UK Politics - UKMIX referendum on Brexit (POLL)

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If the UK was to have a "People's vote" tomorrow on Brexit, how would you vote?

Remain in the European Union
29
78%
Leave the European Union
8
22%
 
Total votes : 37

Postby menime123 » Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:56 pm

The fact the EU now feel they need an army imo is their final play. Nothing is more desperate than an attempt at a show of strength. The EU is on its way out but I don’t think it will just be a case of them saying “nice try, let’s go back to how things were”. Too much has happened, too much has been invested.

I believe in the ideologies of the EU but it needs to be replaced by something better. I love and support the idea of European countries working together, but I think what has gotten lost along the way is the idea of individual sovereignty and I object to the EU slow trying to become something like the USA.

I know some won’t agree with this, but the fact the UK has a monarchy has a lot to do with the feelings behind Brexit (subliminally). We are a country proud of our vast heritage and have seen how the Queen has lead a Commonwealth of countries for decades - a community with shared values, history and beliefs, but with no legal obligations.

Of course it’s entirely different to the EU, but the key difference imo is that the commonwealth is based on respect, whereas the EU continues to move towards a form of dictatorship - and as soon as a member decides to leave for the first time, it begins discussions about having its own army? Suddenly viewing it as totalitarian body doesn’t feel alien.
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Postby heppolo » Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:09 pm

menime123 wrote:
heppolo wrote:
surely you are not assuming that the EU is about to experience the same just because the UK leaves (although Greece did experience the same thanks to the EU-imposed austerity programs)
EU economy should also witness some form of an aftershock, not as significant of course.
There’ll be a few billion aftershocks to the EU economy each week after Brexit :lol:
EU has set their sights on that trillion dollar Russian shadow money cheque. Might be a real WWIII trigger if you ask me.
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Postby menime123 » Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:25 pm

Quick, get that deal sorted May :o

No Deal Brexit could see Mars Bars run out 'in just two weeks'
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Postby jio » Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:38 pm

The army discussion is just the latest joke in Brussels but don't say that to the french because they might get offended. What does it mean anyway? Currently a European army would be mostly a french army with much increased funding coming mostly from Germany. I am not sure how well that would go down in Berlin. Moreover I am not sure how realistic is to expect from countries that chronically fail to meet their NATO expenditure targets to fund a parallel (and mostly unnecessary) structure.
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Postby MusicRecords » Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:40 pm

menime123 wrote:
I know some won’t agree with this, but the fact the UK has a monarchy has a lot to do with the feelings behind Brexit (subliminally). We are a country proud of our vast heritage and have seen how the Queen has lead a Commonwealth of countries for decades - a community with shared values, history and beliefs, but with no legal obligations.
Doesn’t the old lizard favor brexit?
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Postby Wayne » Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:43 pm

Her majesty is required to be apolitical.
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Postby menime123 » Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:10 pm

Wayne wrote:Her majesty is required to be apolitical.
And has never faultered in an entire lifetime.
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Postby MusicRecords » Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:11 pm

menime123 wrote:
Wayne wrote:Her majesty is required to be apolitical.
And has never faultered in an entire lifetime.
I’m pretty sure she’s ok with brexit though

Why can’t they be political though? More proof that this whole monarchy thing is just a tourism business...they don’t have a say in political stuff that’s important, but y’all keep feeding them with a gold spoon while the people struggle to have good wages :lol:
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Postby menime123 » Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:04 pm

MusicRecords wrote:
menime123 wrote:
Wayne wrote:Her majesty is required to be apolitical.
And has never faultered in an entire lifetime.
I’m pretty sure she’s ok with brexit though

Why can’t they be political though? More proof that this whole monarchy thing is just a tourism business...they don’t have a say in political stuff that’s important, but y’all keep feeding them with a gold spoon while the people struggle to have good wages :lol:
Because we are a democracy - the public votes for their local politicians and whichever party gets the most members voted in (past a certain number) is then invited by the Queen to form her government. The royal family does not rule the country and hasn’t done so for 360 years.

The monarchy is more than a tourism business, thank you. We tried being a republic for 11 years and we did not like it, and were very glad Charles II forgave us for chopping off his Dad’s head (Charles I) and accepted the throne (the forgiveness wasn’t really granted until he beheaded the guts that beheaded his dad, but as they were already dead at that point, posthumous decapitation was a bit pointless).

You only need to see footage of both Harry’s and William’s weddings to know how loved the royal family is.

Image

The Queen does receive daily briefings from the government and meets with the Prime Minister weekly to discuss what’s happening and to offer advice and support. Never forget this is her government and whilst she never would, legally she can step in and sack the lot of them by dissolving parliament. But she can never publicly support or endorse any political ideology or party for fear of swaying the people.

The cost of monarchy is minimal - she cost each person approximately £1.15 a year... which is about $1.50. Bargain.
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Postby Wayne » Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:02 pm

menime123 wrote:
Wayne wrote:Her majesty is required to be apolitical.
And has never faultered in an entire lifetime.
Despite what the agenda-pushing tabloid rags might have you think.

