... Isn't #1 on the Billboard 200

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Postby WolfSpear » Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:25 am

I figured with since this has become more commonplace, I'd figure we'd run down some of the albums that have been #1 on Top Albums Sales but have ranked lower on the Billboard 200. As you all know, the December 13, 2014 issue added TEA and SEA to the mix, causing the Billboard 200 to reflect overall popularity by more than just album sales. Some of us like this change while others have ridiculed it. As time moves on, I'm sure the differences will be rather striking in comparison.

The layout for the page is as follows:

Calendar Year
Chart Date
#1 Top Albums Sales: Title - Artist (Rounded Sales Numbers) [Rank on Opposing Chart]
#1 Billboard 200: Title - Artist (Rounded Sales + TEA/SEA) [Rank on Opposing Chart]

2015
February 21, 2015
#1 Top Album Sales: NOW 53 - Various Artists (99,320) [#2]
#1 Billboard 200: 1989 - Taylor Swift (76,770 + 31,220) [#2]

March 28, 2015
#1 Top Album Sales : Rebel Heart - Madonna (116,110) [#2]
#1 Billboard 200: Empire: Original Soundtrack From Season 1 - Soundtrack (109,600 + 20,400) [#2]

April 25, 2015
#1 Top Album Sales: Future Hearts - All Time Low (75,380) [#2]
#1 Billboard 200: Furious 7 - Soundtrack (45,080 + 64,920) [#2]

September 26, 2015
#1 Top Album Sales: Got Your Six - Five Finger Death Punch (114,260) [#2]
#1 Billboard 200: Beauty Behind The Madness - The Weeknd (77,270 + 67,370) [#2]

October 3, 2015
#1 Top Album Sales: That's The Spirit - Bring Me The Horizon (55,180) [#2]
#1 Billboard 200: Beauty Behind The Madness - The Weeknd (48,150 + 50,080) [#3]

October 17, 2015
#1 Top Album Sales: Cass County - Don Henley (87,360) [#3]
#1 Billboard 200: Fetty Wap - Fetty Wap (75,480 + 53,520) [#3]

2016
February 27, 2016
#1 Top Album Sales: 25 - Adele (101,880) [#2]
#1 Billboard 200: Evol - Future (99,960 + 33,040) [#2]

April 2, 2016
#1 Top Album Sales: Hymns - Joey + Rory (44,060) [#4]
#1 Billboard 200: Anti - Rihanna (17,030 + 36,970) [#10]

April 23, 2016
#1 Top Album Sales: Traveller - Chris Stapleton (59,220) [#2]
#1 Billboard 200: Life Of Pablo - Kanye West (28,000 + 66,000) [#6]

June 4, 2016
#1 Top Album Sales: Lemonade - Beyoncé (91,740) [#2]
#1 Billboard 200: Views - Drake (82,930 + 156,070) [#3]

June 11, 2016
#1 Top Album Sales: If I'm Honest - Blake Shelton (153,030) [#3]
#1 Billboard 200: Views - Drake (50,270 + 138,730) [#4]

June 18, 2016
#1 Top Album Sales: Black - Dierks Bentley (87,730) [#2]
#1 Billboard 200: Views - Drake (36,860 + 115,140) [#5]

June 25, 2016
#1 Top Album Sales: Stranger To Stranger - Paul Simon (66,960) [#2]
#1 Billboard 200: Views - Drake (31,600 + 103,400) [#5]

July 2, 2016
#1 Top Album Sales: This Year Was Complicated - Nick Jonas (46,510) [#2]
#1 Billboard 200: Views - Drake (26,670 + 95,230) [#5]

July 9, 2016
#1 Top Album Sales: The Getaway - The Red Hot Chili Peppers (107,750) [#2]
#1 Billboard 200: Views - Drake (33,290 + 90,710) [#4]

July 16, 2016
#1 Top Album Sales: True Sadness - The Avett Brothers (43,180) [#3]
#1 Billboard 200: Views - Drake (24,800 + 86,200) [#3]

July 30, 2016
#1 Top Album Sales: Blank Face LP - ScHoolboy Q (51,720) [#2]
#1 Billboard 200: Views - Drake (17,950 + 74,150) [#7]

August 6, 2016
#1 Top Album Sales: Hard Love - NEEDTOBREATHE (46,020) [#2]
#1 Billboard 200: Views - Drake (16,270 + 72,730) [#9]

August 13, 2016
#1 Top Album Sales: Everybody Looking- Gucci Mane Q (43,460) [#2]
#1 Billboard 200: Views - Drake (15,680 + 69,320) [#5]

