Dustin Hoffman accused of sexual harassment

 

Postby Bojan » Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:55 am

Dustin Hoffman accused of sexual harassment against 17-year-old

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Dustin Hoffman has been accused of sexual harassment against a 17-year-old intern in 1985.

Writer Anna Graham Hunter alleges that the actor, now 80, groped her on the set of TV movie Death of a Salesman and spoke inappropriately about sex with her.

“He asked me to give him a foot massage my first day on set; I did,” Hunter wrote in the Hollywood Reporter. “He was openly flirtatious, he grabbed my ass, he talked about sex to me and in front of me. One morning I went to his dressing room to take his breakfast order; he looked at me and grinned, taking his time. Then he said, ‘I’ll have a hard-boiled egg … and a soft-boiled clitoris.’ His entourage burst out laughing. I left, speechless. Then I went to the bathroom and cried.”

Hunter detailed Hoffman’s alleged treatment of her over her five weeks on set in a diary that she mailed to her sister at the time. “Today, when I was walking Dustin to his limo, he felt my ass four times,” she wrote. “I hit him each time, hard, and told him he was a dirty old man.”

She claims that on set, she was told to put up with his behavior by a supervisor who told her to “sacrifice” some of her values for the sake of the production.

“At 49, I understand what Dustin Hoffman did as it fits into the larger pattern of what women experience in Hollywood and everywhere,” she wrote, looking back. “He was a predator, I was a child, and this was sexual harassment. As to how it fits into my own pattern, I imagine I’ll be figuring that out for years to come.”

Hoffman has responded to the article with an apology: “I have the utmost respect for women and feel terrible that anything I might have done could have put her in an uncomfortable situation. I am sorry. It is not reflective of who I am.”

The Tootsie star’s reputation has often been troubling. On the set of Kramer vs Kramer, he slapped Meryl Streep to improve her performance in a dramatic scene while also taunting her about the death of her boyfriend. “I was getting divorced, I’d been partying with drugs and it depleted me in every way,” Hoffman said of his behavior at the time.

The story comes after a deluge of similar stories of sexual harassment within Hollywood against producer Harvey Weinstein, film-maker James Toback and actor Kevin Spacey. Today has also seen six women accuse director Brett Ratner of sexual harassment, including actors Natasha Henstridge and Olivia Munn.
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/n ... 7-year-old
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Postby Ewokguy15 » Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:59 am

Thank god he doesn’t have a show or film to cancel!!!!!
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Postby Bojan » Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:59 am

It's a great thing that sexual predators get exposed! But the hashtag #metoo campaign and all the allegations made online also brings a new kind of mob mentality. What happened to innocent until proven guilty? How can we know that all the allegations are true, especially in an age when everyone loves being a victim?
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Postby BlueScorpion » Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:14 am

Brett Ratner too. There almost should be a thread for all sexual harassment cases and they're replicating quick.
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Postby Fan » Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:55 am

I'm loving the fact how all these diry bastards are getting exposed at the moment, bring it!! I do however worry that we will get some false claims as well and innocent people are being damaged- but just look at this guy's reply. 'Anything I might have done' sounds like a 'I don't and didn't give a ****'. Because if he was innocent, he would just deny it, wouldn't he?
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Postby menime123 » Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:18 am

Fan wrote:I'm loving the fact how all these diry bastards are getting exposed at the moment, bring it!! I do however worry that we will get some false claims as well and innocent people are being damaged- but just look at this guy's reply. 'Anything I might have done' sounds like a 'I don't and didn't give a ****'. Because if he was innocent, he would just deny it, wouldn't he?
But just look at what you’re saying - you’re calling him out as a ‘dirty bastard’ yet go on to hope no one innocent gets caught up in this. That right there is the problem - people condemn based on a woman’s version of the truth.

I won’t get into specifics of any of these cases because in all honesty it’s not my job to pass judgement as I have no way of knowing the truth. What I will say is that we have to view incidents in context, something I think the world forgets about. 20, 30, 40 years ago attitudes were different and what is considered harassment now was not necessarily the case at the time.

I don’t defend anyone - that’s not my job. But to look at it another way, gay discrimination, hate crimes etc are all illegal now. Do we see anyone being vindicated for hating on gays back in the 1980s? Is it not possible that someone that did in the 1980s now views it different as society has progressed and being gay is more acceptable?

