Madonna slams Whitney Houston as mediocre

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Postby Bojan » Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:49 pm

JSparksFan wrote:If the letter is indeed real, Madonna was obviously very, very wrong. Whitney's talent isn't disputable.

I doubt it's real, though it is interesting how music feuds back in the day were so less veiled than they are now.
People didn't have internet. :lol:

I'm just glad my fave is staying away from this.
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Postby Shadowplay » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:01 pm

biscuits wrote:
Westen wrote:Anyway where is your thread about M opening first pediatric hospital in Malawi?
I didn't realise it was my job to create a thread for everything she does. Why didn't you create one?
please, biscuits, it's obvious you created it on purpose, just like you replied "it's fake only for madonna stans" just to blow on fire.
let's not act like we were kids.
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Postby biscuits » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:07 pm

I created it on purpose? And there was me thinking I accidentally opened this thread

It's a juicy topic pitting a feud between two of the biggest female artists ever. It's online forum gold. Not my fault it involves your fav as the bad guy. Maddy fans always go on about me hating her but their bullying of me is shocking
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Postby spiritboy » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:08 pm

On one hand i can believe this since she was a big bad bitch in the 90's. :lol: On the other hand, she never plays the victim card so it might be fake. Anyway, i don't see this being a big deal. It'll be forgotten in a day or two. Didn't Whitney say "If my kids turn out like Madonna, i'll kill/drown them?". If so, what Madonna wrote was very innocent compared to that. :lol:

And diva fans as always think Madonna lacks talent but staying on top the game for over 30 years is a talent itself. Stans are jealous because she is always relevant and even her flop album (which leaked entirely months ago) outsells almost every one of them. Céline Dion is the only other diva relevant out of the big five. Don't come for Madonna or her talent when your fave died of overdose or can't survive a backlash or making herself a laughing stock in every opportunity possible.
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Postby Nippian93 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:15 pm

spiritboy wrote:On one hand i can believe this since she was a big bad bitch in the 90's. :lol: On the other hand, she never plays the victim card so it might be fake. Anyway, i don't see this being a big deal. It'll be forgotten in a day or two. Didn't Whitney say "If my kids turn out like Madonna, i'll kill/drown them?". If so, what Madonna wrote was very innocent compared to that. :lol:

And diva fans as always think Madonna lacks talent but staying on top the game for over 30 years is a talent itself. Stans are jealous because she is always relevant and even her flop album (which leaked entirely months ago) outsells almost every one of them. Céline Dion is the only other diva relevant out of the big five. Don't come for Madonna or her talent when your fave died of overdose or can't survive a backlash or making herself a laughing stock in every opportunity possible.
Whitney did not overdose on anything and she did not say what you said here, where are the receipts ?

Whitney's relevancy is pretty much ok considering everything, songs are still on the radio, talent shows, people still try to be like her, her album released 10 years ago is among the 40 biggest albums in the UK in 2017, new (bad) movie out, the second one in the making, not bad at all. They should have kept the movie, though.

I agree people are trying to make it bigger than it really was, though. On the other hand if a few posters (I do not mean you ) said it was Madonna's private opinion she was entitled to, I hope they are not going to try to silence members who have a different opinion from theirs.
Last edited by Nippian93 on Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby menime123 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:21 pm

Nippian93 wrote:^^ Complete nonsense as usual from you. (Not to you Stevyy)

Whitney did not have to rely on gimmicks to be able to move people, sell records and be relevant even now, when she is long gone.

We forgave drug abuse because it is none of your business, it is an illness, not a crime, do not talk about lack of vocals when you stan for Madonna, please. It is beyond ridiculous, pretty much like calling out Madonna who can't perform the way she could 30 years ago and mentiong the fact younger performers are a lot better than Madonna is now.