September 24, 2016
#1 Top Album Sales: Bad Vibrations - A Day To Remember (61,800) [#2]
#1 Billboard 200: Birds In The Trap Sing McKnight - Travis Scott (52,780 + 35,220) [#2]

October 8, 2016
#1 Top Album Sales: Sinner - Aaron Lewis (39,200) [#4]
#1 Billboard 200: Views - Drake (8,100 + 44,900) [#22]

October 22, 2016
#1 Top Album Sales: 22, A Million - Bon Iver (57,890) [#2]
#1 Billboard 200: A Seat At The Table - Solange (45,840 + 24,160) [#2]

November 19, 2016
#1 Top Album Sales: Cosmic Hallelujah - Kenny Chesney (79,490) [#2]
#1 Billboard 200: Trap Or Die 3 - Jeezy (73,190 + 15,810) [#2]

December 3, 2016 *
#1 Top Album Sales: The Ultimate Collection - Garth Brooks (134,000) [N/A]
#1 Billboard 200: We Got It From Here... Thank You 4 Your Service - A Tribe Called Quest (111,880 + 23,020) [#1]

* Garth Brooks' The Ultimate Collection is ineligible to appear on Billboard's charts due to a pricing rule. The 10 disc box set was originally sold for $29.99, and Billboard requires an average of $3.49 a disc in order to chart (29.99/10 = 2.99). After an album has been available on the market for 4 weeks, it becomes eligible regardless of its pricing. Garth did have the top selling album of the week, but again, he does not appear on either Top Album Sales or the Billboard 200.

2017
January 21, 2017
#1 Top Album Sales: Moana - Soundtrack (44,020) [#2]
#1 Billboard 200: Starboy - The Weeknd (17,900 + 51,100) [#5]

January 28, 2017
#1 Top Album Sales: La La Land - Soundtrack (29,890) [#2]
#1 Billboard 200: Starboy - The Weeknd (13,620 + 49,380) [#6]

February 4, 2017
#1 Top Album Sales: I See You - The XX (35,920) [#2]
#1 Billboard 200: Starboy - The Weeknd (12,850 + 48,150) [#7]

February 11, 2017
#1 Top Album Sales: The Search For Everything: Wave One - John Mayer (38,140) [#2]
#1 Billboard 200: Starboy - The Weeknd (12,010 + 43,990) [#10]

February 18, 2017
#1 Top Album Sales: The Devil Don't Sleep - Brantley Gilbert (66,210) [#2]
#1 Billboard 200: Culture - Migos (44,450 + 86,550) [#2]

April 1, 2017
#1 Top Album Sales: Hardwired... To Self Destruct - Metallica (95,540) [#2]
#1 Billboard 200: ÷ - Ed Sheeran (86,620 + 93,380) [#2]

April 15, 2017
#1 Top Album Sales: Hardwired... To Self Destruct - Metallica (48,130) [#5]
#1 Billboard 200: More Life - Drake (43,330 + 181,670) [#4]

April 22, 2017
#1 Top Album Sales: Emperor Of Sand - Mastodon (41,040) [#7]
#1 Billboard 200: More Life - Drake (16,250 + 119,750) [#10]

May 20, 2017
#1 Top Album Sales: Humanz - Gorillaz (115,060) [#2]
#1 Billboard 200: DAMN. - Kendrick Lamar (56,560 + 116.440) [#3]

May 27, 2017
#1 Top Album Sales: From A Room: Volume 1 - Chris Stapleton (202,150) [#2]
#1 Billboard 200: Everybody - Logic (195,990 +51,050) [#2]

June 17, 2017
#1 Top Album Sales: Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band - The Beatles (71,040) [#3]
#1 Billboard 200: True To Self - Bryson Tiller (47,440 + 59,560) [#2]

July 15, 2017
#1 Top Album Sales: Evolve - Imagine Dragons (109,090) [#2]
#1 Billboard 200: Grateful - DJ Khaled (49,530 + 99,470) [#2]

July 22, 2017
#1 Top Album Sales: Hydrograd - Stone Sour (30,310) [#8]
#1 Billboard 200: Grateful - DJ Khaled (15,630 + 54,370) [#4]

August 26, 2017
#1 Top Album Sales: Brett Eldredge - Brett Eldredge (36,200) [#2]
#1 Billboard 200: DAMN. - Kendrick Lamar (11,400 + 35,600) [#6]

September 16, 2017
#1 Top Album Sales: Villains - Queens Of The Stone Age (68,610) [#3]
#1 Billboard 200: Luv Is Rage 2 - Lil Uzi Vert (28,330 + 106,670) [#4]
Last edited by WolfSpear on Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:20 am, edited 51 times in total.
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Postby borderwolf » Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:51 am

Thanks! Good idea!
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Postby HolidayGuy » Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:10 pm

Thanks- I've tracked this, as well (as well as titles that were among the top 10-selling albums and not top 10 on the BB 200, etc.).

