President Trump's Topic | Russia scandal worsens (28th Aug)

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How long will Trump last in office?

Less than 1 year
15
21%
Less than 4 years
20
29%
1 term
20
29%
2 terms
10
14%
More than 2 terms
5
7%
 
Total votes : 70

Postby LittleLinda » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:50 pm

Benjamin wrote:
Serby wrote:Wow at the Jerusalem. This is gonna get messy.
And this is exactly what his puppeteers want. One can only hope that they don't cause too much irreversible damage in the long run.
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Postby heppolo » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:52 pm

^Their endgame is mess and more mess
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Postby menime123 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:04 pm

Am I missing something? Just because Trump says it doesn’t make it true - surely the world will just ignore him?
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Postby LittleLinda » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:02 pm

menime123 wrote:Am I missing something? Just because Trump says it doesn’t make it true - surely the world will just ignore him?
Yes, you're missing something, because clearly Hamas are not ignoring him. If you can't see the imminent danger caused by his words (true or not), I don't know what to say.
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Postby spiritboy » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:34 am

menime123 wrote:Am I missing something? Just because Trump says it doesn’t make it true - surely the world will just ignore him?
Nobody will ignore him, Middle East is in a very fragile state already thanks to secterian struggles. Just when we were expecting a war between Iran and Saudi Arabia in Yemen, Trump the dump makes things worse.
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Postby Mainshow » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:29 am

I dislike Trump but officially recognising Jerusalem as the capital of Israel is overdue and totally legitimate, in my opinion.

It's funny how Erdogan and Turkey is going mad at this given the fact that they are responsible of dividing Cyprus and its capital Lefkosia. They are clearly the last one having any rights to level criticism on the US actions regarding this topic at the moment.

Let's face it; the "peace process" have been going on for decades now and it's not getting any better in terms of Jerusalem.
The city has always been the captial, though. You learn this at school, in the media, in Eurovision, it's written down in books.. if you ask people on the street what the capital of Israel is, no one will say Haifa, Jaffa or Tel Aviv.

Also, you will find the Knesset, the parliament, the highest court in Jerusalem and that fact itself basically gives the city the status of a capital. It's just the status quo. Also, other countries had recognised Jerusalem as the capital before, e.g. Russia, the Netherlands, Kenya, Bolivia, Haiti, Costa Rica, El Salvador.

Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel for decades; what really is provocative and questionable is the Israeli annexion of East Jerusalem but the US will locate its Embassy in the Western part of the city and tbh, there shouldn't be a problem with it. Even moderate Muslims from Palestine "just" call East Jerusalem as their own (or their country's capital) of a future independent Palestine country.

Just my 2 cents, I know what Trump does/did is highly provocative to some predominately Muslim countries but thb, it shouldn't be since it's indeed justa recognition of the current status quo (which has been the status quo for decades).

+ Those countries which are raging over other countries recognising Jerusalem as the official capital of an Israeli state, will probably never really recognise Israel's existence at all anyway; or a genuinely interested in living in peace and having good relations to Israel. Their reactions is basically just another evidence on how far away they are from reality and how fragile this region has been and will be. It will remain a fragile region no matter what.
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Postby heppolo » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:33 am

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Postby android » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:02 pm

Image

So dear Donald thinks "Bears Ears National Monument" is not worth saving.
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Postby LittleLinda » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:38 pm

Mainshow wrote:I dislike Trump but officially recognising Jerusalem as the capital of Israel is overdue and totally legitimate, in my opinion.
Hamas have a different opinion. And they think that killing thousands of Israelis is "totally legitimate" in response to Trump's plans.
You can consider Jerusalem the de facto capital of Israel all you want - but don't play with people's lives like that just to get the "peace process" moving again. That's just reckless.
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Postby jio » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:04 pm

Mainshow wrote:I dislike Trump but officially recognising Jerusalem as the capital of Israel is overdue and totally legitimate, in my opinion.

It's funny how Erdogan and Turkey is going mad at this given the fact that they are responsible of dividing Cyprus and its capital Lefkosia. They are clearly the last one having any rights to level criticism on the US actions regarding this topic at the moment.

Let's face it; the "peace process" have been going on for decades now and it's not getting any better in terms of Jerusalem.
The city has always been the captial, though. You learn this at school, in the media, in Eurovision, it's written down in books.. if you ask people on the street what the capital of Israel is, no one will say Haifa, Jaffa or Tel Aviv.

Also, you will find the Knesset, the parliament, the highest court in Jerusalem and that fact itself basically gives the city the status of a capital. It's just the status quo. Also, other countries had recognised Jerusalem as the capital before, e.g. Russia, the Netherlands, Kenya, Bolivia, Haiti, Costa Rica, El Salvador.

Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel for decades; what really is provocative and questionable is the Israeli annexion of East Jerusalem but the US will locate its Embassy in the Western part of the city and tbh, there shouldn't be a problem with it. Even moderate Muslims from Palestine "just" call East Jerusalem as their own (or their country's capital) of a future independent Palestine country.

