Record World Single Charts

Moderators: kingofskiffle, arab, AutomaticBR

 

Postby DrTravel » Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:09 pm

Here's a spreadsheet that contains all the songs the made Music Guild/Music Vendor/Record World's Top 100 chart (1954-1982) and their variety of "Bubbling Under" charts (1959-1982) titled Beat Of The Week/Going Up/Looking Up/Singles Coming Up/The Singles Chart 101-150/Singles 101-150. Includes complete chart runs for all Top 100 plus 1960-1963 Bubbling Under. Will be adding 1964-1982 Bubbling Under in the future.

Includes a lot of detail but you need to unhide columns to see it all. Make sure you read the "Key" tab for an explanation.

http://www9.zippyshare.com/v/GlTkuwCW/file.html
DrTravel
Roadie
 
Posts: 265
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2014

Postby Swampy61 » Fri Jun 02, 2017 11:54 am

Thanks for all your hard work Dr.T

Considering the Music Vendor Charts are so rare, I am amazed that not only did you manage to find them, but also that you managed to provide them to the members of this forum so quickly.

I take it that with the imminent release of the first volume of the Record World charts from Joel Whitburn;s Record Research that you will not be publishing the only charts you so far have not provided here ( 1965 - 1969) ?

Will you consider the album charts and maybe the C&W and RnB charts from Music Vendor (probably very difficult) and Record World?
Swampy61
Groupie
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2015

Postby RonnieV » Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:52 pm

Thanks once again DrTravel!
RonnieV
Groupie
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2014

Postby VelaLuka » Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:33 pm

Thank you Dr. Travel!
VelaLuka
Groupie
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016

Postby DrTravel » Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:12 pm

Here are the 1964 Music Vendor/Record World charts plus the bubbling under. If you downloaded the previous file, please replace it with this one as I added two newly found Top 100 charts plus added the bubbling unders (missing one week).

http://www59.zippyshare.com/v/NAmfgyFX/file.html
DrTravel
Roadie
 
Posts: 265
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2014

Postby DrTravel » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:14 pm

Here are the 1965 Record World charts plus the bubbling under.

http://www3.zippyshare.com/v/nnS15emL/file.html
DrTravel
Roadie
 
Posts: 265
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2014

Postby RonnieV » Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:07 pm

Hi DrTravel,

I really like these yearly overviews.

Thanks for all your great work!

RonnieV
RonnieV
Groupie
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2014

Postby VelaLuka » Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:50 pm

DrTravel, big thanks from me too for your great work
VelaLuka
Groupie
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016

Postby DrTravel » Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:12 am

Here are the 1966 Record World charts plus the bubbling under.

http://www67.zippyshare.com/v/gSwvHOaW/file.html
DrTravel
Roadie
 
Posts: 265
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2014

Postby RokinRobinOfLocksley » Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:28 pm

DrTravel wrote:Here are the 1959 Music Vendor charts - unfortunately the first one from 1959 is M.I.A. No source I know of has this (including Record Research).

http://www8.zippyshare.com/v/oWP3GzKQ/file.html

On to 1960 - might add the "Beat Of The Week - Headed For The Top 100" chart which started on March 21, 1960 and was 25 positions. Their version of Billboard's "Bubbling Under".
Whitburn describes in his RW book "Hit Records 101-150" that prior to the "Beat of the Week" 25 position bubblers chart starting in Music Vendor in March 21, 1960, there was a precursor to this of some kind, from Feb 23, 1959 to March 14, 1960, that showed between 5 and 32 positions. Any thoughts on this, DrTravel? Might you have these records and positions as well? Cheers!
User avatar
RokinRobinOfLocksley
Groupie
 
Posts: 88
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013
Location: Richmond, Virginia, USA

Postby DrTravel » Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:29 pm

RokinRobinOfLocksley wrote:
DrTravel wrote:Here are the 1959 Music Vendor charts - unfortunately the first one from 1959 is M.I.A. No source I know of has this (including Record Research).

http://www8.zippyshare.com/v/oWP3GzKQ/file.html

On to 1960 - might add the "Beat Of The Week - Headed For The Top 100" chart which started on March 21, 1960 and was 25 positions. Their version of Billboard's "Bubbling Under".
Whitburn describes in his RW book "Hit Records 101-150" that prior to the "Beat of the Week" 25 position bubblers chart starting in Music Vendor in March 21, 1960, there was a precursor to this of some kind, from Feb 23, 1959 to March 14, 1960, that showed between 5 and 32 positions. Any thoughts on this, DrTravel? Might you have these records and positions as well? Cheers!
There was a list of songs that had potential (listed by stars) to break into Top 100. They were not in any numerical order and really do not constitute any resemblance to a "chart". Almost like a review of new records listing their potential to be a hit. Whitburn made up the "peak positions".
DrTravel
Roadie
 