Suggestion: I'd alter the thread title to "...Isn't #1 on the BB 200." Just because some consider No. 1 on Top Album Sales to be as impressive a feat as it was pre-December 2014. Especially for veteran acts who've recorded for decades- they don't appeal nearly as much to the streaming-obsessed generation.)

(I maintain that TEA and streaming have no business on an albums-oriented chart, no matter how album sales have dropped- that's what the Hot 100 is for. It's been TEA that have impacted the BB 200 the most since Dec. 2014, but streaming certainly has in a couple of instances, especially RE Drake's album. Pure album sales are still viable, even if they're not at levels of the past. But I'm not a Billboard employee.)
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Postby WolfSpear » Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:00 pm

Title has been modified.

As of today, we still haven't seen any albums topping either chart and completely missing the top 10 on the opposing chart. Kanye West's Life of Pablo has come the closest to doing so, maintaining a #6 peak on Top Album Sales. Of course, that's because this album was only available through Tidal.

When will see titles missing the top 10? That's only bound to happen in the near future.
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Postby iHypeMusic » Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:02 pm

6 weeks in 2015 where this occured, and 8 weeks in the first half of 2016 alone (with a 9th and 10th week coming as Drake is also #1 this week and next week) lol. I wonder how much weeks it'll be in a few years.
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Postby HolidayGuy » Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:03 pm

This marks the 15th week since Dec. 2014 that the top-selling album also wasn't No. 1 on the multi-metric 200 (and the 12th instance in which the top-selling album didn't peak at No. on the aforementioned chart).
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Postby fridayteenage » Wed Jun 29, 2016 4:32 pm

Along those lines, if there isn't a different thread for it:

T10s BB200-Only (Artist, Title, Sales-Only Position[s])
V 50 Shades of Grey, OST, #21 & #12 & #14 & #14 & #15
Adele, 25, #12
- T10 Sales Only #12
Alessia Cara, Know It All, #12
IV Ariana Grande, My Everything, #16 & #26 & #26 & #29
Asap Rocky, At Long Last Asap, #12
Beyonce, Beyonce Platinum Edition More EP, #17
Big Sean, Dark Sky Paradise, #12
VI Bryson Tiller, Trapsoul, #14 & #12 & #24 & #20 & #18 & #22
Chance the Rapper, Coloring Book, #N/A
VII Drake, If You're Reading This, #13 & #14 & #21 & #20 & #30 & #30 & #30
Drake and Future, What a Time to Be Alive, #15 & #23 & #27 & #47
XVII Ed Sheeran, X, #18 & #15 & #11 & #12 & #11 & #11 & #12 & #16 & #14 & #11 & #12 & #13 & #12 & #15 & #14 & #17 & #17
- T10 Sales Only #11
X Fetty Wap, Fetty Wap, #13 & #16 & #20 & #28 & #38 & #30 & #16 & #19 & #25 & #39
Flume, Skin, #12
Frozen, OST, #12
VI Furious Seven, OST, #12 & #17 & #22 & #23 & #36 & #39
Future, DS2, #15 & #21
Future, Evol, #17
G-Eazy, When It’s Dark Out, #19 & #20
IV Hozier, Hozier, #19 & #12 & #13 & #11
- T10 Sales Only #11
VIII Justin Bieber, Purpose, #11 & #12 & #11 & #14 & #14 & #18 & #27 & #33
Kanye, Life of Pablo, ? & ?
IV Kevin Gates, Islah, #11 & #12 & #15 & #14
Kelly Clarkson, Piece by Piece, #11
Lukas Graham, Lukas Graham #22
Mark Ronson, Uptown Special, #31 & #40
XVII Maroon Five, V, #11 & #12 & #19 & #19 & #11 & #15 & #17 & #16 & #15 & #19 & #17 & #31 & #26 & #35 & #30 & #31 & #45
Meek Mill, Dreams Worth More than Money, #15
IX Meghan Trainor, Title, #14 & #13 & #13 & #11 & #11 & #19 & #19 & #18 & #18
Michael Buble, Christmas, #13
- T10 Sales Only #11
IV Nicki Minaj, Pinkprint, #12 & #12 & #14 & #13
One Direction, Four, #11
XII Rihanna, Anti, #12 & #16 & #12 & #14 & #15 & #18 & #20 & #19 & #23 & #28 & #29 & #26
X Sam Hunt, Montevallo, #16 & #13 & #13 & #14 & #11 & #13 & #17 & #14 & #13
- T10 Sales Only #13
III Sam Smith, In the Lonely Hour, #11 & #14 & #11
Sawyer Fredericks, Voice Season Seven Collection, #25
Selena Gomez, Revival, #18 & #17
V Taylor Swift, 1989, #11 & #11 & #13 & #11 & #11
- T10 Sales Only #12
Thomas Rhett, Tangled Up, #14
XIV Twenty One Pilots, Blurryface, #12 & #13 & #12 & #15 & #13 & #12 & #14 & #15 & #14 & #18 & #22 & #22 & #19 & #18
XII Weeknd, Beauty Behind the Madness, #12 & #12 & #17 & #18 & #18 & #15 & #11 & 13 & #20 & #16 & #20 & #17
Zayn, Mind of Mine, #16
Interesting to see if Rihanna and 21 Pilots take the lead eventually.

