Belgian Chart Archives - Questions & Answers

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Postby marcoferrari » Tue Dec 31, 2013 9:39 am

So, the official chart for Belgium is Ultratop, but also BRT (for the period1970-1995)? I am asking because there are some differences in chart positions (highest peaks) of some singles... For example Flash by Queen reached top 10 in BRT, but not in Ultratop. Stuck On You by Lionel Richie or De Do Do Do by Police the same. Official dutch charts seems to be also two and again with differences (Dancing With Tears in My Eyes, for example)
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Postby CZB » Tue Dec 31, 2013 11:46 am

The Ultratop only began three months into 1995 - this week being the first official Ultratop 50:

http://www.ultratop.be/nl/weekchart.asp ... e=19950401

Data covering more than forty prior years (!) was added to the Ultratop site more recently - about a year ago, I think it was - but I have no idea where it came from. It's clear that it doesn't match up with the BRT Top 30 for the period from 1970 to early 1995, which I would still regard as the most "official" for those years. Certainly those were the charts broadcasted on the radio on Saturday mornings, which I was able to hear on medium wave in the UK, and which I regularly tuned into for at least a few of the last of those years.

For quite a while from April 1995 onwards there should be absolutely no uncertainty - as the BRT Top 30 ( later becoming the Radio 2 Top 30, and also changing its basis of compilation at least twice ) was just the top 30 of the Ultratop 50 ! This was the first week in which this occurred :

http://top30-2.radio2.be/#/chart-list/400

- note that the current week positions all agree, but the "last weeks" are quite different. It's clear from the abnormal number of new entries in the top thirty that the basis of compilation had changed in that week - but just look at the crazy last week positions on the Ultratop site in the first link ! Even the number ones in the previous two weeks are entirely different - in the BRT Top 30 "Tears Don't Lie" by Mark'Oh had replaced "The Reason Is You" by Nina, but the Ultratop site now says that "Love Me For A Reason" by Boyzone had replaced "A Girl Like You" by Edwyn Collins ! ! ! Nearly two decades on, I really don't think they should be rewriting history and claiming that such changes are now official . . . . .
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Postby HUR » Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:12 pm

CZB wrote:Data covering more than forty prior years (!) was added to the Ultratop site more recently - about a year ago, I think it was - but I have no idea where it came from. It's clear that it doesn't match up with the BRT Top 30 for the period from 1970 to early 1995, which I would still regard as the most "official" for those years. Certainly those were the charts broadcasted on the radio on Saturday mornings, which I was able to hear on medium wave in the UK, and which I regularly tuned into for at least a few of the last of those years.
I too noticed the peak positions are completely different from what I had for most acts.

I believe that the BRT and these old charts put on Ultratop (covering from 1970 to 1995) may have been heavily based on airplay, at least for some time periods. Perhaps a combination of both sales and airplay? Because otherwhise, some entries don't really make sense.
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Postby marcoferrari » Tue Dec 31, 2013 2:13 pm

HUR wrote:
CZB wrote:Data covering more than forty prior years (!) was added to the Ultratop site more recently - about a year ago, I think it was - but I have no idea where it came from. It's clear that it doesn't match up with the BRT Top 30 for the period from 1970 to early 1995, which I would still regard as the most "official" for those years. Certainly those were the charts broadcasted on the radio on Saturday mornings, which I was able to hear on medium wave in the UK, and which I regularly tuned into for at least a few of the last of those years.
I too noticed the peak positions are completely different from what I had for most acts.

I believe that the BRT and these old charts put on Ultratop (covering from 1970 to 1995) may have been heavily based on airplay, at least for some time periods. Perhaps a combination of both sales and airplay? Because otherwhise, some entries don't really make sense.
So, if you use any charts for various artists (period 1970-1995), you use the BRT Top 30 data?
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Postby CZB » Tue Dec 31, 2013 2:19 pm

marcoferrari wrote:
CZB wrote:Data covering more than forty prior years (!) was added to the Ultratop site more recently - about a year ago, I think it was - but I have no idea where it came from. It's clear that it doesn't match up with the BRT Top 30 for the period from 1970 to early 1995, which I would still regard as the most "official" for those years. Certainly those were the charts broadcasted on the radio on Saturday mornings, which I was able to hear on medium wave in the UK, and which I regularly tuned into for at least a few of the last of those years.
So, if you use any charts for various artists (period 1970-1995), you use the BRT Top 30 data?
Well, I definitely would !
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Postby marcoferrari » Tue Dec 31, 2013 2:49 pm

