BPI Certifications

Moderators: kingofskiffle, arab, AutomaticBR

 

Postby Edu » Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:07 pm

thebigham wrote:Why all of these big re-certifications?

Were these labels requesting new certs or is the BPI finally updating pre-1994 Catalog albums?
Sadly, and very sadly, to everyone who gives me some credit, and having I had access to some documentation about official Beatles sales figures in the UK, I must declare that BPI is transforming a LIE (an incorrect sales estimative for "Sgt. Pepper") in an official truth.

Was not EMI the responsable for this 17xP for "Pepper", it was BPI simply transforming their calculated sales in an official award.
We can say now, seeing that instead of the labels, it is BPI who decides what a catalog has sold album since its original release, that the BPI awards, for everyone like me, who has seen real documents, have lost their credibility.

After what RIAA did a few days ago this is indeed sad times for all of us searching for the truth of records sales.

The only hope of getting some truth regarding the UK sales of the Beatles seems to be each day more dependent of the content of the book "Toppermost"...
Last edited by Edu on Thu Mar 03, 2016 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Edu
Personal Assistant
 
Posts: 995
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004
Location: Coimbra, Portugal

Postby brian05 » Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:50 pm

In April 2014 BPI said,
"We should be starting the process of updating certifications over the next few weeks, wherever there’s data available for all-time sales from the Official Charts Company. So, as you mention, big sellers like Queen will get upgraded. It won’t be done in one fell swoop, but we’ll be working through the Official Charts’ lists to try and ensure parity with the sales they’ve reported." (Thanks to Zeus555)

It took a bit longer than they thought. :D

The UK Album Chart began on W/E 28th July 1956 and if they are preparing a greatest albums sales list over 60 years and a book they might have a cut-off point of end of March. So these new certifications might be in preparation for that anniversary.

There's obviously lots more albums from the 60s and 70s to be certified.
brian05
Manager
 
Posts: 2985
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005
Location: N Ireland

Postby Edu » Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:57 pm

brian05 wrote:There's obviously lots more albums from the 60s and 70s to be certified.
This is not a certification, it is rewriting sales history based not in documentation but in calculations...
User avatar
Edu
Personal Assistant
 
Posts: 995
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004
Location: Coimbra, Portugal

Postby Nackar » Fri Feb 05, 2016 8:38 pm

I'm happy to see these new certifications!
User avatar
Nackar
Legend
 
Posts: 14656
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011
Location: The Netherlands

Postby SimoneMJJ » Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:48 pm

Edu wrote:
brian05 wrote:There's obviously lots more albums from the 60s and 70s to be certified.
This is not a certification, it is rewriting sales history based not in documentation but in calculations...
How many copies sold that album in the truth?
User avatar
SimoneMJJ
Manager
 
Posts: 2643
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009
Location: Vasto (Italy)

Postby brian05 » Sat Feb 06, 2016 12:45 am

Edu - how may we purchase your book ... TOPPERMOST : THE BEATLES SALES STORY RECONSTRUCTED?
brian05
Manager
 
Posts: 2985
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005
Location: N Ireland

Postby brian05 » Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:58 pm

First ever BPI award for The Searchers.
SEARCHERS - THE VERY BEST OF
Silver Certification (Album) 12 February 2016
UNIVERSAL MUSIC (UMTV)
Released 12 May 2008

It took 8 years to reach 60,000 sales.
Chart run was: 11, 17, 23, 30, 28, 66, 90.

Music Week said in May 2008,
"The Searchers Very Best Of accordingly charts higher, entering at number 11 on sales of 9,598. Incredibly, it’s the Liverpudlian group’s first charted album since Sounds Like The Searchers in 1965.
brian05
Manager
 
Posts: 2985
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005
Location: N Ireland

Postby mansfield » Sun Feb 14, 2016 1:32 am

David Bowie - Backstar
PLATINUM
mansfield
Personal Assistant
 
Posts: 709
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004

Postby tada » Sun Feb 21, 2016 3:40 pm

25 9x Pl! awesome
User avatar
tada
Legend
 
Posts: 35891
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006
Location: Czech Republic