She indeed had it tough, she was a Black crossover artist, a Black woman in a racist society when crossover females were very rare, they still are, not as much as in the past, though. She was a domestic abuse victim, suffered multiple miscarriages, almost lost the ability to speak not to mention sing before she even decided to pursue her dream. She was also used by a lot of people as their way to the top, or at least to the middle, many of her family members and friends sold her, simply because they valued money more than a friend or a family member and Whitney was a good person who always wanted to help them as much as possible. She was their way to finally leave Newark, East Orange and live like at least as well as a typical white family in America could without trying too much.

While I do not agree with bashing Madonna as hard as it happened, she released the book and wanted to focus on controversy for a reason, the GP reacted, let's not pretend they were not articles like "Whitney is dying" or even "Whitney died", "Whitney is a lesbian" when she was still with us feeling very well.

Madonna is not the only artist who faced backlash, what you call interesting may be interesting to you but I couldn't care less about it, it is all subjective, I couldn't care less about the sex book, her 50 dancers and fancy outfits on stage, I am a fan of music, that's why I listen to music, instead of watching shows.

Whitney was a great charismatic performer, just a different type from Madonna, different strokes for different folks and set the standard for singers who came after hear, that's a fact. People love her, her music and Whitney as a human being, probably one of the reasons for the latest thing mentioned is that her peers, community could always rely on her and her support.

You coming for what was happening in Whitney's home is beyond pathetic. She was always very close to God, stayed married to an abusive husband for 15 years, dated like four men in 48 years, praised God since she could remember to 2/11. Sadly she had started using substances even before she became a star, and some of the reasons why it escalated was the drama at her house, another miscarriage, that bum showing his pathetic real self more and more often and also the double standards between her and her while peers, the immense success of The Bodyguard, the media putting their shoes into her life, and what she was particularly against her daughter's.

Madonna is pressed as usual, she had her bad moments pretty much with all of her peers who dislike her while they like Whitney and the feeling was/is mutual.

I understand why she was jealous, Whitney was slaying The Bodyguard both the movie and the album were immensely successful, dominating award shows, having a huge tour and rave reviews while Madonna...

Another thing why Whitney peers love her is that she always paid respect to those who came both before and after her unlike a lot of your faves.

Some of you will always side with Madonna and her bullshit because you are simply delusional and can see nothing but Madonna, Madonna and Madonna's point of view.
Look, I wasn’t slagging Whitney off at all - I’m a Whitney fan. I adore Celine Dion and Mariah Carey is alright at times (I love TEOM and who doesn’t love Christmas songs?)

But as a popstar Whitney gave very little to her fans. She only recorded 6 studio albums (and 1 Christmas album). Her music videos largely weren’t iconic, were fairly simplistic and very much of their time. I actually applaud her for singing live on her tragic last tour, where she literally couldn’t sing her biggest hits anymore.

Whitney was a legend but her USP was her vocal. But in my opinion (which of course I’m entitled to) her ability as a popstar was limited to adult contemporary ballads (primarily) and that involves a lot of standing around and just signing. Plus she was first and foremost a Christian singer - it’s evident in a lot of her music. But that is fine and look - the figures speak for themselves.

All I was doing was comparing how Whitney is quite marginalised in terms of her output whereas Madonna explored many different avenues that expanded beyond music. Certainly, the biggest criticism of Madonna is that she does very little to let the music be judged on its own merits - there is always a lot of noise around a Madonna release, and that has become the template for subsequent generations.

I don’t appreciate the race card being brought into the discussion though. The biggest acts of the 80s were Michael Jackson, Prince, Whitney and Madonna. The race card was a really low attempt at discrediting me and I didn’t bring her home life into it - I don’t judge her for her drug abuse (it is illegal btw) but the public overlooked it and by the time it was public knowledge she wasn’t really releasing much music anyway.

My point was that Madonna had an image that drug use would have gone with, whereas Whitney’s wasn’t. My point was that if Madonna had used drugs people would have held it against her whereas with Whitney we don’t. I find the contrast interesting. Look at Amy Winehouse - adores in death because she was trying to kick the habit, but vilified in life because her drug use and alcoholism impacted quite substantially on her ability to perform. Whitney certainly didn’t face that, despite it contributing towards her loss of ability in later years.

