or we can't trust either of them?????
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Postby BadMan125 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:30 pm

Bigham's right. Thriller is the No. 1 selling album of all time. Meaning not just America, the whole world! 66 million copies.

Eagles is only 42 million.

There's like a 24 million gap! Chill. Michael's throne won't be challenged ANYTIME soon.
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Postby thebigham » Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:39 pm

9/8/18 Billboard's Top Album Sales
Total = Chain, Independent, Mass Merchants, Non Traditional

110. MICHAEL JACKSON|ESSENTIAL MICH 1,607 = 32 33 901 641 82796942872

111. MICHAEL JACKSON|THRILLER 1,605 = 212 279 174 939 07464381122
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Postby thebigham » Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:29 am

My apologies for not posting these figures sooner. Life has been so busy and I am finally able to catch up on work that I have been putting off.

5/26/18 Billboard's Catalog Album Sales

2. Number Ones - Michael Jackson 3,776 5,432,290 4xP

17. Thriller - Michael Jackson 2,186 3,701,959

2014 figure - 6,358,306

SoundScan has adjusted its totals for albums released prior to 1993. They are only counting sales from 1993 until today. It's so disappointing. I have no idea why.

oldbloke is using this figure:

THRILLER - Michael Jackson ( 6,915,000 ) 32xP
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Postby cham » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:13 am

thebigham wrote:My apologies for not posting these figures sooner. Life has been so busy and I am finally able to catch up on work that I have been putting off.

5/26/18 Billboard's Catalog Album Sales

2. Number Ones - Michael Jackson 3,776 5,432,290 4xP

17. Thriller - Michael Jackson 2,186 3,701,959

2014 figure - 6,358,306

SoundScan has adjusted its totals for albums released prior to 1993. They are only counting sales from 1993 until today. It's so disappointing. I have no idea why.

oldbloke is using this figure:

THRILLER - Michael Jackson ( 6,915,000 ) 32xP
I thought they are counting from 1991 onwards.
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Postby cham » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:27 am

Edu wrote:Epic already used digital "sales" (including streaming) for "Thriller" at 33xP and "Bad" at 10xP. And now they used those type of sales for "Dangerous" and "HIStory".

Having used that digital data on the original albums they can't use them again on "Number Ones" or "The Essential MJ"...unless RIAA changes its rules.

So I don't expect new certification for "Thriller" or "Bad". In the case of "Thriller" maybe one more Platinum this year but not enough to get back to number one in RIAA list.

I was expecting a 9xP for "Off The Wall" with these digital "sales", maybe it's close but not yet there.
Having used that digital data on the original albums they can't use them again on "Number Ones" or "The Essential MJ"...unless RIAA changes its rules.
So how come Eagles' GH album which doesn't has their biggest hit Hotel California ended up certifying 38X platinum??
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Postby cham » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:45 am

Edu wrote:Epic already used digital "sales" (including streaming) for "Thriller" at 33xP and "Bad" at 10xP. And now they used those type of sales for "Dangerous" and "HIStory".

I was expecting a 9xP for "Off The Wall" with these digital "sales", maybe it's close but not yet there.
Dangerous and History was already estimated 8X by 2009. So it's nothing new.
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Postby Jason80 » Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:09 pm

I am also very disappointed and confused that Eagles' GH surpassed Thriller with such a wide margin. As many UK Mix Users have pointed out with plausible data and facts (e. g. the relatively weak Catalog Charts Performance of the Album since 2006), it its absolutely impossible that GH generated 9 Million SPS Units since 2006 - the year of the 29x Platinum Certification.

That said the Rolling Stones Article stating that

...The RIAA last tallied Their Greatest Hits 1971-1975‘s totals in 2006, when the album was 29x platinum; since then, streaming and digital downloads have dominated the music industry. Greatest Hits‘ new certification takes into account total streams, downloads and traditional sales since 2006. Thriller‘s totals were reportedly updated in 2017....

is literally wrong and such descriptions have provoked indignation in informed circles. But this is not an Information coming from the RIAA. it is just a misinterpretation from the Rolling Stone Magazin.

At least 5 or even 6 Million Units definitely must have been sold in years prior to 2006 and weren’t counted for whatever reasons in past Certifications. Maybe those “lost sales” goes in part even back to the 70s and 80s and maybe the Label did not have adequate documentation to convince the Auditors in the past.