I feel the same logic has to - to an extent - be applied here. To ruin someone’s reputation when actually, he didn’t sexually assault you is a strange thing to do imo. What would have been a crime then and a crime now - definitely not okay and I wouldn’t condone that. But what is considered harassment now wasn’t considered harassment decades ago.
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Postby Bojan » Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:40 am

Well said, menime123.

History is full of women accusing men of sexual assaults that never happened. How did women suddenly become 100% credible in 2017?

Justice is established before courts of law, and not through deranged social media mobs. I despise all kinds of media-driven mobs, male or female. Innocence until proven guilty, always!

Male movements are seriously needed. Time to take the red pill!
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Postby UKMusicLova » Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:58 am

^ Isn't the whole point to give women (and men) the opportunity to speak out without being called liars or the attitude that they must "prove it". I'm not saying that there aren't people who lie, but I don't necessarily agree with the innocent until proven guilty mentality here as that puts the onus on the victim (i.e. we don't believe you until there is conclusive evidence...). Many women have had to put up with decades of people not believing, or taking seriously, their sexual harassment or assault claims.
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Postby SalBoy » Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:09 am

Now everyone gets encouragement

Watch all this the best actors being **** everything and everybody

I see people nowadays will do everything to get on top

Pathetic
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Postby Ewokguy15 » Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:13 am

Kids used to get hit with wooden spoons up until the 90's, maybe we should all start taking our parents to court!!!!

Things change, what was acceptable in the 60's, 70's, 80's & 90's is very different to now.
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Postby menime123 » Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:31 am

UKMusicLova wrote:^ Isn't the whole point to give women (and men) the opportunity to speak out without being called liars or the attitude that they must "prove it". I'm not saying that there aren't people who lie, but I don't necessarily agree with the innocent until proven guilty mentality here as that puts the onus on the victim (i.e. we don't believe you until there is conclusive evidence...). Many women have had to put up with decades of people not believing, or taking seriously, their sexual harassment or assault claims.
In my opinion, there is a world of difference between speaking to the press and speaking to the police.

The law of the land states everyone is due a fair trial and that in order for a conviction to happen, you must be proven guilty. It is not up to the defendant to prove innocence, but for the prosecution to prove beyond all reasonable doubt that what happened happened.

When it comes to the media, it’s the other way around. The media can publish names and accusations whether it is true or not. A news outlet publish what someone claims is true and once it is out there that person’s reputation is instantly destroyed. Sometimes the person takes the media to court for liable, but more often than not they do not as it's easier to let it just die quietly.

The thing I don’t understand is why this is all playing out in the media. It’s a witch hunt for whoever has stories to share and my guess is the media are buying them too.
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Postby android » Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:40 am

Mmm if we want to stop the culture that has allowed predatory sexual behaviour, sexual harrassment and the abuse of power then it is probably not helpful discouraging victims from coming forward. Dustin Hoffman has apologised for his behaviour so maybe some people here need to think about that.
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Postby menime123 » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:19 pm

android wrote:Mmm if we want to stop the culture that has allowed predatory sexual behaviour, sexual harrassment and the abuse of power then it is probably not helpful discouraging victims from coming forward. Dustin Hoffman has apologised for his behaviour so maybe some people here need to think about that.
There is a way in which to do it. If it’s recent, call them out on it through employment and police if necessary. But in all honesty I have to wonder what the point is in saying Dustin Hoffman grabbed your ass 30 years ago via the media.
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Postby android » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:38 pm

It would be nice if victims had more faith in their employers and the judicial system but there is good reasons why they don't. The Hoffman issue will probably blow over but the Weinstein scandal shows how bad abuse of power can be.
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Postby roeleek » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:44 pm

menime123 wrote:
android wrote:Mmm if we want to stop the culture that has allowed predatory sexual behaviour, sexual harrassment and the abuse of power then it is probably not helpful discouraging victims from coming forward. Dustin Hoffman has apologised for his behaviour so maybe some people here need to think about that.
There is a way in which to do it. If it’s recent, call them out on it through employment and police if necessary. But in all honesty I have to wonder what the point is in saying Dustin Hoffman grabbed your ass 30 years ago via the media.
Whether something happened today or 30 years is ago is irrelevant. The first assaults can lead to more severe assaults over time if the perpetrators continue to get away with sexual assault/ harassment. Many people are taught to assault/harass, its a learned behavior and the UK/USA are now recognizing it as such and stating to the criminals that it is not okay and there is a punishment to it. Many people may argue that the UK and USA have some evolving to do on the subject. Similarly it is legal to marry a child in the USA- no minimum age requirements exist. Cultural condemnation prohibits most people from doing it but there are numerous cases of children as young as 11/12 being married. Sex crimes are many and we are choosing to educate our societies on its harm and saying not in our society. If you don't like that tough. By the tone set in your responses, you are clearly offended by public prosecutions but it is necessary when the perpetrators are in positions of power who could influence an outcome if it was done in a private manner.