Would you agree that Whitney primarily had a very safe image? I think Madonna’s annoyance (and ill take the letter as legit until proven otherwise) is that Whitney played it safe with her career and was rewarded for conforming to what the public wanted her to be.

Did Whitney pave the way for others? I can sort of see it. Whitney’s success very obviously helped Celine and Mariah, but it’s very hard to think of anyone else since of such vocal ability who just lets their voice say it all - probably Adele, but Adele isn’t vocally in the same category.There’s Beyoncé, but if anyone has been inspired by Madonna’s popstar model it’s Beyoncé.

Anyway, I wasn’t slagging Whitney at all and hoped to provoke mature conversation about how the public image and public treatment of two of the biggest stars differ. Because let’s face it, Madonna is everything Whitney wasn’t and vice versa - but probably the biggest 2 women of the 80s. There was clearly a market for both and discussing how and why that happened was all I was trying to explore.

But of course mature conversation yet again gets thrown aside in favour of backing our favourites against any perceived slight. Such a shame.
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Postby spiritboy » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:22 pm

Well, if the letter turns out to be real, nobody can accuse Madonna of anything since it was a private letter and it was written almost 25 years ago. Anyway, we all know Whitney is anything but mediocre (even M said so) so there is no need to come for Madonna. I, personally don't think it's real cause she never plays (and never played) the victim card even when she was demonized by Vatican and the media. It was probably the worst backlash a female singer has suffered.
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Postby Mikerocha » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:30 pm

biscuits wrote:
Mikerocha wrote:The creator of this thread has a history of hating Madonna.
And you have a history of hating me so actually IDC. Also, my feelings for Maddy (which are neutral btw) have nothing to do with anything - I did not write that letter
Neither did she :lol:

And I don't have a history of hating you. I do call you out when you, as moderator, seem (in my opinion) more inclined to start stan wars, in comparison to other moderators.

Out of topic but recently there were some topics you opened and I was impressed and even said how I agreed 100% with you and we have a history of not seeing eye to eye (I just wish I remember which topics those were :lol:) I just remember being happy that we finally had thoughts in common.

And while I don't believe the letter is real, Madonna DID have history of shading the bodyguard :lol: but never in a million years she would write on a letter, to a lover, poor me!

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Postby biscuits » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:35 pm

Okay, sorry for the misunderstanding. But I'm not creating stan wars, that's up to y'all. If y'all can't discuss something without resorting to stan wars, that isn't my fault.

The piece of paper is on auction for $1000 which is newsworthy on its own
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Postby menime123 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:36 pm

biscuits wrote:Okay, sorry for the misunderstanding. But I'm not creating stan wars, that's up to y'all. If y'all can't discuss something without resorting to stan wars, that isn't my fault.

The piece of paper is on auction for $1000 which is newsworthy on its own
Well even the thread title is misleading - Madonna doesn’t slam anyone, and if there was any slamming involved it isn’t slams - it should be slammed because this is from 20 odd years ago :lol:
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Postby Bojan » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:37 pm

spiritboy wrote:On the other hand, she never plays the victim card
I'm not sure about that. What's more I think it's implemented in almost everything she does.
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Postby Nippian93 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:37 pm

menime123 wrote:
Nippian93 wrote:^^ Complete nonsense as usual from you. (Not to you Stevyy)

Whitney did not have to rely on gimmicks to be able to move people, sell records and be relevant even now, when she is long gone.

We forgave drug abuse because it is none of your business, it is an illness, not a crime, do not talk about lack of vocals when you stan for Madonna, please. It is beyond ridiculous, pretty much like calling out Madonna who can't perform the way she could 30 years ago and mentiong the fact younger performers are a lot better than Madonna is now.