She once referred to Prince Philip as her "strength and stay all these years" but the truth is, that's what she's been to the UK - I appreciate it's difficult to understand if you're not British, but she (= the monarch) is the most consistent entity that we as a country have known and she has remained beloved and popular by not becoming political (she's above politics).

And, I might add, her reign has been longer than the established "European Union" (which is generally accepted to have begun in 1957 which the establishment of the EEC, though some point to the establishment of the Council of Europe in 1949 as the beginning).
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Postby Rihab » Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:43 am

menime123 wrote:I believe in the ideologies of the EU but it needs to be replaced by something better. I love and support the idea of European countries working together, but I think what has gotten lost along the way is the idea of individual sovereignty and I object to the EU slow trying to become something like the USA.
EU members are supposed to form an ‘ever closer union‘, so of course we’re gonna turn into some sort of United States of Europe sooner or later (probably later). Anyone who isn‘t okay with that really shouldn‘t have joined in the first place, but is free to follow Britain out. I‘m strictly against the EU going back to being a mere economic union. The political union is just as important.

I also kinda like the idea of an EU army. Would make it much easier to stand up to the US and tell them ‘no‘ the next time they try to drag us into another one of their unnecessary wars.
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Postby Rihab » Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:28 am

menime123 wrote:I know some won’t agree with this, but the fact the UK has a monarchy has a lot to do with the feelings behind Brexit (subliminally).
Something that the UK shares with Spain, Sweden, Denmark, the Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg, which happen to be some of the biggest supporters of the European project. Something that these countries don’t share though is Britain‘s imperial nostalgia and subliminal desire to create an empire 2.0. And that‘s what I suspect is actually to blame here. Y‘all can‘t use the Queen as an excuse every time your country acts up, the poor woman doesn‘t deserve that.
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Postby menime123 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:56 am

Rihab wrote:
menime123 wrote:I know some won’t agree with this, but the fact the UK has a monarchy has a lot to do with the feelings behind Brexit (subliminally).
Something that the UK shares with Spain, Sweden, Denmark, the Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg, which happen to be some of the biggest supporters of the European project. Something that these countries don’t share though is Britain‘s imperial nostalgia and subliminal desire to create an empire 2.0. And that‘s what I suspect is actually to blame here. Y‘all can‘t use the Queen as an excuse every time your country acts up, the poor woman doesn‘t deserve that.
Says the user from Germany :lol:

It’s so boring to hear that argument thrown around, when quite honestly there’s barely anyone around who remembers the days of when Britain had a real empire. Why would Britain want to create an empire in 2018? How on earth can anyone even attempt to do that in 2018? :roll:

The Commonwealth shows that a group of countries can work together without legal interference, paid membership and operate purely on the concept of respect. The EU May he democratic in its setup, but ultimately it’s a union that survives only by ruling over its members.

It has nothing to do with a desire for our own empire, but everything to do with how unappealing the EU has become to us... and the EU and it’s state members need to look at themselves and explain why we think that. The EU would like nothing more than to see us fail, but of course we won’t and will survive leaving.
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Postby menime123 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:05 am

Rihab wrote:
menime123 wrote:I believe in the ideologies of the EU but it needs to be replaced by something better. I love and support the idea of European countries working together, but I think what has gotten lost along the way is the idea of individual sovereignty and I object to the EU slow trying to become something like the USA.
EU members are supposed to form an ‘ever closer union‘, so of course we’re gonna turn into some sort of United States of Europe sooner or later (probably later). Anyone who isn‘t okay with that really shouldn‘t have joined in the first place, but is free to follow Britain out. I‘m strictly against the EU going back to being a mere economic union. The political union is just as important.

I also kinda like the idea of an EU army. Would make it much easier to stand up to the US and tell them ‘no‘ the next time they try to drag us into another one of their unnecessary wars.
The ideologies of the EEC and the EU are wildly different. The UK currently pays more into the EU than it gets back, and reclaiming such monies will ultimately help our national health service whilst controlling our political and legal future. The UK has clearly had reservations about some of the things the union became, and have never wanted to give up our sovereignty - evident by our desire not to be tied into a single currency.

I have no idea why you think an EU army is a good thing. Which war did the EU get dragged into? How would an EU army stand up to the US? Do you really think the fact an EU army exists will make politicians change their mind when deciding to go to war? Every time Europe goes to war the US gets dragged in so it works both ways.
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Postby jio » Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:43 am

Well if Germans want an ever closer union they should be start thinking about more basic things that a union has than an army: shared asylum, shared debt and wealth transfer from rich to poor areas. As long as that doesnt happen their idea of an ever closer union is more like ever lasting dominance which aint happening because it isnt sustainable (to borrow the IMF's words)
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Postby Guru » Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:55 pm

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Postby MusicRecords » Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:29 pm

^ :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby Guru » Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:51 am



Let’s hope it’s better than her dance moves :lol:
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Postby ludichris » Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:36 am

My only concern is.....Will Brexit have a negative effect on food prices?

