Catalonia | Puigdemont to be arrested in Belgium

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Postby stevyy » Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:22 am

Catalonia cannot be independent if the EU doesn't help them economically... and that is the most unlikely scenario because it would be directed as an affront against Spain. Also, I assume Spain would have a say in it as well... regarding financial support of the region in case of independence and it will not support any of this.

The most likely scenario is that the region declares itself independent. Spain will then block it economically and at the same time become completely dependent on EU support. Another bail out packet must be established to protect Spain. Germany, France, Italy, Netherlands and other rich EU countries will have to support Spain on all fronts. Many companies will leave Catalonia. They may receive help from the UK and Russia and maybe China and US who will all be quick and try to buy whatever profitable companies the region has.

Before they know it, they will be sold and become a protectorate of another country. And then this new KING in the house, maybe Russia, or China or US or UK will cut some of the new-found independent rights and Catalonia will find itself in a very dire situation.

The other scenario of Catalonia succeeding is so unrealistic. Whatever the region tries to achieve by this... they should wait their time and even if it takes another 20-30 years... do it legally and patiently and then they have a chance to succeed.
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Postby imlookedat81 » Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:28 am

Talking about The Mossos d'Esquadra, here a few images of how they fighted demostrations during 15-M in Barcelona:

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Bojan wrote:Plus, the most of that money is coming from Catalonia, anyway.
I'm sorry, but comments like this are just laughable.

The Catalan government owes €77bn (£68bn) at the last count, or 35.4% of Catalonia's GDP. Of that, €52bn is owed to the Spanish government.
In 2012, the Spanish government set up a special fund to provide cash to the regions, who were unable to borrow money on the international markets after the financial crisis. Catalonia has been by far the biggest beneficiary of this scheme, taking €67bn since it began.
Not only would Catalonia lose access to that scheme, but it would raise the question of how much debt Catalonia would be willing to repay after independence.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41474674

The Government of Spain already covers 66% of the total debt of the Generalitat of Catalonia, according to a report of the Bank of Spain issued yesterday. This percentage means that the Catalan Government has practically quadrupled since 2012 its dependence on state funding. Its current low ratings on all international credit rating agencies prevents the Generalitat from issuing patriotic bonds or going to markets and banks, so it resorts to the state as the sole lender. Its lack of credibility has also made it the only ineligible community in the European Central Bank's regional debt purchase programs.
http://www.elmundo.es/economia/2017/05/ ... b462f.html

It is so easy to dismantle their fallacy and lies, it sometimes helps to read a bit you know :wink:
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Postby MusicRecords » Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:17 am

^terrible images :o
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Postby Bojan » Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:29 pm

^European democracy. :lol: The EU didn't even condemn it.
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Postby Serby » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:11 pm

So if I get it well, Catalan president said that independent Catalonia should not happen now cuz everyone and their momma staryed moving their companies to other parts of Spain. :lol:
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Postby Hugo » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:22 pm

Yes, dumb as a rock.

Catalonia is is one of Spain's wealthiest regions, accounting for a quarter of the country's exports. But a stream of companies have announced plans to move their head offices out of Catalonia in response to the crisis.
The European Union has made clear that should Catalonia split from Spain, the region would cease to be part of the EU.
I don't think these people realize how important the EU really is and all of its agencies.

EFSA and EMA are impeccably run health-related agencies that no European country alone could dream of having, and these are just two that I'm most familiar with.
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Postby imlookedat81 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:08 am

I saw the speech of the Catalonia president yesterday and it was embarrassing. Lie after lie after lie, I've started to think they live a parallel universe. They don't know what to do anymore, after all those companies leaving and the demonstration for the unity of Spain and Catalonia with more than 1M people on Sunday.

First they said companies wouldn't leave (false), then they said an independent Catalonia would be part of Europe (false), then they said that if "yes" won in the illegal referendum (that has not validity at all) they would declare independence in 48h (false), now he declares independence and 8 seconds later suspends it (how can you suspend something that doesn't even exist?). And they keep comparing with Scotland when they are nothing alike, first of all Catalonia has NEVER been a country itself, either part of The Kingdom of Aragón or Spain, and second and more important, they have no natural resources. Yes they are a rich region, but that would change the moment they are out of Europe and tariffs start being applied, they would loose all competitiveness, without even counting all companies that would leave (SEAT factory among others).

And don't be fooled by their dialogue petition, they only want to discuss the terms of independence, nothing more, and of course the answer from Madrid will be no, first because it is against Constitution and against all Spanish citizens rights, and second because they are not majority in Catalonia.
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Postby MusicRecords » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:56 am

^wow mess :o but yeah it really makes no sense to leave if all those things will happen to them
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Postby stevyy » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:39 pm

MusicRecords wrote:^wow mess :o but yeah it really makes no sense to leave if all those things will happen to them
well the uk left europe... and they also still think that it's a good idea.
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Postby MusicRecords » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:41 pm

stevyy wrote:
MusicRecords wrote:^wow mess :o but yeah it really makes no sense to leave if all those things will happen to them
well the uk left europe... and they also still think that it's a good idea.
I feel like those is a wayyyy bigger mess though :lol: the UK can handle leaving the EU in the long run I think