She indeed had it tough, she was a Black crossover artist, a Black woman in a racist society when crossover females were very rare, they still are, not as much as in the past, though. She was a domestic abuse victim, suffered multiple miscarriages, almost lost the ability to speak not to mention sing before she even decided to pursue her dream. She was also used by a lot of people as their way to the top, or at least to the middle, many of her family members and friends sold her, simply because they valued money more than a friend or a family member and Whitney was a good person who always wanted to help them as much as possible. She was their way to finally leave Newark, East Orange and live like at least as well as a typical white family in America could without trying too much.

While I do not agree with bashing Madonna as hard as it happened, she released the book and wanted to focus on controversy for a reason, the GP reacted, let's not pretend they were not articles like "Whitney is dying" or even "Whitney died", "Whitney is a lesbian" when she was still with us feeling very well.

Madonna is not the only artist who faced backlash, what you call interesting may be interesting to you but I couldn't care less about it, it is all subjective, I couldn't care less about the sex book, her 50 dancers and fancy outfits on stage, I am a fan of music, that's why I listen to music, instead of watching shows.

Whitney was a great charismatic performer, just a different type from Madonna, different strokes for different folks and set the standard for singers who came after hear, that's a fact. People love her, her music and Whitney as a human being, probably one of the reasons for the latest thing mentioned is that her peers, community could always rely on her and her support.

You coming for what was happening in Whitney's home is beyond pathetic. She was always very close to God, stayed married to an abusive husband for 15 years, dated like four men in 48 years, praised God since she could remember to 2/11. Sadly she had started using substances even before she became a star, and some of the reasons why it escalated was the drama at her house, another miscarriage, that bum showing his pathetic real self more and more often and also the double standards between her and her while peers, the immense success of The Bodyguard, the media putting their shoes into her life, and what she was particularly against her daughter's.

Madonna is pressed as usual, she had her bad moments pretty much with all of her peers who dislike her while they like Whitney and the feeling was/is mutual.

I understand why she was jealous, Whitney was slaying The Bodyguard both the movie and the album were immensely successful, dominating award shows, having a huge tour and rave reviews while Madonna...

Another thing why Whitney peers love her is that she always paid respect to those who came both before and after her unlike a lot of your faves.

Some of you will always side with Madonna and her bullshit because you are simply delusional and can see nothing but Madonna, Madonna and Madonna's point of view.
Look, I wasn’t slagging Whitney off at all - I’m a Whitney fan. I adore Celine Dion and Mariah Carey is alright at times (I love TEOM and who doesn’t love Christmas songs?)

But as a popstar Whitney gave very little to her fans. She only recorded 6 studio albums (and 1 Christmas album). Her music videos largely weren’t iconic, were fairly simplistic and very much of their time. I actually applaud her for singing live on her tragic last tour, where she literally couldn’t sing her biggest hits anymore.

Whitney was a legend but her USP was her vocal. But in my opinion (which of course I’m entitled to) her ability as a popstar was limited to adult contemporary ballads (primarily) and that involves a lot of standing around and just signing. Plus she was first and foremost a Christian singer - it’s evident in a lot of her music. But that is fine and look - the figures speak for themselves.

All I was doing was comparing how Whitney is quite marginalised in terms of her output whereas Madonna explored many different avenues that expanded beyond music. Certainly, the biggest criticism of Madonna is that she does very little to let the music be judged on its own merits - there is always a lot of noise around a Madonna release, and that has become the template for subsequent generations.

I don’t appreciate the race card being brought into the discussion though. The biggest acts of the 80s were Michael Jackson, Prince, Whitney and Madonna. The race card was a really low attempt at discrediting me and I didn’t bring her home life into it - I don’t judge her for her drug abuse (it is illegal btw) but the public overlooked it and by the time it was public knowledge she wasn’t really releasing much music anyway.