CZB wrote:
marcoferrari wrote:
CZB wrote:Data covering more than forty prior years (!) was added to the Ultratop site more recently - about a year ago, I think it was - but I have no idea where it came from. It's clear that it doesn't match up with the BRT Top 30 for the period from 1970 to early 1995, which I would still regard as the most "official" for those years. Certainly those were the charts broadcasted on the radio on Saturday mornings, which I was able to hear on medium wave in the UK, and which I regularly tuned into for at least a few of the last of those years.
So, if you use any charts for various artists (period 1970-1995), you use the BRT Top 30 data?
Well, I definitely would !
But what about the pre-70s era? BRT started only in may 1970, I think?
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Postby Herby » Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:45 pm

marcoferrari wrote:
CZB wrote:
marcoferrari wrote:
CZB wrote:Data covering more than forty prior years (!) was added to the Ultratop site more recently - about a year ago, I think it was - but I have no idea where it came from. It's clear that it doesn't match up with the BRT Top 30 for the period from 1970 to early 1995, which I would still regard as the most "official" for those years. Certainly those were the charts broadcasted on the radio on Saturday mornings, which I was able to hear on medium wave in the UK, and which I regularly tuned into for at least a few of the last of those years.
So, if you use any charts for various artists (period 1970-1995), you use the BRT Top 30 data?
Well, I definitely would !
But what about the pre-70s era? BRT started only in may 1970, I think?
This are the charts from the Book HET BELGISCH HITBOEK - by Robert Collin; it is a compilation of various charts from Vlaanderen, the dutch speaking part in Belgium. (Dec 54 - Mar 56: Songparade; Apr 56 - Dec 65: Juke-Box; Jan 66 - Apr 70: Humo; May 70 - Mar 81: Compilation Humo/BRT-Top 30; from Apr 81 Compilation-List Humo / Ultrapop VRT /Jopie
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Postby CZB » Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:48 pm

marcoferrari wrote:But what about the pre-70s era? BRT started only in may 1970, I think?
See the first and some of the second page of this thread for previous discussion of this era in Belgium - for which I have much less data for most countries. The books that were published in the mid-1990s [ for one of which, Herby added some further details just above while I was preparing this post ! ] tried to cover all bases as far as possible.
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Postby ICELANDIC » Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:03 am

This link does not exist anymore
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Postby CZB » Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:44 am

ICELANDIC wrote:This link does not exist anymore
If you mean the very first link to the BRT Top 30 archive at the beginning of this thread, seven years ago, it should be clear from some later posts that it moved more recently to:

http://top30-2.radio2.be/#/chart-list/400

- use the year dial and calendar line to move to any week from 1970 to the present.

I'm a little disappointed to see that, although she has now been at the helm for well over a year, they haven't yet added a picture of current presenter Caren Meynen to those of her six predecessors from the previous forty-three years down the right hand side of the page !
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Postby ICELANDIC » Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:50 am

CZB wrote:
ICELANDIC wrote:This link does not exist anymore
If you mean the very first link to the BRT Top 30 archive at the beginning of this thread, seven years ago, it should be clear from some later posts that it moved more recently to:

http://top30-2.radio2.be/#/chart-list/400

- use the year dial and calendar line to move to any week from 1970 to the present.

I'm a little disappointed to see that, although she has now been at the helm for well over a year, they haven't yet added a picture of current presenter Caren Meynen to those of her six predecessors from the previous forty-three years down the right hand side of the page !
thanks for the clarification....i must admit the presentation of the websirte is just amazing...i like :)
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Postby marcoferrari » Fri May 05, 2017 2:36 pm

Hello. Does anyone know where can be found the BRT TOP 30 archive? A direct archive on their website is not working. :(
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Postby CZB » Fri May 05, 2017 2:54 pm

marcoferrari wrote:Hello. Does anyone know where can be found the BRT TOP 30 archive? A direct archive on their website is not working. :(
There is a note on this page of the Radio 2 website explaining in Dutch that it is currently absent, hopefully only temporarily:



De Radio 2 Top 30 ... is niet verdwenen.

