Nippian93 wrote:^^ Complete nonsense as usual from you. (Not to you Stevyy)
Whitney did not have to rely on gimmicks to be able to move people, sell records and be relevant even now, when she is long gone.
We forgave drug abuse because it is none of your business, it is an illness, not a crime, do not talk about lack of vocals when you stan for Madonna, please. It is beyond ridiculous, pretty much like calling out Madonna who can't perform the way she could 30 years ago and mentiong the fact younger performers are a lot better than Madonna is now.
She indeed had it tough, she was a Black crossover artist, a Black woman in a racist society when crossover females were very rare, they still are, not as much as in the past, though. She was a domestic abuse victim, suffered multiple miscarriages, almost lost the ability to speak not to mention sing before she even decided to pursue her dream. She was also used by a lot of people as their way to the top, or at least to the middle, many of her family members and friends sold her, simply because they valued money more than a friend or a family member and Whitney was a good person who always wanted to help them as much as possible. She was their way to finally leave Newark, East Orange and live like at least as well as a typical white family in America could without trying too much.
While I do not agree with bashing Madonna as hard as it happened, she released the book and wanted to focus on controversy for a reason, the GP reacted, let's not pretend they were not articles like "Whitney is dying" or even "Whitney died", "Whitney is a lesbian" when she was still with us feeling very well.
Madonna is not the only artist who faced backlash, what you call interesting may be interesting to you but I couldn't care less about it, it is all subjective, I couldn't care less about the sex book, her 50 dancers and fancy outfits on stage, I am a fan of music, that's why I listen to music, instead of watching shows.
Whitney was a great charismatic performer, just a different type from Madonna, different strokes for different folks and set the standard for singers who came after hear, that's a fact. People love her, her music and Whitney as a human being, probably one of the reasons for the latest thing mentioned is that her peers, community could always rely on her and her support.
You coming for what was happening in Whitney's home is beyond pathetic. She was always very close to God, stayed married to an abusive husband for 15 years, dated like four men in 48 years, praised God since she could remember to 2/11. Sadly she had started using substances even before she became a star, and some of the reasons why it escalated was the drama at her house, another miscarriage, that bum showing his pathetic real self more and more often and also the double standards between her and her while peers, the immense success of The Bodyguard, the media putting their shoes into her life, and what she was particularly against her daughter's.
Madonna is pressed as usual, she had her bad moments pretty much with all of her peers who dislike her while they like Whitney and the feeling was/is mutual.
I understand why she was jealous, Whitney was slaying The Bodyguard both the movie and the album were immensely successful, dominating award shows, having a huge tour and rave reviews while Madonna...
Another thing why Whitney peers love her is that she always paid respect to those who came both before and after her unlike a lot of your faves.
Some of you will always side with Madonna and her bullshit because you are simply delusional and can see nothing but Madonna, Madonna and Madonna's point of view.
Look, I wasn’t slagging Whitney off at all - I’m a Whitney fan. I adore Celine Dion and Mariah Carey is alright at times (I love TEOM and who doesn’t love Christmas songs?)
But as a popstar Whitney gave very little to her fans. She only recorded 6 studio albums (and 1 Christmas album). Her music videos largely weren’t iconic, were fairly simplistic and very much of their time. I actually applaud her for singing live on her tragic last tour, where she literally couldn’t sing her biggest hits anymore.
Whitney was a legend but her USP was her vocal. But in my opinion (which of course I’m entitled to) her ability as a popstar was limited to adult contemporary ballads (primarily) and that involves a lot of standing around and just signing. Plus she was first and foremost a Christian singer - it’s evident in a lot of her music. But that is fine and look - the figures speak for themselves.
All I was doing was comparing how Whitney is quite marginalised in terms of her output whereas Madonna explored many different avenues that expanded beyond music. Certainly, the biggest criticism of Madonna is that she does very little to let the music be judged on its own merits - there is always a lot of noise around a Madonna release, and that has become the template for subsequent generations.
I don’t appreciate the race card being brought into the discussion though. The biggest acts of the 80s were Michael Jackson, Prince, Whitney and Madonna. The race card was a really low attempt at discrediting me and I didn’t bring her home life into it - I don’t judge her for her drug abuse (it is illegal btw) but the public overlooked it and by the time it was public knowledge she wasn’t really releasing much music anyway.
My point was that Madonna had an image that drug use would have gone with, whereas Whitney’s wasn’t. My point was that if Madonna had used drugs people would have held it against her whereas with Whitney we don’t. I find the contrast interesting. Look at Amy Winehouse - adores in death because she was trying to kick the habit, but vilified in life because her drug use and alcoholism impacted quite substantially on her ability to perform. Whitney certainly didn’t face that, despite it contributing towards her loss of ability in later years.
Would you agree that Whitney primarily had a very safe image? I think Madonna’s annoyance (and ill take the letter as legit until proven otherwise) is that Whitney played it safe with her career and was rewarded for conforming to what the public wanted her to be.
Did Whitney pave the way for others? I can sort of see it. Whitney’s success very obviously helped Celine and Mariah, but it’s very hard to think of anyone else since of such vocal ability who just lets their voice say it all - probably Adele, but Adele isn’t vocally in the same category.There’s Beyoncé, but if anyone has been inspired by Madonna’s popstar model it’s Beyoncé.
Anyway, I wasn’t slagging Whitney at all and hoped to provoke mature conversation about how the public image and public treatment of two of the biggest stars differ. Because let’s face it, Madonna is everything Whitney wasn’t and vice versa - but probably the biggest 2 women of the 80s. There was clearly a market for both and discussing how and why that happened was all I was trying to explore.
But of course mature conversation yet again gets thrown aside in favour of backing our favourites against any perceived slight. Such a shame.
Girls Aloud: only 4 years left of my decade long signature countdown to my dream 20th anniversary reunion tour...