My point was that Madonna had an image that drug use would have gone with, whereas Whitney’s wasn’t. My point was that if Madonna had used drugs people would have held it against her whereas with Whitney we don’t. I find the contrast interesting. Look at Amy Winehouse - adores in death because she was trying to kick the habit, but vilified in life because her drug use and alcoholism impacted quite substantially on her ability to perform. Whitney certainly didn’t face that, despite it contributing towards her loss of ability in later years.

Would you agree that Whitney primarily had a very safe image? I think Madonna’s annoyance (and ill take the letter as legit until proven otherwise) is that Whitney played it safe with her career and was rewarded for conforming to what the public wanted her to be.

Did Whitney pave the way for others? I can sort of see it. Whitney’s success very obviously helped Celine and Mariah, but it’s very hard to think of anyone else since of such vocal ability who just lets their voice say it all - probably Adele, but Adele isn’t vocally in the same category.There’s Beyoncé, but if anyone has been inspired by Madonna’s popstar model it’s Beyoncé.

Anyway, I wasn’t slagging Whitney at all and hoped to provoke mature conversation about how the public image and public treatment of two of the biggest stars differ. Because let’s face it, Madonna is everything Whitney wasn’t and vice versa - but probably the biggest 2 women of the 80s. There was clearly a market for both and discussing how and why that happened was all I was trying to explore.

But of course mature conversation yet again gets thrown aside in favour of backing our favourites against any perceived slight. Such a shame.
You are now derailing with speculations. People were coming for Whitney's addiction for YEARS, that's a fact. Each time something bad or at least not as good as was expected happened it was "crack", "cocaine", "marijuana", "Whitney has cancelled the concerts, drugs", "Whitney is dying, drugs", "Whitney has died, drugs", let's not pretend otherwise. Still even today people think she actually overdosed on drugs which is not true. The drugs have been discussed ad nauseam for years.

She was first and foremost a Christian singer, that was her background, her mother is an iconic gospel singer and her legacy begun in New Hope Baptist Church in Newark, NJ, that's a fact, she sang a few genres, that's another fact, you mainly have pop, RnB and gospel but also things like urban, soul, dance etc.

We have never really complained about the amount of releases, we have albums, singles, movies, performances, interviews.

I am not exactly sure what a "safe image" is, she did not release any sex books, that's what I know for a fact but some people disliked her as a crossover artist and "YT, Whitey Houston" etc, you can't please everybody, no matter what you do and how well you do it.

She certainly paved the way for others and aforementioned Beyonce said "I, like every singer, always wanted to be just like her...She is our queen and she opened doors and provided a blueprint for all of us.", all of those singers who came a few years after her like Mariah, Toni, Celine, Brandy, Monica, Deborah Cox love her and have been influenced by her. She was exactly what somebody who wants to be a crossover artist would like to become.

She set the standard for future generation of singers and pretty much all aspiring singers cite her as an influence and I am not only talking about singers live great vocalist but also people like Britney, so her impact definitely exceedes setting vocal standards for future generations.

Madonna used "mediocre", that's the word she used, you can keep on trying to derail and deflect, though.
Last edited by Nippian93 on Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby spiritboy » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:42 pm

Bojan wrote:
spiritboy wrote:On the other hand, she never plays the victim card
I'm not sure about that. What's more I think it's implemented in almost everything she does.
Receipts? She never apologized for the controversies she has caused.
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Postby Bojan » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:44 pm

This is one of the most influential albums ever made. That's hardly a mediocre.

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Postby Mikerocha » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:46 pm

spiritboy wrote:
Bojan wrote:
spiritboy wrote:On the other hand, she never plays the victim card
I'm not sure about that. What's more I think it's implemented in almost everything she does.
Receipts? She never apologized for the controversies she has caused.
THIS!