Posts: 265
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2014

Postby DrTravel » Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:09 pm

RokinRobinOfLocksley wrote:
DrTravel wrote:Here are the 1959 Music Vendor charts - unfortunately the first one from 1959 is M.I.A. No source I know of has this (including Record Research).

http://www8.zippyshare.com/v/oWP3GzKQ/file.html

On to 1960 - might add the "Beat Of The Week - Headed For The Top 100" chart which started on March 21, 1960 and was 25 positions. Their version of Billboard's "Bubbling Under".
Whitburn describes in his RW book "Hit Records 101-150" that prior to the "Beat of the Week" 25 position bubblers chart starting in Music Vendor in March 21, 1960, there was a precursor to this of some kind, from Feb 23, 1959 to March 14, 1960, that showed between 5 and 32 positions. Any thoughts on this, DrTravel? Might you have these records and positions as well? Cheers!
Here are some samples from the "precursor chart" Whitburn used:
http://www27.zippyshare.com/v/H1SVcikk/file.html

He assumed the songs were listed in some kind of numerical order and only counted the two stars songs. So the first one listed was 101, the second 102 etc. Sounds logical except that they don't correspond with the actual chart positions below #100 listed as Last Week positions on the Top 100 charts. For example on the 12/21/59 chart a song was listed as a new entry with last week's position at 108. However on the 12/14/59 chart (the week before) this same song was listed in the second position, i.e. 102. Often songs would only have one star the week before, or not even on the list. So ranking songs based on their appearance order on the Beat Of The Week chart was not what RW was doing!

A specific example - on the 3/21/60 Top 100 chart the following two new entries were listed with a previous week's (3/14/60) position
THE WAY OF A CLOWN by Teddy Randazzo was listed at position 102 the week prior
DON'T DECEIVE ME by Ruth Brown was listed at position 103 the week prior
On the 3/14/60 Beat Of The Week listing THE WAY OF A CLOWN was not listed at all (Whitburn wouldn't even list this song) but DON"T DECEIVE ME was the first listed song (Whitburn would list it at position 101).

That's why I didn't include them and stated the Whitburn just made these numbers up.

PS ALL the chart data listed in his "POP Memories 1900-1940" and most found in the previous "POP Memories 1890-1954" was fiction - except for the data in the latter book that was extracted from the actual Billboard Pop Charts, 1940-1955. Note his new and improved POP Memories no longer lists any chart data after the first official best sellers chart was published in 1940.
DrTravel
Roadie
 
Posts: 265
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2014

Postby RokinRobinOfLocksley » Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:55 am

Thanks DrTravel, most interesting to see those Music Vendor 'Beat of the Week' sample listings before the chart was started!

I greatly appreciate Joel Whitburn's books and efforts, but occasionally he makes subjective decisions about chart information instead of giving us the pure chart facts. I'd prefer the facts as they were/are, with his opinions in added notes.

And then some books are revised with fewer features than the original printing. For his original Billboard 1950s singles book of charts 1955-1959, he included weekly charts for juke box, radio play, best sellers, graduating to Top 100, and then Hot 100. For the reissue book 1950-1959, he removed the juke box and radio play charts, ugh...

Cheers n chips!
User avatar
RokinRobinOfLocksley
Groupie
 
Posts: 88
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013
Location: Richmond, Virginia, USA

Postby kjell » Thu Aug 24, 2017 5:15 pm

DrTravel wrote:
RokinRobinOfLocksley wrote:
DrTravel wrote:Here are the 1959 Music Vendor charts - unfortunately the first one from 1959 is M.I.A. No source I know of has this (including Record Research).

http://www8.zippyshare.com/v/oWP3GzKQ/file.html

On to 1960 - might add the "Beat Of The Week - Headed For The Top 100" chart which started on March 21, 1960 and was 25 positions. Their version of Billboard's "Bubbling Under".
Whitburn describes in his RW book "Hit Records 101-150" that prior to the "Beat of the Week" 25 position bubblers chart starting in Music Vendor in March 21, 1960, there was a precursor to this of some kind, from Feb 23, 1959 to March 14, 1960, that showed between 5 and 32 positions. Any thoughts on this, DrTravel? Might you have these records and positions as well? Cheers!
Here are some samples from the "precursor chart" Whitburn used:
http://www27.zippyshare.com/v/H1SVcikk/file.html