Sedert 23 maart hebben we bij Radio 2 een nieuwe website. Zoals bij elke verhuis van oud naar nieuw wordt niet alles meteen meegenomen. Het archief van de Radio 2 Top 30 zit nog in een verhuisdoos en komt later. Deze database, met alle lijsten van 2 mei 1970 tot nu, is gebouwd met software die nog niet goed draait met de nieuwe website. Maar er wordt aan gewerkt. Net zoals wij weten onze programmeurs dat dat archief voor jullie belangrijk is. Zij proberen zo vlug mogelijk hiervoor een oplossing te vinden. Wij houden jullie op de hoogte.

De meest recente lijsten van jouw favoriete hitparade vind je elke week op de nieuwe programmapagina van De Radio 2 Top 30 (https://radio2.be/programmas/de-radio-2-top-30).




Translated into English:

The Radio 2 Top 30 ... is not gone.

Since 23 March, Radio 2 has a new website. As with any relocation from old to new, not everything can be included straight away. The archives of the Radio 2 Top 30 are still on the way back, and will arrive later. The database, with all the charts from 2 May 1970 until now, uses software that is not yet compatible with the new website. But it is being worked on. Our programmers know as well as we do that the archive is important to you - they are trying to find a solution as quickly as possible. We will keep you posted.

The most recent lists of your favourite hit parade can be found every week on the new programme page for the Radio 2 Top 30 ( https://radio2.be/programmas/de-radio-2-top-30 ).
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Postby Arttrend » Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:04 am

Funny that after 9 years, still nobody has been able to answer this question for the Walloon region.
Anybody, the history for the period 1970-1995?
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Postby Robbie » Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:12 am

Arttrend wrote:Funny that after 9 years, still nobody has been able to answer this question for the Walloon region.
Anybody, the history for the period 1970-1995?
As far as I know charter did obtain the Walloon charts as he started to post them at his website. Unfortunately charter has seemingly disappeared from the internet. His website was taken offline last year after he didn't renew his registration and he hasn't posted at ukmix for a couple of years nor at BuzzJack for a year and a half, the latter of which was the same week when he also last updated his website. I don't know what happened to him but sadly I have a feeling that it's not good news.
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Postby Robbie » Tue May 01, 2018 8:23 pm

Update: it looks like the only older Walloon charts that charter was able to obtain are those from 1995 itself (or at least the only ones he posted at his website). If you search around the archive of his site at archive.org there are some Walloon charts from 1995

https://web.archive.org/web/*/worldcharts.co.uk

You'll need to click on the archives from 2010 though only a handful of his weekly updates have been archived.

As charter has seemingly vanished I don't know what Walloon charts from prior to 1995 he has. I do have an email address for him but can't currently find it. That said it's from well over a decade ago so is probably no longer valid.
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Postby Passing_Strang » Mon May 07, 2018 1:03 pm

Hi guys, can anybody tell me the sources for the charts in that "Het Belgisch Hitboek" book? Did it feature the info from the official charts that started in 1984? On Ultratop site I see positions below Top 30 for certain songs while the known Belgian singles charts - BRT, Humo, Joepie - were Top 30. Does that mean the "Hitboek" uses the official Sibesa/Sabam charts?

Will be very grateful for clarification!
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Postby josecharts » Thu May 17, 2018 12:59 pm

I remember an error that i dont know if You have already spoted it
In 1990 charts there is a song GET BUSY by a rapper but They list it as a SEAN PAUL song when not.
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Postby mjgm84 » Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:45 am

Arttrend wrote:Between 1986 and 1994 Belgian had a national chart uniting sales of Flanders and Wallonia. I may be in the possession of these charts soon, but I don't have them yet. This list was compiled under responsibility of Sabem/Sibesa. I think it started as a top 75, and later became a top 50, until separatism took over the music industry already in 1994.
So does anyone know where to find the full archives for the chart that covered the whole of Belgium from 1986 to 1994 ? and not just separately for Flanders and Wallonia. The above post says that it was compiled by Sabem/Sibesa. However, Music and Media magazine, which back issues of can be found online, published the Top 10 of this chart and show that it was compiled by IFPI Belgium. The Music and Media magazines have been archived at www.americanradiohistory.com. However, as previously mentioned they only included the top ten, and I am looking for the full listings.

