USA - Charlottesville: 3 dead, 34 injured (far right rally)

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Postby Goldmoney » Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:39 pm

KEY9481 wrote:
xBFG wrote:Sorry but just cannot wait for KKK to come back

The problem is they think because of changing times they can do whatever they want without any consequences because they are black
BAN IT.
I could say much worse right now but Imma just let karma do the talking.
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Postby samra » Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:43 pm

MusicLover88 wrote:
KEY9481 wrote:
xBFG wrote:she can do whatever she wants...only because she is black and woman ...
my GOD. omg
I mean, imagine thinking this. Good lord in heaven.
This is kinda why I hope xbfg ain't banned because obviously they aren't being exposed to rational thought in real life so maybe ukmix can open their eyes...

I just dont understand how people can harbour these kinds of views.
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Postby heppolo » Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:54 pm

xBFG wrote:I mean people because of having more rights they can use it against others like here in the UK. Having different colour of skin you are almost untouchable because you are white and a racist.
I see those same views spreading like wildfire through the alt-right media (vlogers, youtube commentators, etc.), memes ("the left can't meme"), reddit.
In fact, this might be the new norm so people have to be ready, WH has Sessions, Miller, Bannon, Gorka inside,
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Postby LongingHeart » Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:27 pm

xBFG wrote:Sorry but just cannot wait for KKK to come back

The problem is they think because of changing times they can do whatever they want without any consequences because they are black
You need to get your ass whooped. Like really bad
Shame on me for changing.... no no no... shame on you for stayin' the same.
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Postby KEY9481 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:39 pm

samra wrote:
The way someone else is dressed shouldn't really impact your work if you're minding your own business.

Commenting on the way a coworker looks or is dressed is inappropriate. If you had a problem, you report it to the manager and let them resolve the issue. She had nothing to apologise to you for, she was doing her job, you were the one making remarks about what she was wearing.

Her skin colour has nothing to do with this situation at all? You just said she was young and ignorant of the policies.... you know that all people can be young and ignorant, right? Like, what?

What are you scared of? I keep seeing this expression but what is it you're all scared of? Minorities having equal rights?
I'm glad you took the time to express this.
I literally was so shocked about his statement that I honestly could not gather my thoughts.
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Postby hellohello » Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:01 pm

America is pure evil. They will start WW3. :-?
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Postby TIfan » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:26 pm

^^^ Not all of us.
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Postby xBFG » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:10 pm

The way how I'm dragged here

I do sound like a racist. Maybe I am racist. I don't really care.
I'm saying maybe bs for many/all of you but why I have to keep it for myself ?

About my work - I was her supervisor on the shift so I had right to do that

About KKK - I do apologise for it because that was too extra and even if I don't like some people shouldn't say this because I know what was happening when KKK really existed so I am taking this back but my feeling are messed up at this moment and I feel like having your own say to people with different colour skin or religion Me as white person gay and (not very practical) Catholic or Christian but from born I can't be myself without being lashed and dragged only because is wrong and inappropriate

Another thing I am from Poland and I have had bad experiences from being polish here in the UK which makes me feel a bit too sensitive and tougher and rougher in words

Anyway I do apologise for my words but I feel like world is just going in wrong direction and some people are using some attributes as weapon and advantage because they can ...
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Postby TIfan » Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:52 pm

Apology????

You just openly supported a group that has raped, tortured, beat, abd kidnapped all because of an experience. You supported a group that also killed Catholics, Jews, and gays of all colors including whites. The same group that bombed churches, killing many. You supported that with your post. Because of an experience??? Hold people accountable for their own actions. Not an entire group of people. You can keep your apology.
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Postby Serby » Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:44 am

So you're Polish? All clear then. :lol:
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Postby Guru » Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:41 am

His mother, Samantha Bloom, told the Toledo Blade that she didn't know her son was going to Virginia for a white nationalist rally. She thought it had something to do with President Donald Trump.
http://us.cnn.com/2017/08/12/us/charlot ... index.html

Did she think it was a business strategy session? :lol:
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Postby xBFG » Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:42 am

TIfan wrote:Apology????

You just openly supported a group that has raped, tortured, beat, abd kidnapped all because of an experience. You supported a group that also killed Catholics, Jews, and gays of all colors including whites. The same group that bombed churches, killing many. You supported that with your post. Because of an experience??? Hold people accountable for their own actions. Not an entire group of people. You can keep your apology.
I see wow thank you for that information... I didn't support anybody
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Postby xBFG » Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:43 am

Serby wrote:So you're Polish? All clear then. :lol:
And I thought I'm the only racist here
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Postby MrRager » Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:52 am

WTF xBFG! Speechless.
#Pray4AL6
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Postby Serby » Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:48 am

xBFG wrote:
Serby wrote:So you're Polish? All clear then. :lol:
And I thought I'm the only racist here
No, I'm from Serbia so I know the way average person in our countries thinks. So you're just a result of your country and what makes it the worst is that a gay person would say such stuff, especially coming from a country where you're not really treated nicely.
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Postby Carbon » Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:48 am