He assumed the songs were listed in some kind of numerical order and only counted the two stars songs. So the first one listed was 101, the second 102 etc. Sounds logical except that they don't correspond with the actual chart positions below #100 listed as Last Week positions on the Top 100 charts. For example on the 12/21/59 chart a song was listed as a new entry with last week's position at 108. However on the 12/14/59 chart (the week before) this same song was listed in the second position, i.e. 102. Often songs would only have one star the week before, or not even on the list. So ranking songs based on their appearance order on the Beat Of The Week chart was not what RW was doing!

A specific example - on the 3/21/60 Top 100 chart the following two new entries were listed with a previous week's (3/14/60) position
THE WAY OF A CLOWN by Teddy Randazzo was listed at position 102 the week prior
DON'T DECEIVE ME by Ruth Brown was listed at position 103 the week prior
On the 3/14/60 Beat Of The Week listing THE WAY OF A CLOWN was not listed at all (Whitburn wouldn't even list this song) but DON"T DECEIVE ME was the first listed song (Whitburn would list it at position 101).

That's why I didn't include them and stated the Whitburn just made these numbers up.

PS ALL the chart data listed in his "POP Memories 1900-1940" and most found in the previous "POP Memories 1890-1954" was fiction - except for the data in the latter book that was extracted from the actual Billboard Pop Charts, 1940-1955. Note his new and improved POP Memories no longer lists any chart data after the first official best sellers chart was published in 1940.
This brings clarity to a foggy practice. Seems Whitburn in reality had no more info than possibly enough to label the
titles under Beat of the week with B for breaker or bubbler. And I'm deeply disappointed to learn these facts about my PM 1890-1954.
kjell
Groupie
 
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007
Location: Oslo, Norway

Postby DrTravel » Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:31 pm

And I'm deeply disappointed to learn these facts about my PM 1890-1954.
I bought my first Record Research book back in the early 70's - it was the second edition of his "Top Pop Singles". Have bought every one since and currently have over 50 of his books on my shelf. His books were the music bible for me. As time went by I started discovering errors and with the increased availability of internet material discovered many more oddities. I got involved in this chart thing when I compiled my first spreadsheet for the Mainstream and Modern Rock charts - that's what I listen to! That required many visits to the library but I got a complete set of these charts! Of course some got a hold of my SS and are making money off my work (i.e. http://www.song-database.com). I got even more involved with the Whitburn Project (google it) where we were collecting all songs listed in Whitburn's books, including Pop Memories. That was when Lancefer and MusicProf (aka Bob Moke) were heading the project - Bullfrog took over years later - he resides in the UK!

Anyhow, I now verify the Whitburn books that I use by generating a SS from the original charts (I have shared many on this forum). I include the original charts so anybody can verify the accuracy of my work (so I can fix it - I'm not perfect) and I also include a tab "RR errors" listing inconsistencies with Whitburn's books. I also was aware of issues with his Cash Box and Record World books before their publication as I was tabulating them with some help from the Cash Box team and their contacts with Record Research. My two biggest issues with Record Research is that they are not transparent in their methods (like the 1959 RW Beat of the Week methodology) and that they do not post corrections to their books. I sent them over 40 updates for their "Pop Hits 1940-1954" but because the book will never be updated no one will know about them. I suggested they post a pdf on their website but that went nowhere. They did update many of the errors I found in their "Top Pop Singles" although folks who owned the previous edition would not be aware of them. So I have a love/hate relationship with them. Unfortunately their business is struggling, they have a skeleton staff, and Joel is getting up there in years.