Postby brian05 » Mon Feb 22, 2016 5:18 pm

VARIOUS ARTISTS - THE SOLID SILVER 60S - GREATEST HITS
Silver Certification (Album) 19 February 2016
UNIVERSAL/WARNER (UMTV/WARNER MUSIC TV)
Released 11 September 2015
Certification History:
Silver Certification 22 July 2013

This is obviously wrong - You can't get a Silver certification in 2013 and another one in 2016.
There are two different albums with the same title. Surely BPI could distinguish them by their catalogue numbers?
brian05
Manager
 
Posts: 2985
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005
Location: N Ireland

Postby Robbie » Mon Feb 22, 2016 5:26 pm

brian05 wrote:VARIOUS ARTISTS - THE SOLID SILVER 60S - GREATEST HITS
Silver Certification (Album) 19 February 2016
UNIVERSAL/WARNER (UMTV/WARNER MUSIC TV)
Released 11 September 2015
Certification History:
Silver Certification 22 July 2013

This is obviously wrong - You can't get a Silver certification in 2013 and another one in 2016.
There are two different albums with the same title. Surely BPI could distinguish them by their catalogue numbers?
It looks like a mistake on the part of the BPI. Are they different albums or the same one? Also the release date looks wrong for one certification to have been awarded on 22 July 2013 (which was the date the automatic certification scheme was first introduced).
User avatar
Robbie
Manager
 
Posts: 4881
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2001
Location: Newcastle

Postby brian05 » Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:03 pm

There are 2 different albums for sale on Amazon with the same title.
If it was awarded Silver in 2013, why would you give it another Silver award?
Must be a BPI mistake. I did email them but got no response.
brian05
Manager
 
Posts: 2985
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005
Location: N Ireland

Postby Topicel » Wed Mar 02, 2016 9:49 pm

thebigham wrote:Why all of these big re-certifications?

Were these labels requesting new certs or is the BPI finally updating pre-1994 Catalog albums?
Well thebigham, you might indeed ask! It seems that the dear old BPI have lost the plot entirely like their sister organisation OCC and decided to simply let their awards scheme open to invention as the OCC have been doing with their charts of late!

The swathe of big re-certifications on February 5 that you’re referring to are, seemingly, based upon the estimated sales totals that the OCC published first concocted in their ‘Top 40 Best Selling Albums 28 July 1956 to 14 June 2009’ list that was prepared, if I recall correctly, to celebrate the 50th anniversary of Music Week in September 2009. There was an update in 2012 (& 2014?), but I'm unsure if anything more comprehensive has been published.

It must amaze and amuse you in equal measure that an award system that hitherto relied on some kind of input from the record labels to confirm sales had reached the certification level being requested (unlike your RIAA system which requires actual audit), could suddenly be highjacked as a result of guesswork. Whether this is informed, or otherwise, we no not, but someone, somewhere, has been busy with the calculator and estimated the figures which the BPI now see fit to validate for posterity. Roll over Beethoven and anyone else who might want an award (or awards) granted to them if they didn’t appear in that estimated list…you ain't entitled!

So, as has been noted elsewhere, the 1976 original ‘Abba Greatest Hits’ release is granted anonymously the status of 8xP because its sales were worked out to be 2,605,550 when it was placed No. 36 in the then (June 2009) Top 40 of UK Best Selling albums. Is the sale justified or supported by any record label? No it isn’t. Do we have any explanation or workings to back up the estimate on which the BPI has matched the certification status? No we haven’t.

Then there is 10xP for Simon & Garfunkel’s classic 1970 studio album ‘Bridge Over Troubled Water’ that has been granted because the OCC estimated its sales were 3,047,242 by June 2009. How they got to that level is admirable, if not astonishing, but that is the total they came up with for the then 17th bestselling UK album, and for an estimation it is as valid as most other ones I suppose, but it doesn’t mean the album sold that many and is absolutely deserving of ten platinum discs – at least not based on the tried and trusted authentification requirement from the record label.