Multiple-Wk T10s Sales-Only (Artist, Title, BB200 Position[s]):
Annie, OST, #12 & #13
Chris Brown, Royalty, #12 & #14
V Chris Stapleton, Traveller, #14 & #11 & #12 & #13 & #13
Easton Corbin, About to Get Real, #13 & #15
*Frozen, OST, #11 & #11
Garth Brooks, Man Against Machine, #11 & #13
III Grammy Nominees, 2015, #12 & #15 & #17
Grammy Nominees, 2016, #17 & #21
Hamilton, OST, #12 & #16
Idina Menzel, Holiday Wishes, #13 & #12
III Joey + Rory, Hymns, #18 & #15 & #16
Kendrick Lamar, To Pimp a Butterfly, #14 & #16
Kidz Bop, 27, #13 & #13
Kidz Bop, 30, #12 & #15
Josh Groban, Stages, #18 & #13
Mumford and Sons, Wilder Mind, #12 & #14
III Now, 53, #11 & #18 & #19
Now, 55, #15 & #23
III Now, 57, #13 & #18 & #21
Star Wars, OST, #17 & #26
III Zac Brown Band, Jekyll and Hyde, #12 & #11 & #14
Possible: Pentatonix's Christmas #13
Chris Stapleton stands alone and looks to extend his lead. Country gets about zero streaming and he doesn't exactly have hits.
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Postby HolidayGuy » Fri Jul 01, 2016 3:02 pm

I've also been keeping track of albums to reach the top 10 on Album Sales (also for the not-as-lofty top 40).
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Postby WolfSpear » Tue Jul 05, 2016 8:45 pm

Things have been updated through this week. If there are any errors, than please let me know. I'm trying to round sales figures to the nearest tenth where possible. The total units moved is going to be the nearest thousandth, since I'm going by Billboard numbers.

Anyways, within the next day, I will be including stats from 2009 when Michael Jackson claimed the top seller but was barred from a true #1 due to chart restrictions. We will take a look back...
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Postby HolidayGuy » Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:02 am

Good idea. Since SoundScan's start in 1991, I think Number Ones was the only title to be the top-selling album across the board (for which figures were reported/available) and not feature on the Billboard 200.

There were instances that a catalog title would have ranked top 10 from 1991-2009, but they were titles that had already peaked in the top 10, as far as I recall (Kenny G.'s holiday album, Grease, Thriller, etc.)
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Postby WolfSpear » Wed Jul 06, 2016 5:39 pm

Here is a recap of the sales weeks following Michael Jackson's death. As you may know, the Billboard 200 had restrictions on catalog titles since May 25, 1991. Between that day and July 11, 2009, no catalog titles had sold enough to be #1 overall. There have been a few occasions where catalog titles would have hypothetically made the top 10. An example would be Kenny G's Miracles: The Holiday Album and the soundtrack to Grease...

So below are the 6 weeks in which Michael Jackson's Number Ones claimed the top position on the Comprehensive Albums chart, the all encompassing sales chart which is known as Top Album Sales now. The Billboard 200 as it was in 2009 is currently known as Top Current Albums and continues to apply the same catalog title restrictions (also lacks the streams).

July 11, 2009
#1 Top Comprehensive Albums: Number Ones - Michael Jackson (107,810) [N/A]
#1 Billboard 200: The E.N.D. - The Black Eyed Peas (87,970) [#4]

July 18, 2009
#1 Top Comprehensive Albums: Number Ones - Michael Jackson (339,230) [N/A]
#1 Billboard 200: NOW! 31 (169,260) [#3]

July 25, 2009
#1 Top Comprehensive Albums: Number Ones - Michael Jackson (348,510) [N/A]
#1 Billboard 200: BLACKsummers'night - Maxwell (316,500) [#2]

August 8, 2009
#1 Top Comprehensive Albums: Number Ones - Michael Jackson (153,610) [N/A]
#1 Billboard 200: Here We Go Again - Demi Lovato (108,440) [#2]