For the Pop Memories book, you can read these two articles:

http://www.timbrooks.net/review-whitbur ... ries-1987/

http://www.timbrooks.net/review-whitbur ... ries-1990/
DrTravel
Roadie
 
Posts: 265
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2014

Postby RokinRobinOfLocksley » Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:00 pm

^^^ Most interesting reading DrTravel. Thanks much...
User avatar
RokinRobinOfLocksley
Groupie
 
Posts: 88
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013
Location: Richmond, Virginia, USA

Postby mario » Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:37 pm

DrTravel is real "Superstar"!!
Thanks!
mario
Manager
 
Posts: 2965
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2004
Location: Shizuoka, Japan

Postby kjell » Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:17 am

DrTravel wrote:
And I'm deeply disappointed to learn these facts about my PM 1890-1954.
I bought my first Record Research book back in the early 70's - it was the second edition of his "Top Pop Singles". Have bought every one since and currently have over 50 of his books on my shelf. His books were the music bible for me. As time went by I started discovering errors and with the increased availability of internet material discovered many more oddities. I got involved in this chart thing when I compiled my first spreadsheet for the Mainstream and Modern Rock charts - that's what I listen to! That required many visits to the library but I got a complete set of these charts! Of course some got a hold of my SS and are making money off my work (i.e. http://www.song-database.com). I got even more involved with the Whitburn Project (google it) where we were collecting all songs listed in Whitburn's books, including Pop Memories. That was when Lancefer and MusicProf (aka Bob Moke) were heading the project - Bullfrog took over years later - he resides in the UK!

Anyhow, I now verify the Whitburn books that I use by generating a SS from the original charts (I have shared many on this forum). I include the original charts so anybody can verify the accuracy of my work (so I can fix it - I'm not perfect) and I also include a tab "RR errors" listing inconsistencies with Whitburn's books. I also was aware of issues with his Cash Box and Record World books before their publication as I was tabulating them with some help from the Cash Box team and their contacts with Record Research. My two biggest issues with Record Research is that they are not transparent in their methods (like the 1959 RW Beat of the Week methodology) and that they do not post corrections to their books. I sent them over 40 updates for their "Pop Hits 1940-1954" but because the book will never be updated no one will know about them. I suggested they post a pdf on their website but that went nowhere. They did update many of the errors I found in their "Top Pop Singles" although folks who owned the previous edition would not be aware of them. So I have a love/hate relationship with them. Unfortunately their business is struggling, they have a skeleton staff, and Joel is getting up there in years.

For the Pop Memories book, you can read these two articles:

http://www.timbrooks.net/review-whitbur ... ries-1987/

http://www.timbrooks.net/review-whitbur ... ries-1990/
Thanks a lot Dr. Travel. I have bought some 40 Whitburn books since 78 and have tried to get them correct the wrong peak position of Way Down without effect. Special thanks for the links, I'll study them thoroughly. Still enjoying your works on the three major US chart publications. Guess I'll change my trust to Edward Foote Gardner for US pop music prior to 1940.
Would you happen to have more Music Reporter/Music Business charts than David has posted on
his American Radio History site?
kjell
Groupie
 
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007
Location: Oslo, Norway

Postby DrTravel » Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:34 pm

The curious case of 1940-1955 charts according to Whitburn. Joel's original pop chart research began in 1955 (the birth of rock 'n' roll, i.e. when "Rock Around The Clock" was released) although he followed up with C&W beginning with 1944 and R&B since 1942 - both since their inception. Guess there was no significant record for those genres that defined the modern era. Too bad Joel didn't start his pop research since it's inception July 27, 1940. He then released his Pop Memories 1890-1954. In this book for the 1940-1955 period he did incorporate Billboard's pop charts (Best Seller, Disc Jockey, Jukebox) and a host of other sources - again he was adding made up chart data to that found on official Billboard charts. Later he published his Pop Hits 1940-1954 which contained data from Billboard's three official national pop charts.

This book also contained data from "The Record Buying Guide" to cover the January to July 20, 1940 period to "complete the chart history of 1940"! Unfortunately this guide combined all versions of a hit song into one listing and was unnumbered. Definitely not a chart that was consistent with the national Best Seller chart beginning on July 27, 1940. He just used the posted guide and gave them numbers based on the order presented and also gave that erroneous position to only the first version of a song listed - this chart often included many versions at each position. A comparison of the July 20, 1940 guide and the July 27, 1940 Best Sellers chart is night and day but Joel used both and even combined chart runs for songs that appeared on both.

But he wasn't done, Joel also included data for Regional Best Sellers. So songs that appeared on one of the regional charts (East, Midwest, South and West Coast) but not the national Best Seller chart (Top 10 only) were listed as if they were on the national chart, albeit in positions 11+. Really? So a song that peaked at #1 on ONLY ONE regional chart was credited as peaking #11 on the national chart. But let's add some more confusion! For songs that appeared on the three official charts (Best Sellers, Disc Jockey and Juke Box) he combined their chart data into one listing. Assume a song made all three charts, the songs entry date came from the chart it first appeared on, the peak position came from the chart with the highest position, weeks charted came from the chart with the most weeks. So it was possible (and yes it occurred) that the chart data presented in the book came from three different chart runs. This method was also utilized for the period 1955-1958. So if you compared chart data for 1940-1955 presented in Pop Memories and Pop Hits, well I get a headache do to all the inconsistencies! Does the average reader have any clue? Probably not.