This classic album pre-dated the inaugauration of the BPI award scheme by three years. Does it make a mockery of the previous myriad awards since the scheme started in 1973? Arguably yes, especially if the BPI aren’t going to extend their ‘gift’ of belated certification to all manner of albums both pre-dating and post-dating the outset of these awards!

Edu has addressed what seems like the most glaring error – the seventeen platinum awards belatedly bestowed upon ‘Sergeant Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band’, possibly the Beatles ultimate studio album from 1967. This has never been satisfactorily explained. But what about the even earlier 1965 release for ‘The Sound Of Music’ and its 8xP? Quite frankly that is paying lip-service to the greatest musical soundtrack of all time, an album which, in all its guises, certainly far exceeded 2.4m and might even be the biggest seller ever in Britain.

I’m beginning to wonder if I missed an expanded OCC sales list beneath the original Top 40 album sellers from 2009?

And how about those other soundtrack awards for ‘Saturday Night Fever’ (7xP) and ‘Grease’ (8xP), how were these conjured up? It seems like it was deemed necessary to have these certified for some reason, but how and why is beyond me.

In effect, with ‘Fever’ they are saying it has sold at least 2.1m copies since March 1978 yet it has had no significant upgrade during the automated award era, not even a measily silver for 60k. ‘Grease’, meanwhile, is beyond 3xP under the automated system which means someone has decided it sold between 1.5m and 1.8m for the 5xP during the period from release in July 1978 and February 1994. Again, that is fine, but setting it in stone with this certification is plain wrong. It is not anything other than a guess as far as anyone can tell and an official organisation such as the BPI should not be sullying its forty-year-old certification scheme with awards based on conjecture.

Of course they will state that it made sense to match the OCC status of their official top selling albums with their own certification system, especially now it is an automatic one. But was it really necessary to artificially create what amount to bogus awards just to make the OCC list seem more ‘real’?

It bothers me that I’m bothered, but to me it all smacks of artifice. A bit like someone going back in time and re-calculating who actually won past football league titles by re-calculating the final league table based on three points for a win instead of two as it always used to be. An amusing past-time for hobbyists but not something official authorities of the game should be contemplating, let alone sanctioning.

A red card to the BPI.

Topicel
Topicel
Manager
 
Posts: 2329
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007
Location: France

Postby brian05 » Fri Apr 22, 2016 3:31 pm

The best-selling single of 2014 - ‘Happy’ by @pharrell has gone 4x Platinum. That's 2.4 million!
brian05
Manager
 
Posts: 2985
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005
Location: N Ireland

Postby brian05 » Fri Apr 22, 2016 8:35 pm

Music Week: The sound of silence - Simon & Garfunkel's biggest seller in the digital age, with 209,022 sales (including from streams).
So why has it not yet been awarded a BPI Silver Disc?
brian05
Manager
 
Posts: 2985
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005
Location: N Ireland

Postby brian05 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 2:45 pm

As regards Simon and Garfunkel The Sound of Silence the BPI say,

Re the Simon & Garfunkel query below – Alan Jones is right, it has passed 200k but that’s across several versions listed on the Official Charts database. As the certifications are automatically generated off the ‘main’ version (usually the one that has the most sales attributed to it, and is still definitely active) that’s why it hasn’t yet been allocated a Silver award – it’s not far off on that one however, so I think we’ll not have to wait long for it to go Silver anyway.

So does that imply that sales of the same track from different albums are not combined, just the main version is used?
Surely a modern computer should be able to total all versions? Alan Jones seems to be able to do that task.
Perhaps they treat live versions differently.

Spelling makes a difference!
MICHAEL JACKSON - DON'T STOP 'TIL YOU GET ENOUGH
Silver Certification (Single) 22 April 2016
SONY MUSIC (EPIC)
Released 05 March 2006

MICHAEL JACKSON - DON'T STOP TILL YOU GET ENOUGH
Silver Certification (Single) 01 October 1979
CBS (EPIC)
Released 24 August 1979

I contacted BPI and got this reply.