August 15, 2009
#1 Top Comprehensive Albums: Number Ones - Michael Jackson (114,000) [N/A]
#1 Billboard 200: Loso's Way - Fabolous (98,610) [#2]

August 22, 2009
#1 Top Comprehensive Albums: Number Ones - Michael Jackson (98,000) [N/A]
#1 Billboard 200: Live On The Inside - Sugarland (75,870) [#2]
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Postby HolidayGuy » Mon Jul 25, 2016 1:40 pm

Another week, another set of dual No. 1s on Album Sales and the multi-metric chart. This marks the 18th instance of such since December 2014 (nine out of the last 10 weeks, to boot). Just three of the instances were albums that previously had hit No. 1 on the multi-metric chart.
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Postby NothingFails » Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:58 pm

I love that the media is catching onto this.... someone really stans hard for Drake at BB and it isn't cute anymore. When his album is selling 15k and is #8 yet somehow winds up #1 because a few stans constantly play his songs on a loop makes a joke of the album chart. It would be one thing if Drake was this major pop cultural entity the way Taylor or Beyonce (whose Lemonade frequently outsells Views every week... and Lemonade also made a much bigger dent in our collective conscience) but alas, he's closer to someone like Men At Work were.

Why Drake isn't as popular as Michael Jackson
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Postby stevyy » Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:25 pm

NothingFails wrote:I love that the media is catching onto this.... someone really stans hard for Drake at BB and it isn't cute anymore. When his album is selling 15k and is #8 yet somehow winds up #1 because a few stans constantly play his songs on a loop makes a joke of the album chart. It would be one thing if Drake was this major pop cultural entity the way Taylor or Beyonce (whose Lemonade frequently outsells Views every week... and Lemonade also made a much bigger dent in our collective conscience) but alas, he's closer to someone like Men At Work were.

Why Drake isn't as popular as Michael Jackson
!!! the link says it all. I could name my own chart BB200 and it would be as representative as the real one.
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Postby NothingFails » Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:32 pm

I know that Drake's album is "more popular" but the BB200 has always been about *sales*. It's no different than how box office grosses are about ticket purchases as opposed to "popular". I mean, whether good or bad, the Ghostbusters reboot was all over social media for a week or two, if we count YouTube reviews and tweets and whatever, it was technically "more talked about" than Secret Life Of Pets was the same weeks (and I thought SLOP was really cute).... by this logic, though SLOP kicked its ass in ticket sales, should Ghostbusters have technically been the #1 movie at the box office because it was more talked about and had more of a presence on social media? Same with how NCIS is the #1 show on US tv, but Game Of Thrones gets ten times the amount of social media presence, discussion, YouTube views, etc..., so should GOT knock NCIS out of the top spot because of its social media presence even if it received 1/3 the actual viewers because while more people watch NCIS, more people discuss what happened on the last GOT episode and make social media about it. I mean, I've never seen websites have recaps of the previous nights NCIS episode the way Game Of Thrones does. Is that any different than people who stream Drake songs and watch clips on YouTube but they aren't actually buying the cd?
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Postby stevyy » Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:35 am

NothingFails wrote:I know that Drake's album is "more popular" but the BB200 has always been about *sales*. It's no different than how box office grosses are about ticket purchases as opposed to "popular". I mean, whether good or bad, the Ghostbusters reboot was all over social media for a week or two, if we count YouTube reviews and tweets and whatever, it was technically "more talked about" than Secret Life Of Pets was the same weeks (and I thought SLOP was really cute).... by this logic, though SLOP kicked its ass in ticket sales, should Ghostbusters have technically been the #1 movie at the box office because it was more talked about and had more of a presence on social media? Same with how NCIS is the #1 show on US tv, but Game Of Thrones gets ten times the amount of social media presence, discussion, YouTube views, etc..., so should GOT knock NCIS out of the top spot because of its social media presence even if it received 1/3 the actual viewers because while more people watch NCIS, more people discuss what happened on the last GOT episode and make social media about it. I mean, I've never seen websites have recaps of the previous nights NCIS episode the way Game Of Thrones does. Is that any different than people who stream Drake songs and watch clips on YouTube but they aren't actually buying the cd?
I agree on everything. + this whole music consumption debate is not true to the thing itself because while non-buyer stream and stream the song(s) every day, I buy 1 copy and then stream it privately, shouldn't my private streams also count? My streams are ignored, while others are counted. I only get 1 purchase in and am reflected by that, others have 1 song on a loop and get idk 25 "copies".
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Postby NothingFails » Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:45 am