Thanks.
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Postby trebor » Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:36 pm

^
The composite Belgium chart (Wallonie & Vlaanderen) does not exist in published form.
It was compiled specifically for Billboard/Music & Media/Fono by aggregating the two regional charts by hand!
The only source to possibly still have these lists is Ultratop themselves or staff that kept these records.
I have tried many times to get these documents but was always denied as officially they do not "exist".
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Postby mjgm84 » Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:55 pm

trebor wrote:^
The composite Belgium chart (Wallonie & Vlaanderen) does not exist in published form.
It was compiled specifically for Billboard/Music & Media/Fono by aggregating the two regional charts by hand!
The only source to possibly still have these lists is Ultratop themselves or staff that kept these records.
I have tried many times to get these documents but was always denied as officially they do not "exist".
Hey, thanks for the quick reply. So the composite Belgium chart was never published beyond the top ten in Music & Media ? That is kind of annoying because on Music & Media's Euro Hot 100 chart for each single that charted they used to put in the small print which individual countries the single charted in which gave its Euro Hot 100 peak. And a lot of the singles I have looked into have Belgium as contributing to their Euro Hot 100 peak but clearly the peak in Belgium was outside of the top 10 and so was not published.

So if you see the link below to the Euro Hot 100 which for example has Nirvana's Heart-Shaped Box at number 16, in the small print it has "B.IRE.UK" which means that the charts in Belgium, Ireland and UK contributed to its Euro peak: https://www.americanradiohistory.com/hd2/IDX-Business/Music/Archive-Music-Media-IDX/IDX/90s/93/MM-1993-09-18-OCR-Page-0014.pdf#search=%22nirvana%20heart%20shaped%20box%22

So it clearly charted in Belgium but outside of the top 10 which was published in Music & Media.
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Postby trebor » Sat Aug 04, 2018 3:42 pm

^
The deepest composite chart I have seen is a Top 20 Singles and Albums charts which were printed in Fono magazine (defunct sister publication of MusicWeek.
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Postby mjgm84 » Sat Aug 04, 2018 3:45 pm

trebor wrote:^
The deepest composite chart I have seen is a Top 20 Singles and Albums charts which were printed in Fono magazine (defunct sister publication of MusicWeek.
Hey, thanks again. Just one more question. I noticed on the Ultratop website that the Wallonia chart archive does not date back further than 1995 when the charts were revamped, but the Flanders chart seems to have been archived going back several decades. Do you know why Wallonia has not been archived further back ? and where the Wallonia chart archive pre-1995 could be found ? Many thanks.
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Postby trebor » Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:13 pm

^
The official Belgian charts started in 1995; hence, there is no archive for Wallony. (But there were Walloon charts before that year).
I do not know which chart (of the many that existed) was elected to officially represent the eras before that threshold date to complete the Flemish chart archive.
I am sure this must be explained here in this thread somewhere.
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Postby cavefan » Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:38 am

I've mentioned it already in another thread : there definitely existed a national sales chart for Belgium between 1984 and 1994 (Sibesa/SABAM & later IFPI/SABAM). It was a Top 50 from 1984-1989, then extended to a Top 75 in 1990 and eventually even a Top 100 at some point around 1994.
This chart was broadcast on Flemish and Walloon radio stations, displayed on posters in record stores and also published at least partially in some weeklies if I remember well. This chart was recognized as official and based on shipments rather than over the counter sales.

In 1995, this chart got replaced by the Ultratop with the major difference that it was now split in a Flemish and a French list. The national chart used between 1995 and 1999 by Billboard and Music & Media must indeed be some kind of unofficial ranking made up by themselves (perhaps indeed manually) or maybe based on aggregated industry figures provided by Ultratop to them? Who knows... in any case I've never heard about any national chart in Belgium from 1995 on anymore, and certainly this Billboard national chart was never broadcast or published anywhere in Belgium.

Now for old Walloon charts : before 1995, there were regional Walloon charts broadcast on RTBF Radio "Frequence Wallonie" and based on a survey at record shops across Wallonia. This chart called "Tip Top" still exists to this very day (despite the parallel Ultratop Wallonie now deemed official). I don't know when this chart was launched first but I do know it exists at least since the early 80's.
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