In the case of Jimmy Saville, those procedures you champion in your comment were not sufficient because there was a hush hush culture which exists in a lot of developing countries today. Equally if the crimes/offences were committed 30 years ago, they may have not been treated with the gravity that they will be treated with today.
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Postby SpyVsSpy » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:44 pm

He was being sleazy but he didn’t assault anyone.
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Postby roeleek » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:45 pm

I thought he was going to get accused of harassment when he didn't show up at Graham Norton. Poor Graham, he's running out of big name male celebs who aren't complete arseholes to invite on the show.
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Postby roeleek » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:46 pm

SpyVsSpy wrote:He was being sleazy but he didn’t assault anyone.
That we know of and it may have been just that but I'm not going to give him the innocence until proven guilty assumption because he has apologized for it and acknowledged it.
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Postby Bojan » Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:06 pm

roeleek wrote:Whether something happened today or 30 years is ago is irrelevant.
It's very relevant. Here's an example: homosexuality was officially an illness some 40 years ago or so, right? That's why you can't accuse people of hate speech if they said that homosexuality is an illness 40 years ago. The same goes for sexual harassment. The most of it wasn't seen as sexual harassment and was even widely accepted behavior, or seen as flirting in some cases.

roeleek wrote:I thought he was going to get accused of harassment when he didn't show up at Graham Norton. Poor Graham, he's running out of big name male celebs who aren't complete arseholes to invite on the show.
Graham is an arsehole himself. :lol: And the most other guys are only accused of being arseholes, but it's not proven.
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Postby roeleek » Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:15 pm

Bojan wrote:
roeleek wrote:Whether something happened today or 30 years is ago is irrelevant.
It's very relevant. Here's an example: homosexuality was officially an illness some 40 years ago or so, right? That's why you can't accuse people of hate speech if they said that homosexuality is an illness 40 years ago. The same goes for sexual harassment. The most of it wasn't seen as sexual harassment and was even widely accepted behavior, or seen as flirting in some cases.

roeleek wrote:I thought he was going to get accused of harassment when he didn't show up at Graham Norton. Poor Graham, he's running out of big name male celebs who aren't complete arseholes to invite on the show.
Graham is an arsehole himself. :lol: And the most other guys are only accused of being arseholes, but it's not proven.
Because it happened 30 years ago doesn't negate the impact it had on the victim. That's why the UK is now prosecuting historical sex crimes. Just because it happened 30 years doesn't stop the victim from being negatively impacted. Some of the more cruel crimes lead to far serious consequences of the victims such as drug addiction, self harm, severe depression etc.

On the topic of same sex prosecutions, some western nations are finally apologizing for same sex prosecutions that were unjust and removing the criminal sentences from records to pardon and apologize for the prosecutions.
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Postby Bojan » Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:41 pm

But did it even really happen? We don't know that. If Dustin Hoffman accuse some actress of grabbing his ass would her career be over? It's more likely that people would be joking about him, and that's it.

Apologizing in the name of the state is okay, but that's something else.
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Postby menime123 » Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:46 pm

roeleek wrote:
Bojan wrote:
roeleek wrote:Whether something happened today or 30 years is ago is irrelevant.
It's very relevant. Here's an example: homosexuality was officially an illness some 40 years ago or so, right? That's why you can't accuse people of hate speech if they said that homosexuality is an illness 40 years ago. The same goes for sexual harassment. The most of it wasn't seen as sexual harassment and was even widely accepted behavior, or seen as flirting in some cases.

roeleek wrote:I thought he was going to get accused of harassment when he didn't show up at Graham Norton. Poor Graham, he's running out of big name male celebs who aren't complete arseholes to invite on the show.
Graham is an arsehole himself. :lol: And the most other guys are only accused of being arseholes, but it's not proven.
Because it happened 30 years ago doesn't negate the impact it had on the victim. That's why the UK is now prosecuting historical sex crimes. Just because it happened 30 years doesn't stop the victim from being negatively impacted. Some of the more cruel crimes lead to far serious consequences of the victims such as drug addiction, self harm, severe depression etc.