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Postby menime123 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:54 pm

[quote=Nippian93] Blah

[/quote]

I mean serious, what the heck has her mother got to do with it all? Poor Madonna, hers died when she was 5. Poor Madonna, raped at knife point. Poor Madonna, abusive husband etc etc etc. Discuss the career, not the personal stuff - l’ve only referenced Whitney’s drug use because it actually contributed to lack of range in later years so it’s very much career related.

Honestly, again with the race issue. Calling people a ‘crossover artist’ builds the wall of segregation - it really doesn’t demolish it. It’s 2017 for gods sake.

If you can’t engage without being on the defence, by all means don’t. It’s all love and respect on my part - I’m not interested in engaging when the defence is up and I don’t really know why it is - no one slagged off Whitney. Whitney doesn’t need you to defend her and I certainly don’t need to read anymore of it.

But I refuse to believe you were happy with the gaps between studio albums :lol:
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Postby Bojan » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:57 pm

spiritboy wrote:
Bojan wrote:
spiritboy wrote:On the other hand, she never plays the victim card
I'm not sure about that. What's more I think it's implemented in almost everything she does.
Receipts? She never apologized for the controversies she has caused.
That's not the only way to do it, if it is at all. She's constantly singing and talking about how everyone's trying to oppress her, make her be different, from her father to Catholic church to puritan America and comparing herself with Evita and Frida Kahlo and so on and so on... She's been constantly reminding us that she's breaking the rules and that she would be selling more if she wasn't (in realty, she would hardly sell anything if she wasn't), and that we should respect her victim - even if she avoids usage of that word.

Her whole career is "Me against society", which is basically playing the victim card. Some much more abstract and risky artists were never putting that on the pedestal (like David Bowie for instance).
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Postby Nippian93 » Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:07 am

menime123 wrote:[quote=Nippian93] Blah

I mean serious, what the heck has her mother got to do with it all? Poor Madonna, hers died when she was 5. Poor Madonna, raped at knife point. Poor Madonna, abusive husband etc etc etc. Discuss the career, not the personal stuff - l’ve only referenced Whitney’s drug use because it actually contributed to lack of range in later years so it’s very much career related.

Honestly, again with the race issue. Calling people a ‘crossover artist’ builds the wall of segregation - it really doesn’t demolish it. It’s 2017 for gods sake.

If you can’t engage without being on the defence, by all means don’t. It’s all love and respect on my part - I’m not interested in engaging when the defence is up and I don’t really know why it is - no one slagged off Whitney. Whitney doesn’t need you to defend her and I certainly don’t need to read anymore of it.

But I refuse to believe you were happy with the gaps between studio albums :lol:[/quote]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Her mother was the biggest influence on her career and on who Whitney became as a human being, very much related to the discussion.

I agree Madonna has had some very sad moments in her life, I was not trying to deny it but let's not pretend Whitney's life was perfect, it was not. She was also a domestic abuse victim, that bum had a huge impact on her substance abuse, that's a fact. While she did not turn him on drugs (neither did he), his constant jealousy, adulteries, abusive behaviour contributed to her addiction, her life behind the scenes, behind the closed door of her Mendham or Alpharetta mansion were far from perfect and far from what I would want to have myself.

The term "crossover artist" has been used for years when discussing people like Whitney Houston, that's a fact, some people used it against her, some losers even bugged her at the 1989 Soul Train Music Awards, such a sad day, not only because of the incident but she also met her future husband on that day . It was very hard for a Black woman to become one, it was very hard for one to be played on MTV, that's when people started to demand them to play Whitney, Janet, Tina and others, just like it was very hard to have a crossover appeal worldwide and it still is. We are talking about the eighties not about 2017, so I will keep using terms popular around the time we are talking about.