Fortunately for Ukmix readers I provided a SS containing all the original official charts for 1940-1958 and derived chart data for each chart. This required trips to two major libraries in the US (i.e. New York and Washington DC - no where near where I live) to get copies of ALL the original charts. Had to do it right. So at least we have the correct data - of course, there are always possibilities for errors - some of my copies are not crystal clear as the source wasn't perfect, but I think I got 'em!

Enough ragging on Whitburn, time to get back to the 1967 Record World charts - isn't that the point of this thread?!
DrTravel
Roadie
 
Posts: 265
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2014

Postby kjell » Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:11 pm

Yes, of course the threads reason for being is RW, but you've added an in depth analysis of RRs shortcomings that may be reason enough for another thread with corrections. Would have been wonderful to get the Memories era half as precise as I used to believe it was. After all, reliable chart rankings of the main music sectors are what we're working for, and the work of you and your associates makes the most important breakthrough in recent years.
kjell
Groupie
 
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007
Location: Oslo, Norway

Postby RokinRobinOfLocksley » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:52 pm

Thanks again DrTravel for all you Whitburn book notes and fact findings, most helpful. I knew of several of your points, didn't know others.

I would be in favor of a "Whitburn Books Corrections/Transparencies" thread, not to bash our friend Joel, but to better document and bring clarity to what he was actually doing. His interpretations, assumptions, yada yada, and occasional errors. It would have been super if he had done this himself over the years, but as his staffer supposedly said it isn't going to happen now.
User avatar
RokinRobinOfLocksley
Groupie
 
Posts: 88
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013
Location: Richmond, Virginia, USA

Postby kjell » Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:38 pm

The RR corrections to the Whitburn chart books are adequately placed connected to their respective Dr. Travel spreadsheets.
The real problem rests with the pre July 1940 "charts" and to some extent with the "hits" outside Billboard best sellers 1940-54.
This problem is more complicated than meets the eye at first sight. Different publications use different sources and record sales seem to have only minor influence in the compilations of the different charts. Sources named range from sheet music to vaudeville, shows, movie singers, label catalogs, trade publications and more or less speculations. Pop Memories has the most comprehensive list of "hits", and probably also the highest percentage of unreal hits. One may wonder whether sheet music sales alone would have given a better compilation of the popular pre 40 music market. However, the first Pop Memories book at least lists more than 1000 recorded tunes by mostly popular artists of the period.
One should of course make a comparison of all hits from all known published sources of the era to distinguish those that were named by several sources. I've made an evaluation of the work this will amount to, and after having designed the project I'm somewhat doubtful whether it will be worth the effort. The two main sources by Whitburn and Gardner alone lists roughly speaking respectively about 12000 and 4000 song versions.
kjell
Groupie
 
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007
Location: Oslo, Norway

Postby kjell » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:56 pm

I'm studying the first ever British top 120 chart which commenced in 1978. The chart is known to have added a minor percentage of AirPlay. What puzzled me was the information that the paper got the idea to include AirPlay from Record World. I didn't know that RW included that, and I still don't know how big part the AirPlay played in the compilation of the RW charts. In fact I believed the idea came from Radio Caroline who announced that they included AirPlay in order to locate coming hits ahead of other British competitors of the time.
Who knows for which time period and percentage?
kjell
Groupie
 
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007
Location: Oslo, Norway

Postby DrTravel » Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:19 am

Thought I already posted this - here are the 1967 Record World charts plus the bubbling under:

http://www15.zippyshare.com/v/QXRORgTu/file.html

Only have 1968 & 1969 to go to complete the Top 100 chart
DrTravel
Roadie
 
Posts: 265
Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2014

Postby Swampy61 » Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:05 am

Thanks as always Dr.T.

Look forward to you publishing the final two years to complete the Music Vendor / Record World Top 100 Charts.

When you originally produced the charts from the 70's and 80's you didn't include the "bubbling under" charts.

Do you have any plans to include these in the future?
Swampy61
Groupie
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2015

Return to Chart Analysis