Thanks for the email re Michael Jackson and the below. We’ll be working on the awards database in the second half of the year and are hoping to put in place a system that, where possible, adds Official Charts-era sales onto previous certifications so they can be updated.

Just like the album updates earlier this year! Expect DON'T STOP TILL YOU GET ENOUGH to be certified GOLD when combined.
brian05
Manager
 
Posts: 2985
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005
Location: N Ireland

Postby brian05 » Tue May 10, 2016 11:14 am

Another golden oldie certified this week. What were the original physical sales?
Foundations - Build me up buttercup (Silver)
200,000 digital sales in 11 years.
brian05
Manager
 
Posts: 2985
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005
Location: N Ireland

Postby brian05 » Fri May 13, 2016 4:59 pm

All those downloads over the Christmas season add up.
WIZZARD - I WISH IT COULD BE CHRISTMAS EVERYDAY
Gold Certification (Single) 13 May 2016
WARNER MUSIC (RHINO)
Released 4th April 2006
Certification History:
Silver Certification 22 July 2013

Anyone know what total sales are?

Strange that it should cross over the line at this time of the year!
brian05
Manager
 
Posts: 2985
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005
Location: N Ireland

Postby brian05 » Fri May 13, 2016 5:10 pm

BPI database also lists,
WIZZARD - I WISH IT COULD BE XMAS EVERY DAY
Silver Certification (Single) 01 December 1973
EMI (HARVEST)
Released 30 November 1973

Digital and physical sales have not been combined. Different spelling.
And Xmas instead of Christmas.
Last edited by brian05 on Sat May 14, 2016 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
brian05
Manager
 
Posts: 2985
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005
Location: N Ireland

Postby brian05 » Fri May 13, 2016 9:59 pm

So 250,000 + 400,000 = 650,000 at least.
brian05
Manager
 
Posts: 2985
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005
Location: N Ireland

Postby brian05 » Fri May 20, 2016 5:46 pm

BPI now says,

WIZZARD - I WISH IT COULD BE CHRISTMAS EVERYDAY
Gold Certification (Single) 13 May 2016
WARNER MUSIC (RHINO)
Released 04 April 2006
Certification History:
Silver Certification 01 December 1973

Does anyone proof read these entries?
They are confusing physical and digital awards.
brian05
Manager
 
Posts: 2985
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005
Location: N Ireland

Postby brian05 » Fri May 27, 2016 3:07 pm

bpi music ‏@bpi_music
It should be no surprise to announce that @thekillers' 'Mr Brightside' has reached 2x Platinum in the UK #bpiAwards.
brian05
Manager
 
Posts: 2985
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005
Location: N Ireland

Postby brian05 » Fri Jun 03, 2016 3:39 pm

Some more trickle sellers awarded Silver thanks to digital downloads.

ARETHA FRANKLIN - RESPECT
Silver Certification (Single) 03 June 2016
WARNER MUSIC (ATLANTIC)
Released 18 January 2009

ETTA JAMES - I JUST WANT TO MAKE LOVE TO YOU
Silver Certification (Single) 03 June 2016
UNIVERSAL MUSIC (MCA)
Released 14 November 2004

OASIS - LYLA
Silver Certification (Single) 03 June 2016
SONY MUSIC (BIG BROTHER)
Released 13 May 2005
Their 18th Silver single award.
brian05
Manager
 
Posts: 2985
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005
Location: N Ireland

Postby Nippian93 » Fri Jun 03, 2016 3:41 pm

Chart News ‏@chartnews 43m43 minutes ago
UK certifications (@bpi_music): @onedirection, History Platinum (600,000).
❤Whitney Houston
User avatar
Nippian93
Legend
 
Posts: 28529
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016

Postby brian05 » Fri Jun 10, 2016 3:20 pm

The amazing single ‘Use Somebody’ by @kingsofleon has just gone 2x platinum. Congrats! #bpiAwards.
We are thrilled to announce that 'Uptown Funk' by @MarkRonson and @BrunoMars has just gone 4x Platinum!! #bpiAwards.
brian05
Manager
 
Posts: 2985
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005
Location: N Ireland

Return to Chart Analysis