Serby wrote:
xBFG wrote:
Serby wrote:So you're Polish? All clear then. :lol:
And I thought I'm the only racist here
No, I'm from Serbia so I know the way average person in our countries thinks. So you're just a result of your country and what makes it the worst is that a gay person would say such stuff, especially coming from a country where you're not really treated nicely.
+ Polish is not a race :lol:
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Postby Michiel » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:45 am

Carbon wrote:
Serby wrote:
xBFG wrote:
Serby wrote:So you're Polish? All clear then. :lol:
And I thought I'm the only racist here
No, I'm from Serbia so I know the way average person in our countries thinks. So you're just a result of your country and what makes it the worst is that a gay person would say such stuff, especially coming from a country where you're not really treated nicely.
+ Polish is not a race :lol:
In his defence the notion racism doesn't imply a race in a restrictive sense per say. It's used for discrimination/prejudices against a race (in a broad sense) or an ethnicity. Race isn't commonly used in Europe, but it is in the US. When they talk about race there they actually also talk about what we imply with ethnicity. Once you try to define race/ethnicity the real complexity starts. Ethnicity could be based on cutlural markers, religious markers, nation states, migration flows, etc. In Belgium for example there is something like a Polish ethnicity, mainly because they are a ethnic-cultural minority within our nation. In this perspective racism is the right term to use.

ps Others would also link racism with power+prejudices/discrimination (they would argue that minorities can't be racist towards a majority, because they don't have the structural/societal power to do so). I don't agree, although power is of course the biggest reason why minorities experience so many disadvantages from discrimination etc.

Still love you though and carry on :lol: <3
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Postby Serby » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:54 am

And I agree with samra, as much as I think that post was awful, perma ban is maybe not an option as I believe that he could change. I think he doesn't realise how strong and wrong it is what he said as he doesn't strike me as someone with clear racist ideologies, rather tricked by the media, but maybe I'm too optimistic. Also, unlike Americans, you really can be uninformed about this issue if you're from Europe, especially from countries like Poland, Balkans etc.

I always find it weird when a person of an opressed minority fails to see behind the far-righr ideologies (black peope being homophobic, gays racist etc.), but people just want someone else to be a black sheep I think.
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Postby urbanmusik » Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:07 am

I've seen plenty of racism on ukmix in the past, but I never thought I'd see someone advocating for the KKK, saying that black women can get away with anything and then denying that their posts are racist, but also claiming that they don't care if they're racist anyway.

It's terrifying, but unsurprising since I've noticed a rise in people harbouring these kind of beliefs towards minoriites, especially among young white people.

I hate seeing how venomous people can become at the thought of minorities having the same rights and representation as them.

The fact that nazis are now marching in the US is crazy. Those images are sickening.
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Postby Serby » Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:16 am

Yeah, the anount of time I hear 'gay (or minority) people have more rights than normal people' is crazy. People can't even understand the logic behind having a hate crimes as a special case of crime.

Like if you stand up against discrimination and someone gets 'fined' for it, you suddenly have some special rights.
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Postby Carbon » Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:30 am

Michiel wrote:In his defence the notion racism doesn't imply a race in a restrictive sense per say. It's used for discrimination/prejudices against a race (in a broad sense) or an ethnicity. Race isn't commonly used in Europe, but it is in the US. When they talk about race there they actually also talk about what we imply with ethnicity. Once you try to define race/ethnicity the real complexity starts. Ethnicity could be based on cutlural markers, religious markers, nation states, migration flows, etc. In Belgium for example there is something like a Polish ethnicity, mainly because they are a ethnic-cultural minority within our nation. In this perspective racism is the right term to use.

ps Others would also link racism with power+prejudices/discrimination (they would argue that minorities can't be racist towards a majority, because they don't have the structural/societal power to do so). I don't agree, although power is of course the biggest reason why minorities experience so many disadvantages from discrimination etc.

Still love you though and carry on :lol: <3
thanks for that, didn't know racism was also applied to ethnic groups. I'd just use nationalism/xenophobia for ethnicities. but your explanation makes sense. love ya back :*
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Postby Michiel » Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:43 am

Serby wrote:I always find it weird when a person of an opressed minority fails to see behind the far-righr ideologies (black peope being homophobic, gays racist etc.), but people just want someone else to be a black sheep I think.
I used to wonder about this (and I still do every day tbh), but I do think social categorization is just a human trait. You can't see everyone as an individual. It would also make multiple social identification procesess impossible.
So social demarcation is inevitable, that's why social/ethnic/gender/... boundaries are the real subjects to be discussed. Differences can be defined in a myriad ways. I myself believe that we can strive for a world where these mechanism can be all defined in more positive/progressive ways but they can't be demolished. But a common mistake I do believe progressive groups make is that they reify boundaries and lack self-critical thought when they do so. From an individual way point of view I'm not afraid to admit that I made (implicit and explicit) racist remarks, that I reified gender boundaries, etc. It starts with continuous self-awareness (on a all levels). Key to all of this is education in my opinion.