On the topic of same sex prosecutions, some western nations are finally apologizing for same sex prosecutions that were unjust and removing the criminal sentences from records to pardon and apologize for the prosecutions.
I think you have tunnel vision so let’s just clear this up a bit: where sexual abuse has been committed and a crime took place, the police should be involved.

This woman doesn’t claim to be raped or forced into taking part in sex acts. She claims only to of have her ass grabbed and comments made in the presence of others that made her feel uncomfortable. Note she claims to have physically assaulted the actor for doing so.

Based on the original article no crime was committed but this woman still went to the press to discuss something from 30 years ago, where culture and atttiutdes were different to how we view such behaviour now.

I am not defending Dustin. I just do not understand what the story is here and why she feels after 30 years she has a story to suddenly tell the world where no crime was committed.

A month ago this wouldnt have been considered news worthy.
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Postby Bojan » Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:55 pm

The strangest thing is that women think it's normal to treat men the way women wouldn't like to be treated themselves - only because it's acceptable now. That might change in the future and then we'll have, what? Dozens of famous actors accusing women of sexual assault that happened 30 years ago? :lol:
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Postby roeleek » Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:00 pm

menime123 wrote:
roeleek wrote:
Bojan wrote:
roeleek wrote:Whether something happened today or 30 years is ago is irrelevant.
It's very relevant. Here's an example: homosexuality was officially an illness some 40 years ago or so, right? That's why you can't accuse people of hate speech if they said that homosexuality is an illness 40 years ago. The same goes for sexual harassment. The most of it wasn't seen as sexual harassment and was even widely accepted behavior, or seen as flirting in some cases.

roeleek wrote:I thought he was going to get accused of harassment when he didn't show up at Graham Norton. Poor Graham, he's running out of big name male celebs who aren't complete arseholes to invite on the show.
Graham is an arsehole himself. :lol: And the most other guys are only accused of being arseholes, but it's not proven.
Because it happened 30 years ago doesn't negate the impact it had on the victim. That's why the UK is now prosecuting historical sex crimes. Just because it happened 30 years doesn't stop the victim from being negatively impacted. Some of the more cruel crimes lead to far serious consequences of the victims such as drug addiction, self harm, severe depression etc.

On the topic of same sex prosecutions, some western nations are finally apologizing for same sex prosecutions that were unjust and removing the criminal sentences from records to pardon and apologize for the prosecutions.
I think you have tunnel vision so let’s just clear this up a bit: where sexual abuse has been committed and a crime took place, the police should be involved.

This woman doesn’t claim to be raped or forced into taking part in sex acts. She claims only to of have her ass grabbed and comments made in the presence of others that made her feel uncomfortable. Note she claims to have physically assaulted the actor for doing so.

Based on the original article no crime was committed but this woman still went to the press to discuss something from 30 years ago, where culture and atttiutdes were different to how we view such behaviour now.

I am not defending Dustin. I just do not understand what the story is here and why she feels after 30 years she has a story to suddenly tell the world where no crime was committed.

A month ago this wouldnt have been considered news worthy.
When crimes do take place, the police aren't always competent and have been known to ignore rape accusations and brush them away historically. Saville for example and more recently the pakistani gang rape crisis in the UK are a good example. Only a handful of police investigations go ahead and to get to that stage, a victim has already suffered more stress and anxiety at that point. Comments that were made to see if she was sexually attracted to him, a 17 year old girl followed by physical touching? She mentions it because she has every right to mention something that happened to her. Your tunnel vision is dangerous because you are of the opinion that harassment should not be a crime? She was harassed as a 17 year old in the place of her work. That's what's happening. Not every incident is rape, if your threshold for harassment is rape then if you were in a position of power than I would worry for your underlings.

The strangest thing is that women think it's normal to treat men the way women wouldn't like to be treated themselves - only because it's acceptable now. That might change in the future and then we'll have, what? Dozens of famous actors accusing women of sexual assault that happened 30 years ago? :lol:
It's correct, in a workplace people have to remember to behave in a professional manner and that includes women as well. We have lived in a patriarchal world in the west and it is true that now that label is inaccurate but not incorrect. There are still boundaries for an equal and fair society.
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Postby menime123 » Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:25 pm

Roeleek

As I’ve explained previously I won’t pass judgement on any specific cases that come to light. I will say I thought I’d read 19 instead of 17. All I’m saying is that I believe anyone accused of anything improper by the law needs to be dealt with by the law and not by the media, and that we must approach all ‘trial by media’ cases with a view that we are not going to get the full story.
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