stevyy wrote:
NothingFails wrote:I know that Drake's album is "more popular" but the BB200 has always been about *sales*. It's no different than how box office grosses are about ticket purchases as opposed to "popular". I mean, whether good or bad, the Ghostbusters reboot was all over social media for a week or two, if we count YouTube reviews and tweets and whatever, it was technically "more talked about" than Secret Life Of Pets was the same weeks (and I thought SLOP was really cute).... by this logic, though SLOP kicked its ass in ticket sales, should Ghostbusters have technically been the #1 movie at the box office because it was more talked about and had more of a presence on social media? Same with how NCIS is the #1 show on US tv, but Game Of Thrones gets ten times the amount of social media presence, discussion, YouTube views, etc..., so should GOT knock NCIS out of the top spot because of its social media presence even if it received 1/3 the actual viewers because while more people watch NCIS, more people discuss what happened on the last GOT episode and make social media about it. I mean, I've never seen websites have recaps of the previous nights NCIS episode the way Game Of Thrones does. Is that any different than people who stream Drake songs and watch clips on YouTube but they aren't actually buying the cd?
I agree on everything. + this whole music consumption debate is not true to the thing itself because while non-buyer stream and stream the song(s) every day, I buy 1 copy and then stream it privately, shouldn't my private streams also count? My streams are ignored, while others are counted. I only get 1 purchase in and am reflected by that, others have 1 song on a loop and get idk 25 "copies".
The problem is that today's youth has been raised to receive participation trophies and everything is supposed to be altered to pamper them
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Postby WolfSpear » Tue Jul 26, 2016 1:56 am

Interesting how Drake would have been a 2 week number one on the old system. Pure album sales really don't tell the full story, especially in 2016. A lot of these #1 weeks have had appalling album sales - figures unheard of a decade ago.
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Postby NothingFails » Tue Jul 26, 2016 2:07 am

WolfSpear wrote:Interesting how Drake would have been a 2 week number one on the old system. Pure album sales really don't tell the full story, especially in 2016. A lot of these #1 weeks have had appalling album sales - figures unheard of a decade ago.
To be fair, TV ratings aren't what they used to be. The volume of viewers that shows like Seinfeld and Friends received on a given week in the 90s are almost non-existant today. TV consumption has changed, but yet the Nielsen's haven't been radically altered so "the really popular shows people actually talk about" like Walking Dead and Game Of Thrones aren't sitting higher than the NCIS type shows that constantly score the most viewers even if they have practically no social media presence.

It's basically them taking the album charts away from adults who pay for music to give it to kids who already own the singles chart, because unlike 20 years ago where kids were told to know their place and deal with the fact their parents like music too, now they have to be pampered and have rules changed to massage their feelings like their participation trophies.
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Postby WolfSpear » Wed Jul 27, 2016 3:31 am

Everything is up to date.

I added year separators to act as index points to makes the list easier to digest.
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Postby iHypeMusic » Wed Jul 27, 2016 5:22 am

NothingFails wrote:I love that the media is catching onto this.... someone really stans hard for Drake at BB and it isn't cute anymore. When his album is selling 15k and is #8 yet somehow winds up #1 because a few stans constantly play his songs on a loop makes a joke of the album chart. It would be one thing if Drake was this major pop cultural entity the way Taylor or Beyonce (whose Lemonade frequently outsells Views every week... and Lemonade also made a much bigger dent in our collective conscience) but alas, he's closer to someone like Men At Work were.

Why Drake isn't as popular as Michael Jackson
Lmao. The rule was set in November 2014, that 1500 streams = 1 sale = 10 tracks.

How on Earth is he being given special treatment by Billboard when this rule/formula was made over a year before the album was even released?

And to say "he's closer to Men at Work" than Taylor or Beyonce level is literally hilariously unreasonable and shows you just lack knowledge on his career. Drake is the 3rd top selling artist this decade in album sales in the US (ONLY behind Adele & Taylor), and Views has also outsold Lemonade to date + Drake has 17 top 10 hits. He is a big name point blank, hence him debuting with 850,000 sales first week which is the biggest debut of the entire year. Show me when Men At Work collected their 5th Platinum selling album, and did 850K first week with their 6th album, and their 17th top 10 hit since he's at their level.

stevyy wrote:
NothingFails wrote:I love that the media is catching onto this.... someone really stans hard for Drake at BB and it isn't cute anymore. When his album is selling 15k and is #8 yet somehow winds up #1 because a few stans constantly play his songs on a loop makes a joke of the album chart. It would be one thing if Drake was this major pop cultural entity the way Taylor or Beyonce (whose Lemonade frequently outsells Views every week... and Lemonade also made a much bigger dent in our collective conscience) but alas, he's closer to someone like Men At Work were.