I sincerely hope that this is the case and that the RIAA is not corrupt or negligent in their proceedings. However – at the end of the day BadMan 125 is right. Thriller remains undoubtedly the best-selling Album of all time worldwide and that comforts me :D
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Postby cham » Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:21 pm

Jason80 wrote:At least 5 or even 6 Million Units definitely must have been sold in years prior to 2006 and weren’t counted for whatever reasons in past Certifications. Maybe those “lost sales” goes in part even back to the 70s and 80s and maybe the Label did not have adequate documentation to convince the Auditors in the past.
RIAA counts the shipments made by Record labels so it is impossible to imagine there's an unaccounted numbers or album shipments. Every record label has their numbers accounted. We have Beatles numbers Elvis' numbers etc... It's their living. People who work on those record companies are paid to do these kind of things. So if someone say there are lost numbers it's bullshit. May be worldwide sales certainly not in USA. They even have cassette records!!
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Postby cham » Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:36 pm

Jason80 wrote:I am also very disappointed and confused that Eagles' GH surpassed Thriller with such a wide margin. As many UK Mix Users have pointed out with plausible data and facts (e. g. the relatively weak Catalog Charts Performance of the Album since 2006), it its absolutely impossible that GH generated 9 Million SPS Units since 2006 - the year of the 29x Platinum Certification.
Not that album. Certainly not that GH album which doesn't even have Hotel California. And they say digital singles downloads equivalents go to the GH album NOT to their studio album WHILE MJ's digital downloads streams going to his compilation GH albums!! not to Thriller!! How ridiculous is this?
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Postby pierpinto » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:12 pm

SPAIN
TOP 100 ALBUMS
HIStory #23 (RE)
Dangerous #27 (RE)
Thriller #40 (RE)
Invincible #44 (RE)
Bad #50 (RE)
Off The Wall #65 (RE)
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Postby Jason80 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:38 am

^Wow - that's extremely strong. I think that is due to the Studio Album Vinyl Picture Discs that were released recently. Vinyl seems to be super popular in Spain :D
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Postby Jason80 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:11 pm

cham wrote:
Jason80 wrote:I am also very disappointed and confused that Eagles' GH surpassed Thriller with such a wide margin. As many UK Mix Users have pointed out with plausible data and facts (e. g. the relatively weak Catalog Charts Performance of the Album since 2006), it its absolutely impossible that GH generated 9 Million SPS Units since 2006 - the year of the 29x Platinum Certification.
Not that album. Certainly not that GH album which doesn't even have Hotel California. And they say digital singles downloads equivalents go to the GH album NOT to their studio album WHILE MJ's digital downloads streams going to his compilation GH albums!! not to Thriller!! How ridiculous is this?
There are no indications that the Label assigns the Streaming Activities and Song Sales of MJ's big Hits to his various GH Albums. The opposite is the case. Both The Essential and Number Ones are under-certified and other Greates Hits Albums like Ultimate Collection, This Is It or Greatest Hits - HIStory Vol.1 have not been certified for many years.

For the Bad (10 x p) and Thriller (33 x p) Certifications in February 2017, I'm pretty sure they used SPS. Remember that Thriller was certified 30 x p in December 2015 and that was just before the beginning of the SPS era.

From my point of view, the Thriller and Bad Certifications from 2017 are absolutely understandable. The recent Certifications of the Eagles, however, are really a bit strange...
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Postby nympho » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:52 pm

pierpinto wrote:SPAIN
TOP 100 ALBUMS
HIStory #23 (RE)
Dangerous #27 (RE)
Thriller #40 (RE)
Invincible #44 (RE)
Bad #50 (RE)
Off The Wall #65 (RE)
Jason80 wrote:^Wow - that's extremely strong. I think that is due to the Studio Album Vinyl Picture Discs that were released recently. Vinyl seems to be super popular in Spain :D
Yes, it’s because of the vinyl picture discs.

Spanish albums chart is sales only (there’s a separate chart for streaming albums, they’re not combined yet), so sales are low.
#23 might have sold 300-350 copies max. and #65 around 100 copies.

By the way, they were all new entries and not re-entries.
Promusicae only allows albums up to 3 years old to chart, no catalog albums allowed. But these vinyls have a different barcode/catalog number so they’re considered new editions and they’re allowed to chart.
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Postby jimcastor » Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:20 pm

thebigham wrote:^Posts like this is why I usually don't get into these discussions. People get hysterical.

Thriller no longer being #1 in the USA does not diminish any of it achievements. I was a teenager in 1983/1984 and vividly remember the exciting Thriller era.
It would not be an issue if Eagles GH was No 1 fair and square. But its certifications are very problematic first because
of the millions of free and dirt cheap units RIAA decided to certify in 1994 suddenly including Membership agreement offers
and Bonus / gifted albums which SoundScan ignores for a reason: they are not really sales. Without those Eagles would not be anywhere near Thriller.