So approaching it from the boundary-making perspective It's not that hard to understand why oppressed groups are more harsh towards each other sometimes rather than 'combining their experiences' towards the (powerful) majority. (for example) An ethnic minority uses a lot of subtle mechanisms for trying to be the best ethnic minority of all ethnic minorities (for example a non-religious ethnic group will use this trait to potray their ethnic identity to be more alinged with the (European) National (read: white) European identity than Muslim identities). This is just one of the numerous ways boundary making happens. We see the same processes among people of lower social classes or even among members of the lgbtq community (think about ways (some) gay people define themselves are being better than more fenimine men, being better than transgenders, being better than bisexuals because they actually can make a choice, being better than pedofiles (which can also viewed as a pure sexual minority in a scientific sense),... The way I see it it's like when oppressed groups have been fighting (mostly for decades) to get a respected societal postion they also try everything in their power to keep that position (also the road to that postion comes with a lot of discrimination of other groups). At some point they become part of the norm and values they have been attacking (nowadays these values can be defined as 'neutrality,' 'liberal', 'equality (not equity)',....). When that happens history tends to be forgotten. You could argue that the values/norms of a society actually change a little bit to include them (because it became inevitable not to do so) but the mechanism that exclude/include are still pretty much in tact. I mean who really wants to trade their power in favour of others when they have a real 'free' choice?

To really aspire change the fight needs to continue even when you are fully embraced/aligned with the norms/values of a society. That's the toughtest part cause you run the risk of losing all the power you collected. To use a metaphor it's basically cutting your own skin.

I think those are different views to look at the paradox you mentioned. In that way I can understand why it happens (also because I do it myself through a myriad of actions). I do try to fight this fight through my work and other activities, but as one person without any institutional political power you can only focus on a little fraction of one domain. It's a 'Sisyphus labour' tbh, but I don't mind.
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Postby Muzikritik » Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:46 pm

I'm in NYC at the moment and watched this live on the news. It really is strange seeing some of the reactions and feelings brought up about this.

But then, I'm mixed race and grew up in New Zealand - one of the most peaceful and politically progressive nations in the word. I'm sure there is racism in NZ but generally, it's not an issue we deal with it. As a result, I grew up to love and support people from every background. Lucky me.... this is not the case for so many people. I was shocked when I ventured out into the world and found so many western cultures resisting acceptance of others. That said, telling somebody that their thinking is wrong when they've grown up thinking they're right rarely works to reverse the situation.

Humans are not born with prejudice, it's something that we learn from our environment. I can't imagine what it must be like to have hate instilled in you in exactly the same way that love can be. I can't ever agree with inequality but I have to at least try to understand what a person must have lived through and experienced so that we can all love forward as a people.

And you know, hurt people also hurt people. Our Polish friend seems to have dealt with his own share of discrimination and hate and as a result is maybe externalising it on to others to feel slightly better. It doesn't make it 'right' but I can understand that.

And umm yeah. End rant.
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Postby Michiel » Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:48 pm

I really like this statement by Paul Gorski (US Social scientist who mainly works around multicultural education, social justice and whiteness) by the way:

Paul C. Gorski wrote:My impulse when I saw yesterday's white supremacist rally was disgust with the people rallying. My impulse was to separate myself from them. "I'm not THAT kind of white person." Then I caught myself. This reaction is disingenuous. No, I'm not a neo-Nazi and there is nothing about the stated politics or ideology of the "alt-right" that I find compelling. But white supremacy falls along a vast continuum. It doesn't exist as just a single distant right-side point on that continuum where people wave Confederate flags, get Nazi tattoos, join police forces in order to oppress People of Color, and chant "White Lives Matter."

For example, the temptation to prioritize a false sense of racial harmony over a true sense of racial justice--a temptation I have felt and one reflected in a lot of posts I'm seeing from white friends this morning--is on that continuum. Choosing to step in and out of the fight for racial justice based on convenience or comfort when People of Color do not have that option--a choice I am able by virtue of white supremacy to make--is on that continuum. Participating in a consumer culture, being sucked into the social and cultural pressure to care about fashion or to have trendy gadgets, despite the fact that it has the most devastating effects on economically marginalized communities of color all over the world--something I do every day--is on that continuum.

So the question is not, "How am I as a white person distinct from those jackasses?" Rather, the question I grapple with this morning is, "In what ways do my beliefs and behaviors overlap with, and result in the same sets of conditions as, the beliefs and behaviors of those jackasses?" It is a difficult and essential question and I am useless to any movement for racial justice when I stop asking it.
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Postby heppolo » Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:04 pm

urbanmusik wrote:
The fact that nazis are now marching in the US is crazy. Those images are sickening.
90 years ago, in 1927 someone named Fred Trump was arrested at guess which rally
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