You have been here long enough to learn how to quote properly, it is not that hard.
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Postby menime123 » Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:08 am

Bojan wrote:
spiritboy wrote:
Bojan wrote:
spiritboy wrote:On the other hand, she never plays the victim card
I'm not sure about that. What's more I think it's implemented in almost everything she does.
Receipts? She never apologized for the controversies she has caused.
That's not the only way to do it, if it is at all. She's constantly singing and talking about how everyone's trying to oppress her, make her be different, from her father to Catholic church to puritan America and comparing herself with Evita and Frida Kahlo and so on and so on... She's been constantly reminding us that she's breaking the rules and that she would be selling more if she wasn't (in realty, she would hardly sell anything if she wasn't), and that we should respect her victim - even if she avoids usage of that word.

Her whole career is "Me against the society", which is basically playing the victim card. Some much more abstract and risky artists were never putting that on the pedestal (like David Bowie for instance).
Madonna has always said that if she had a career aim, it was to prove woman can be smart and sexy. If you view everything she’s done under that light, a lot of it makes more sense.

People are still talking about her sex book 25 years later, but the truth is it was a hit - it sold out, was never reprinted and made her a lot of money in the process.

Look at Justify My Love - she deliberately got it banned by MTV (the first to be banned) so sold it on VHS and made a packet.
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Postby spiritboy » Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:10 am

What a great and lovely post from Sharon Stone :D
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Postby spiritboy » Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:20 am

Nippian is venting on Atrl. His posts are :lol:

Well, at least he showed his true "stan" colors. Getting angry about a letter without knowing it's fake or not. Good job :wink:
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Postby Nippian93 » Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:25 am

spiritboy wrote:Nippian is venting on Atrl. His posts are :lol:

Well, at least he showed his true "stan" colors. Getting angry about a letter without knowing it's fake or not. Good job :wink:
I am not a member on ATRL, never have been. Each time I want to register they do not want to allow me, maybe it's for the better, not sure whether for me or for them.

I am not angry at the letter at all. I had known about this letter for hours before it was posted in the Madonna thread on UKMix, I was probably among the first people who saw it. I did not bring it to UKMix because I knew how it would end.

I basically hope this discussion will end soon.
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Postby Bojan » Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:36 am

menime123 wrote:
Bojan wrote:
spiritboy wrote:
Bojan wrote:
I'm not sure about that. What's more I think it's implemented in almost everything she does.
Receipts? She never apologized for the controversies she has caused.
That's not the only way to do it, if it is at all. She's constantly singing and talking about how everyone's trying to oppress her, make her be different, from her father to Catholic church to puritan America and comparing herself with Evita and Frida Kahlo and so on and so on... She's been constantly reminding us that she's breaking the rules and that she would be selling more if she wasn't (in realty, she would hardly sell anything if she wasn't), and that we should respect her victim - even if she avoids usage of that word.

Her whole career is "Me against the society", which is basically playing the victim card. Some much more abstract and risky artists were never putting that on the pedestal (like David Bowie for instance).
Madonna has always said that if she had a career aim, it was to prove woman can be smart and sexy. If you view everything she’s done under that light, a lot of it makes more sense.

People are still talking about her sex book 25 years later, but the truth is it was a hit - it sold out, was never reprinted and made her a lot of money in the process.

Look at Justify My Love - she deliberately got it banned by MTV (the first to be banned) so sold it on VHS and made a packet.
Just to make it clear, I'm not against it, I don't care what she said in a private letter, I'm more worried about why it didn't remain private, and I'm not attacking Madonna nor I'm questioning her success. I love 'Justify My Love' and 'Erotica' is one of my favourite albums of hers. I'm just saying that she was playing the victim card from time to time, unlike some other artists that also weren't following rules but didn't care to talk out loud about it, to make it sure that everybody knows and appreciate their brave and risky moves. Some of them never even mentioned it. But I'm not attacking Madonna, that was her legitimate right to do and use in her advantage. I just pointed it out.
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Postby Mikerocha » Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:37 am

The thread title should be "25 years ago Madonna slammed Whitney." If the letter proved real.
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Postby TIfan » Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:56 am

I can care less about the letter. Maybe she was hurting during that time (if it's real). I just don't like some Whitney shade being thrown around.

Plus, it was a personal letter.
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