Just my 2 cents, I know what Trump does/did is highly provocative to some predominately Muslim countries but thb, it shouldn't be since it's indeed justa recognition of the current status quo (which has been the status quo for decades).

+ Those countries which are raging over other countries recognising Jerusalem as the official capital of an Israeli state, will probably never really recognise Israel's existence at all anyway; or a genuinely interested in living in peace and having good relations to Israel. Their reactions is basically just another evidence on how far away they are from reality and how fragile this region has been and will be. It will remain a fragile region no matter what.
A big part of Jerusalem is occupied territory not belonging to Israel... so recognizing Jerusalem (without west or east in front) as the capital of Israel goes against international law irrespective of where you place your embassy.

Legalities aside, the USA is not just any country, it is the world's biggest power with the de-facto responsibility in stabilizing the system. So by going forward with a totally irresponsible move which will definitely cost lives it basically inflames the Middle East for no real reason at all. I don't know how anyone can support that.

Also the fact that the peace process is dead doesn't mean that the weak party has to be punished for it. The failure of the peace talks was not the responsibility of the Palestinian side alone or predominantly, in fact Israel was the actor that destroyed methodically and continuously every chance for peace by settling and dividing the territory that would be the Palestinian state in the future, thus making its creation impossible on the ground. Also I don't understand how by inflaming opinions you help the peace process start again.

Also I see points been made about recognition of the Israeli state, status quo etc. The majority of the world recognizes the State of Israel (and rightly so) but also doesn't recognize the status quo. The state of Israel is recognized only at its pre-1967 borders which do not include Jerusalem. If Israel was to insist on the recognition of the status quo, it would get far less recognitions than it currently has. In short Israel is recognized only on the condition of the existence of a Palestinian state as well. Without such a Palestinian state, Israel would loose all legitimacy and the reason why this is so is simple: because without a Palestinian state, all Palestinians should become Israeli citizens which would make Israel either a Jewish apartheid state or another arab state. So whoever is supporting this move is not really a friend of Israel either.

Finally a few irrelevant points: there are no countries recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. There are a few consulates in Jerusalem but none of them are consulates to Israel. Erdogan may be wrong about many things but he is right on this one. Also Turkey did invade and divided Cyprus in 1974 but Nicosia (and all other Cypriot towns) were actually divided from 1963 so yes it did divide the country but not its cities.

Also, even though I agree with LittleLinda's comment in general, I have to say that I am always surprised by people mourning Israeli lives exclusively when in fact its Palestinians who die in much greater numbers than Israelis in this conflict.
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Postby Rihab » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:09 pm

jio wrote:
Mainshow wrote:I dislike Trump but officially recognising Jerusalem as the capital of Israel is overdue and totally legitimate, in my opinion.
A big part of Jerusalem is occupied territory not belonging to Israel... so recognizing Jerusalem (without west or east in front) as the capital of Israel goes against international law irrespective of where you place your embassy.
This.

It‘s a bit as if (West) Germany had made Berlin its capital before 1990.
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Postby LittleLinda » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:11 pm

jio wrote:Also, even though I agree with LittleLinda's comment in general, I have to say that I am always surprised by people mourning Israeli lives exclusively when in fact its Palestinians who die in much greater numbers than Israelis in this conflict.
I'm not mourning Israeli lives exclusively, it just so happens that this particular act of Trump will make them the target of a new surge in violent outbursts that could have probably been avoided otherwise. But you're right, Israeli retaliation will follow, which will result in Palestinians getting killed, too. At the end of the day, innocent lives will be lost on both sides, just because the narcissistic attention whore wanted to stir the pot (courtesy of his wanna-be-middle-east-specialist son-in-law). It's infuriating to me.
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Postby heppolo » Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:10 pm

The Times Of Israel wrote:US’s Haley at UNSC: Those who resort to violence show they don’t want peace
1 Palestinian killed in Gaza, 250 injured in W. Bank in violent protests against Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as Israeli capital; Iron Dome intercepts rocket from Strip
Which completely fits the narrative of Don putting the lives of others at risk for his petty everyday needs.
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Postby Guru » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:17 am

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Postby SummerPeur » Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:04 am

US back at it again....
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Postby heppolo » Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:10 pm

^Quite surprised Cory Booker decided not to vote.
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Postby MusicRecords » Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:31 am

Looks like Jones (Dem) won Alabama as the second senator, beating rep Moore after his sexual scandal!

This is huge, Alabama is a very red state and now a dem is one of the senators!!! :D

SO now we have
49 Democrats and 51 Republicans in the U.S. Senate
Last edited by MusicRecords on Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby bm08 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:42 am

Thank goodness! I honestly thought Alabama was going to turn a blind eye to everything.
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Postby Guru » Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:25 am

He’s starting to give away power to Democrats.
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Postby heppolo » Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:30 am

DJT flopped with all his endorsements of Roy Moore
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Postby LittleLinda » Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:40 pm

I'm positively surprised!
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