But Catalonia? With major companies leaving and them exiting from the EU...it would be a terrible start and the irony is that even though they’re considered a good economic part of Spain now, that would probably plummet if all that happens
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Postby stevyy » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:28 pm

MusicRecords wrote:
stevyy wrote:
MusicRecords wrote:^wow mess :o but yeah it really makes no sense to leave if all those things will happen to them
well the uk left europe... and they also still think that it's a good idea.
I feel like those is a wayyyy bigger mess though :lol: the UK can handle leaving the EU in the long run I think

But Catalonia? With major companies leaving and them exiting from the EU...it would be a terrible start and the irony is that even though they’re considered a good economic part of Spain now, that would probably plummet if all that happens
now multiply those negatives in the case of the UK since it is its own country.

anyway, I am glad Catalonia suspended independence... let's suspend Europe's pending demise to after christmas.
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Postby maroon » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:15 pm

No-one's leaving Europe, even if Catalonia turns to be independent and outside of the EU, it will still remain in Europe and will do just fine on its own, there's way too much drama here.
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Postby MusicRecords » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:10 pm

maroon wrote:No-one's leaving Europe, even if Catalonia turns to be independent and outside of the EU, it will still remain in Europe and will do just fine on its own, there's way too much drama here.
I think we all know that they won't physically move the land out of Europe :lol:
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Postby stevyy » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:18 pm

MusicRecords wrote:
maroon wrote:No-one's leaving Europe, even if Catalonia turns to be independent and outside of the EU, it will still remain in Europe and will do just fine on its own, there's way too much drama here.
I think we all know that they won't physically move the land out of Europe :lol:
wait... they don't? then what's all the fuss about? :oops:
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Postby MusicRecords » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:26 pm

stevyy wrote:
MusicRecords wrote:
maroon wrote:No-one's leaving Europe, even if Catalonia turns to be independent and outside of the EU, it will still remain in Europe and will do just fine on its own, there's way too much drama here.
I think we all know that they won't physically move the land out of Europe :lol:
wait... they don't? then what's all the fuss about? :oops:
Stop it :lol:
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Postby menime123 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:23 pm

maroon wrote:No-one's leaving Europe, even if Catalonia turns to be independent and outside of the EU, it will still remain in Europe and will do just fine on its own, there's way too much drama here.
*Waves from Britain*

Give it 50 years :lol:
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Postby stevyy » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:38 am

menime123 wrote:
maroon wrote:No-one's leaving Europe, even if Catalonia turns to be independent and outside of the EU, it will still remain in Europe and will do just fine on its own, there's way too much drama here.
*Waves from Britain*

Give it 50 years :lol:
in 50 years... i don't think the EU still exists... it's either gone... or became the USE.
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Postby imlookedat81 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:34 pm

No drama at all, I believe there are now a few other regions in Spain that wouldn't mind if Catalonia leaves, they would be more than welcome to take in so many companies... It would just be sad though for the majority of people in Catalonia that still feel they are Spanish and Catalanes.
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Postby spiritboy » Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:26 pm

Catalonia just declared independence from Spain :o
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Postby MusicRecords » Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:54 pm

spiritboy wrote:Catalonia just declared independence from Spain :o
And Spain will probably say it was an illegal vote and it'll be a mess all over again :roll: :lol:
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Postby grooveboy » Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:59 pm

I just hope the Yugoslavia scenario won't repeat 'cos if Catalonia gets through with this I predict Basque Country will follow in their footsteps, and that could get really messy
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Postby Serby » Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:57 pm

grooveboy wrote:I just hope the Yugoslavia scenario won't repeat 'cos if Catalonia gets through with this I predict Basque Country will follow in their footsteps, and that could get really messy
There are maps out there comparing Spain with Yugoslavia and its so funny :lol:
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Postby menime123 » Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:54 pm

MusicRecords wrote:
spiritboy wrote:Catalonia just declared independence from Spain :o
And Spain will probably say it was an illegal vote and it'll be a mess all over again :roll: :lol:
It was an illegal vote. I fully support Spain on this, as does my country, the EU and the US. There are ways and means to achieve independence and this isn’t it.

It’ll be interesting to see how this goes down because frankly, this sort of thing doesn’t happen in places like Spain. I mean, honestly, you have to laugh about it :lol:

I do hope Spain doesn’t use excessive force, but appreciate force will be needed. But I don’t see Catalonia backing down and therefore I wonder if this is just a ploy to force Spain’s hand into offering a legal referendum.

But Catalonia went about this all in entirely the wrong way. I know Scotland was a bit different in that it’s a recognised sovereign country, but the UK going through 2 referendums in the way we just have shows how it should be done.
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Postby Wayne » Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:07 pm

Such an empty declaration.

The Spanish prime minister is currently in a cabinet meeting; the Spanish senate have already given the prime minister the authority to sack the Catalonian government.

This will get worse before it gets better.
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Postby imlookedat81 » Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:11 pm

That declaration has the same validity as if I do it, NONE. They were probably not happy with the 1700 companies that have left Catalonia already, they wanted to hurt their own people even more. But don’t worry Catalanes, the Spanish Government and the rest of Spain are there for you, all together we will restore democracy and legality in Catalonia.
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