Food is one of my highest expenses on a monthly basis and I would hate to be out of pocket after this debacle.
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Postby menime123 » Sun Nov 25, 2018 2:18 pm

ludichris wrote:My only concern is.....Will Brexit have a negative effect on food prices?

Food is one of my highest expenses on a monthly basis and I would hate to be out of pocket after this debacle.
Well it already has had an impact, hasn’t it? Prices have shot up over the last 2 years imo whilst the actual goods have reduced in size and quantity.

I think it’s inevitable prices will increase unfortunately. My main focus after Brexit is to entire local producers are able to maintain sales and costs at reasonable prices. I think a trick has been missed since Brexit was announced if I’m honest, as we really could have promoted the importance of relying on your local farmers, increasing the demand on them and getting their prices to drop.

Brexit is incredibly uncertain for the farming industry at the moment, but considering Brexit is all about taking control back, we should be looking inwards imo rather than focusing on deal that continue to allow us to look out.

I know it’s cheap, but supermarkets import things like Chicken from Taiwan. I mean, really?
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Postby Pompeii » Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:57 am

menime123 wrote:
Rihab wrote:
menime123 wrote:I know some won’t agree with this, but the fact the UK has a monarchy has a lot to do with the feelings behind Brexit (subliminally).
Something that the UK shares with Spain, Sweden, Denmark, the Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg, which happen to be some of the biggest supporters of the European project. Something that these countries don’t share though is Britain‘s imperial nostalgia and subliminal desire to create an empire 2.0. And that‘s what I suspect is actually to blame here. Y‘all can‘t use the Queen as an excuse every time your country acts up, the poor woman doesn‘t deserve that.
Says the user from Germany :lol:

It’s so boring to hear that argument thrown around, when quite honestly there’s barely anyone around who remembers the days of when Britain had a real empire. Why would Britain want to create an empire in 2018? How on earth can anyone even attempt to do that in 2018? :roll:

The Commonwealth shows that a group of countries can work together without legal interference, paid membership and operate purely on the concept of respect. The EU May he democratic in its setup, but ultimately it’s a union that survives only by ruling over its members.

It has nothing to do with a desire for our own empire, but everything to do with how unappealing the EU has become to us... and the EU and it’s state members need to look at themselves and explain why we think that. The EU would like nothing more than to see us fail, but of course we won’t and will survive leaving.
It's so much bigger than that. The UK must surely realise that their actions could well ultimately contribute to a serious destabilisation of Europe which can only please Putin, and drive us into the arms of Trump's America. Similary, back in the 1930s, Britain's political parties refused to help strengthen stability and democracy in Europe and instead contributed to their horrific demise.

I feel like the whole sorry story of much of the British political establishment's abandonment of our continent took place decades ago. But tragically, here we are again, albeit substantially different potential versions of it.
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Postby Kaloki » Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:19 am

^I wouldn't say Britain contributed to the demise of democracy in Europe in the 1930s. The Treaty of Versailles created more democratic countries than before the war.... And then it was internal political and economic factors that led democracy in many countries to fail.

Britain was one of the countries trying hardest to get Europe, and in particular Germany, back on its feet as it needed them for trade and wanted a strong Germany to counter balance France
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Postby menime123 » Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:50 pm

Pompeii wrote:It's so much bigger than that. The UK must surely realise that their actions could well ultimately contribute to a serious destabilisation of Europe which can only please Putin, and drive us into the arms of Trump's America. Similary, back in the 1930s, Britain's political parties refused to help strengthen stability and democracy in Europe and instead contributed to their horrific demise.

I feel like the whole sorry story of much of the British political establishment's abandonment of our continent took place decades ago. But tragically, here we are again, albeit substantially different potential versions of it.
The thing to remember about Brexit is that ultimately, this was not a politicians choice. If we put aside all talk of political lies and speculation etc during the referendum, the result lies with the British people and them alone.

All the politicians ultimately did was agree to offer the people a vote and the people have spoken - and whilst the result was clear, it was by no means indicative of a unified nation (we can blame that on politicians!)

So no, I don’t think Britain ‘must surely realise’ any of the points you speculate over. Why would the average person know or care about destabilising Europe? None of that was a factor in how we voted - we voted primarily on immigration, border control and the cost of membership.

Personally I believe strong links throughout all European nations is needed. But does it need to be in a shared union like the EU - we can still work together and support our shared ideals.
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Postby DnBLover » Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:05 pm

"All the politicians ultimately did was agree to offer the people a vote and the people have spoken - and whilst the result was clear, it was by no means indicative of a unified nation"

Do I really need to point out everything that's wrong about this?
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Postby Wayne » Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:19 pm

DnBLover wrote:"All the politicians ultimately did was agree to offer the people a vote and the people have spoken - and whilst the result was clear, it was by no means indicative of a unified nation"

Do I really need to point out everything that's wrong about this?
Yeah, I’d like to hear your points on this?
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