Why Drake isn't as popular as Michael Jackson
!!! the link says it all. I could name my own chart BB200 and it would be as representative as the real one.
Lol as a fellow Mariah fan, was there also not a problem with Billboard when We Belong Together spent 14 weeks at #1 despite not being #1 in sales for even one week? You're being quite selective in having an issue with sales not counting enough.

The point is, no chart will ever be 100% accurate. Hot 100 has went through it's times, Billboard 200 has went through it's times (especially prior to Soundscan, it definitely was not 100% accurate). If you're expecting any chart in the world to be 100% accurate or depict what you want 100% fully, you're always going to be disappointed.

The reality is sales are slowly becoming a past. The #10 seller projected to sell 9K says enough, and for Billboard to keep the chart growing and sustaining they'll need to measure things such as streaming which is now very prevalent in consuming music.

Are they including streaming in the best way possible? Obviously debatable, but the point is, they can't be 100% accurate, they can only try to what they feel is correct.
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Postby stevyy » Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:23 pm

i was talking about albums... TEOM was #1 for 2 weeks and sold 6,1 million on soundscan: seethe.

Not 1 single "sale" came from We Belong Together, nor it's video, which at the time was the most watched video on AOL in a single week - at 5 million views.

the problem is that today's BB200 reflects albums sales, but also single streams. 1 single ain't an album and its sales aren't albums sales and cannot be compared nor adjusted into albums sales.

WBT was #1 for 14 weeks because of its airplay domination which (airplay) is sth the BBH100 included in the tabulation of the H100 since its inception. Personally, I rebuke the inclusion of airplay into a singles sales chart tho and I can proudly agree wth you about the fishiness of all singles which never topped the sales charts.

Altho, Through The Rain was #1 on the singles sales chart and never went higher than the low 80's position on the H100 - how is that fair? Obsessed sold 40,000 physical singles and was #1 for 4 consecutive weeks on the singles sales chart and peaked at #7. Fair?

You can easily strip MC's non sales #1's, but there are more songs that peaked at #1 on the sales chart, but weren't #1 on the H100.. so in the end, i'd support your critique and demand a recount for all those MC songs which were cheated out of the #1 position. Mariah would have like 21 #1's today (without WBT) :cry:
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Postby iHypeMusic » Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:59 am

stevyy wrote:i was talking about albums... TEOM was #1 for 2 weeks and sold 6,1 million on soundscan: seethe.

Not 1 single "sale" came from We Belong Together, nor it's video, which at the time was the most watched video on AOL in a single week - at 5 million views.

the problem is that today's BB200 reflects albums sales, but also single streams. 1 single ain't an album and its sales aren't albums sales and cannot be compared nor adjusted into albums sales.

WBT was #1 for 14 weeks because of its airplay domination which (airplay) is sth the BBH100 included in the tabulation of the H100 since its inception. Personally, I rebuke the inclusion of airplay into a singles sales chart tho and I can proudly agree wth you about the fishiness of all singles which never topped the sales charts.

Altho, Through The Rain was #1 on the singles sales chart and never went higher than the low 80's position on the H100 - how is that fair? Obsessed sold 40,000 physical singles and was #1 for 4 consecutive weeks on the singles sales chart and peaked at #7. Fair?

You can easily strip MC's non sales #1's, but there are more songs that peaked at #1 on the sales chart, but weren't #1 on the H100.. so in the end, i'd support your critique and demand a recount for all those MC songs which were cheated out of the #1 position. Mariah would have like 21 #1's today (without WBT) :cry:
Put it this way:

I personally, think Billboard was being logical to make airplay largely factored while sales were at the lowest. What do you think the public would say felt more like a #1 single - Mariah's Through the Rain or Eminem's Lose Yourself (was #1 in airplay the week Through the Rain was #1 in sales)? Which do you think the public is more familiar with and felt bigger?

Most of the entire public doesn't even know Through the Rain exists, and has never heard it so a #81 peak is much much more realistic than a #1. Meanwhile Eminem's song peaked #11 in sales, would a #1 or #11 peak be more realistic to how big the song was?

Sales were so low, you could go #1 on single sales with barely 10K. The public wasn't buying singles (except for American Idol coronations) it was simply fanbases, and CD collectors at that point. So while airplay is a bit messy, it was actually a format the public was still consuming, while physical singles were a dead pond.

The same is similar here with Streaming starting to be factored heavily while album sales are at all-time lows. NEEDTOBREATHE's album went #1 on sales with 40K sales, and probably won't sell 100K total. Is the public going to look back on this and will even 1% be familiar with this album? Drake's album continues to be streamed by millions and millions each week, getting over 85 million streams this recent week and has a handful of hit singles.