And secondly because of this recent unexplained jump by 9 million that is not supported by any data. This is not the first time an album from the same label enjoys a huge unexplained jump. Cracked Rear View jumped from 16xPlatinum to 21xPlatinum back in May despite very low sales and streams.

Where did Rhino find 9 million extra units for Eagles GH since 2006 when that album was missing in action from the catalog charts since 2006
except in 2016 when Glenn Frey died?

RIAA's refusal to elaborate how this was possible certainly doesn't make them more credible.

chartmasters.org can't explain it either
https://chartmasters.org/2018/09/a-step ... s-sellers/
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Postby cham » Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:07 pm

It's simple math. When Thriller certified 33X platinum every media, Billboard charts, RIAA declared it as the #1 album in US. So to tell that they must calculate what's next to Thriller So it was Eagles' and it wasn't accumulated 33 M sales during that time.
So whatever added must be added since that date. So the question is how much they sold during last 8 years or so? There surely can't be multi millions of downloads right?
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Postby jimcastor » Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:24 pm

cham wrote:It's simple math. When Thriller certified 33X platinum every media, Billboard charts, RIAA declared it as the #1 album in US. So to tell that they must calculate what's next to Thriller So it was Eagles' and it wasn't accumulated 33 M sales during that time.
So whatever added must be added since that date. So the question is how much they sold during last 8 years or so? There surely can't be multi millions of downloads right?
The question is when and where were those 9 million units sold which Rhino and RIAA added to Eagles GH's since their last certification
in 2006. Since 2006 Thriller outsold Eagles GH, according to SoundScan. This is reflected on the year end Billboard catalog charts.
https://www.billboard.com/charts/year-e ... log-albums
Every year since 2006 Eagles GH was not even on that chart except 2016. Thriller was there 7 times twice in the Top 10.

RIAA's media contact person Jonathan Larry said that each certification considers the period since the album was released so
they may add units which they previously did not certify. But Eagles GH was routinely certified so how could they miss millions of units
through it all? Basically they want to say out previous certifications were not accurate but the current one is, trust us.

One thing is sure there is no way Eagles GH sold / streamed 9 million units since 2006.
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Postby brian05 » Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:34 pm

And 2 more BPI awards for Michael Jackson,
Michael Jackson - The Way You Make Me Feel - Epic - Gold - Single - 21.09.2018 - 17.11.2004
Michael Jackson Ft Akon - Hold My Hand - Sony Music - Silver - Single - 21.09.2018 - 26.11.2010
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Postby pierpinto » Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:09 am

THE ESSENTIAL is 4XPLATINUM (1,200,000) in The UK.
Michael Jackson The Essential Epic/Legacy Recordings Platinum 4x Album 06.04.2018 10.01.2011
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Postby OutlawTorn » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:05 am

His King Of Pop compilation has been added.

Certifications found in 18 countries - more than 2.6 million units collected:

https://popularalbums.blogspot.com/p/20 ... f-pop.html
(https://popularalbums.blogspot.be/p/news-updates.html)
+
https://twitter.com/popularalbums/statu ... 1906009088
https://popularalbums.blogspot.be -> 310 albums and counting...
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Postby pierpinto » Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:13 am

OutlawTorn wrote:His King Of Pop compilation has been added.

https://twitter.com/popularalbums/statu ... 1906009088
Some additional info :

SWEDEN GOLD 20,000
TURKEY PLATINUM 10,000
HONG KONG PLATINUM 20,000
GREECE 2XPLATINUM 12,000
KOREA 36,500 (2009 - Dec 2012) (enough for 3xplatinum at that time)
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Postby OutlawTorn » Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:09 pm

pierpinto wrote:
OutlawTorn wrote:His King Of Pop compilation has been added.

https://twitter.com/popularalbums/statu ... 1906009088
Some additional info :

SWEDEN GOLD 20,000
TURKEY PLATINUM 10,000
HONG KONG PLATINUM 20,000
GREECE 2XPLATINUM 12,000
KOREA 36,500 (2009 - Dec 2012) (enough for 3xplatinum at that time)
Thanks a lot - it's been updated!
https://popularalbums.blogspot.be -> 310 albums and counting...
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Postby pierpinto » Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:19 pm

Thriller

iTunes:
#3 Canada
#4 United States
#10 Brazil
#17 Portugal
#23 Ireland
#31 Denmark
#32 United Kingdom
#34 United Kingdom

#35 Cayman Islands
#36 Niger
#37 Niger
#40 Norway
#42 Spain
#46 Australia
#49 France
#52 Ireland
#53 Austria
#56 Netherlands
#58 Mexico
#59 Italy
#66 Turkey
#75 United States
#85 Spain
#86 Ireland
#99 New Zealand
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