These charts are popularity based, not sales based. Music can be popular outside of sales, especially in 2016 when there's more ways than ever to consume music.

As I said, per One Dance's streams, is Billboard handling counting streams the best way possible? Not likely, but at the end of the day, they're never gonna come up with a balance everyone finds correct and that will always be correct. The chart hasn't lost it's meaning, it's just going through a time of revamp and evolution like it has in the past, and like the Hot 100 + others charts have .
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Postby stevyy » Fri Jul 29, 2016 10:32 am

the thing is, american charts and basically all charts in the world, were sales charts first and foremost (especially in regards to albums). However, BB changed that perception and tradition by turning the charts into a consumption chart. I mean streaming and all, did exist back in the 90's, 80's and 70's too. It was called Music Television back then. But the BB200 didn't factor in how many times a music video was played on MTV or VH1 in those years, but today they do. Where is the justice in that?

You cannot include sales, streams from the SINGLE into the album's popularity. If that was possible in the old days, don't you think each and every blockbuster album would have benefitted tremendously as well? I mean take the Bodyguard Soundtrack, it sold 17 million copies in the US, but the song itself (IWALY) sold 5 million physical copies and on top over 3 million digital copies... if the same strategy applied back then, ie a consumption chart, then that soundtrack would have probably been eligible for 30x platinum today.

The new strategy devalues the album as an artform, it blows up sales and favours the impact of the new generation and ultimately, blurs the lines of what is popular and what isn't. Because as an album, Views is not as popular as its chartrun suggests... it's a combination of a popular singles added to the album. But why does BB feel the need to basically abolish its singles chart and double count the performance of the single by including it in an album's chartrun. That's so ridiculous.

Speaking of TTR, Never Too Far (also #1 on the sales chart) or Obsessed (or Can't let Go, Loverboy etc).. you cannot change your tune whenever it's convenient for you. When you argue against WBT because it never was the most downloaded song during its 14 weeks reign at #1 on the H100, then you have to do the same in favour of the songs which were #1. (BTW, Loverboy sold twice as much as Bootylicious 265,000 in week #1 - for the same price, TTR sold 120,000 singles, Never Too Far made it to almost 100,000 and Obsessed stalled at 40,000 physical singles - limited availability). It's not like those songs sold almost nothing, they belonged to the top selling music products of their time.

I feel like the new formula was invented to justify the almost anal stanning of the media for younger artists, whose sales simply don't match their popularity within the confinements of the entertainment industry. How come the legends: Streisand or even Lionel Richie were able to outsell the biggest hitmakers on albums sales with quite some ease, but didn't get a fraction of the media support the youngsters got?

How come, the #1 selling single of week 51 of 2005, which was also ranked in the top 15 on airplay, AIWFCIY, didn't even chart in 2005 when it would have ranked in the T10 combined?

All in all, you cannot compare achievements of today with achievements of the past because the charts have undergone too many changes. So whenever BB releases another one of their "OH look, a record has been matched or broken" articles, you have to laugh it off, because BB did everything they could to make that happen in the first place. Maybe the magazine wants to appeal to T40 listeners, but their pandering to youth and fabulousness lost them a lot of credibility at the same time. It's like a 100 meters sprint, but instead of letting today's generation of runners run 100m, BB shortened the track to 50m and still compares the times.
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Postby NothingFails » Fri Jul 29, 2016 6:18 pm

Bravo to Stevyy's post.

I think it's ridiculous that some 13 year old who never pays for music can listen to a song to death on Spotify and it counts more than someone who buys a cd and plays the cd to death, but alas, that doesn't give them "points" even though that person actually voted with their wallet because they still see music as a commodity that artists should be compensated for.

It's basically the labels stroking themselves over whatever they can sell to gullible tweens. Can you imagine how many weeks Justin Bieber would've been #1 in 2010 had we used this method now? It's effectively taken away any actual value on Billboard chart positions because if you dare fall into some sort of box where your target audience isn't still in middle school, the cards are stacked against you.

I still would love someone to point out one instance where an older artist, a rock artist, an indie artist, an actual country artist (REAL country, not Taylor stuff), an r&b artist who hasn't completely lost their sound in favor of pop or EDM, etc... has benefitted from this SPS crap. I know two incidences, but David Bowie and Prince literally had to die to benefit from SPS (and is actually hurt as well... Dirty Mind could've had a higher peak than it had in 1981 on pure sales, it only really helped his compilations). How about artists who are still breathing who don't appeal to your average 13 year old top 40 listening pop stan? Adult consumers don't have the same sort of mania as tweens get.. but it doesn't mean their tastes somehow count less just because they don't need to watch a Drake video 300 times to drool over him.
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