Catalonia | Puigdemont to be arrested in Belgium

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Postby MusicRecords » Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:38 pm

The videos are quite violent, can’t believe the police are just pushing and hitting people like that
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Postby Wayne » Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:43 pm

Spain's king to deliver address to nation at 1900 GMT

MADRID, Oct 3 (Reuters) - Spain’s King Felipe VI will deliver a televised address to the nation at 1900 GMT, the royal household said on Tuesday.


The king met Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy earlier on Tuesday to discuss the situation in Catalonia where hundreds of people were hurt on Sunday as police swung truncheons and fired rubber bullets to disrupt a banned vote on independence.
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Postby imlookedat81 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:20 pm

MusicRecords wrote:The videos are quite violent, can’t believe the police are just pushing and hitting people like that
Haven’t you seen the videos of people attacking the police? Throwing stones and metal fences at them? I as Spanish citizen thank our police for defend my rights, legality and the Constitution in my country.
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Postby Hugo » Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:27 pm

I saw a woman probably in her 50s covered in blood, it's truly sad what is happening, the police clearly didn't handle it well, but the people made their job really difficult.
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Postby imlookedat81 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:09 pm

If you mean this one, fake as many others

Image

I’m not justifying violence in any case, but it’s very simplistic to see a video or picture and critie police without knowing what the real problem is. The Supreme Court (in Catalonia, not Spain) prohibited the illegal referendum and Catlonian police promised to have the electoral colleges closed by 6 am. They lied and of course didn’t close them making Spanish police to act late and being no prepared which caused that situation. Now the independent party has what they always wanted, pictures of citizens and police fighting. Kids and old people to the front as they said on the speakers...
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Postby Hugo » Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:15 pm

Yeah, that one.

Fake? I don't want to believe that, it's too Orwellian and it'd just depress me.
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Postby Mainshow » Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:42 pm

There's footage of police officers attacking eldery people, people who sit peacefully, etc.

This referendum should have never happened that way and it should gave never been executed that way.

But calling those bleeding victims - almost 900 people "fake" and that it was justified because the police was defending "your rights" is super disgusting and honestly, I think everyone who thinks like that should be ashamed of him- or herself.
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Postby Serby » Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:00 am

My spaniah roomate also said that quite a few of the alleged victims are fake. No denying the video tho.
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Postby imlookedat81 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:45 am

Mainshow wrote:There's footage of police officers attacking eldery people, people who sit peacefully, etc.

This referendum should have never happened that way and it should gave never been executed that way.

But calling those bleeding victims - almost 900 people "fake" and that it was justified because the police was defending "your rights" is super disgusting and honestly, I think everyone who thinks like that should be ashamed of him- or herself.
I can tell you I’m very proud of myself and I can also tell you there were not 900 people injured
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Postby MusicRecords » Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:41 pm

Interesting...didn’t know people were faking some stuff :o but from the vids there’s def violence involved between the people and the police however u want to see it
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Postby jio » Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:59 pm

As a person I tend to dislike sensationalist videos of news events, not because they are necessarily fake but because they can influence my opinion in a sentimental way. Always the best way to form opinions is reading, not just because you get much more inside and deeper knowledge that way but also because it's less sensationalist.

Police brutality is disgusting and it is in this case too. Even if people attacked the police, the police should have been able to cope in a less brutal way and if it wasn't they should just have left the place, it's not as if a murder was taking place. That said police brutality is something that happens in many many countries, it was an issue in Greece in several occasions the last 7 years for example, yet it was not discussed here because it was not promoted so much by our "neutral" media... Also I want to say that police brutality should be a wake-up call for police reform on the national level and not a factor giving legitimacy to break-away movements.
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Postby MusicRecords » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:36 pm

I’m just not sure they know what they’re getting into by being independent...they might have $ now but once they go independent a lot of $ goes into that...it might just backfire big time a la Jamaica
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Postby Bojan » Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:34 pm

Congratulations to Catalonia.
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Postby MusicRecords » Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:54 am

Bojan wrote:Congratulations to Catalonia.
Wait what? Are they actually gonna be independent now? :o
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Postby Serby » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:16 am

MusicRecords wrote:
Bojan wrote:Congratulations to Catalonia.
Wait what? Are they actually gonna be independent now? :o
They are gonna declare it soon I think. They said if the won the vote, they will do it.
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Postby imlookedat81 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:58 am

No, fortunately for Catalonia people they won't be independent. The referendum was illegal, despite people being able to vote several times (google and you'll see the pictures), with no identification, with urns full of votes even before the voting started (google and you'll see the videos), only 42% of people called to vote actually "voted".

It is really sad to see Catalonia government doing that to their own people, to impoverish what once was the most prosperous region in Spain like that, to see how kids are called names at schools even by teachers if their parents are police or if they are not independent, to see Catalonia people losing their jobs because companies are moving corporate headquarters to Madrid (many have done it already and much more are ready to do it). But Spain is strong and has full support from Europe, hopefully this madness will end soon.
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Postby MusicRecords » Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:40 am

Wait what? I’m so confused :lol: so some say indeed the votes were messed up so they won’t be independent but Lthers are saying that they will declare independence on Monday...? What’s the truth? :lol:
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Postby Bojan » Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:41 am

Catalonia moves to declare independence from Spain on Monday
We know that there may be disbarments, arrests ... But we are prepared, and in no case will it be stopped.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-spai ... SKCN1C9109

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Postby Hugo » Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:13 am

Arrest him.

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Nothing more than a demagogue and agitator.
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Postby imlookedat81 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:14 am

MusicRecords wrote:Wait what? I’m so confused :lol: so some say indeed the votes were messed up so they won’t be independent but Lthers are saying that they will declare independence on Monday...? What’s the truth? :lol:
The moment Catalonia leaders declare independence unilaterally they will be barred and prosecuted by the tribunals. Spanish central government will then take over the autonomy and new elections will take place in Catalonia to chose a new parliament. Depending on the majority of that new parliament will see what comes next.
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Postby heppolo » Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:37 am

Several latin countries (especially with the left wing government) are supporting Catalonia via their media (teleSUR, for example)
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Postby Xevi » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:00 am

I'm Catalan and in favour of independence, so I thought I'd shed some light over here. Basically, a majority here stand by our President and our Government, because they answered a call by the people. Spanish law is no longer valid for us, they have gone too far with the repression, not once wanting to talk about this issue politically and only answering with violence and threads.

So independence is the only way to go. If you treat your partner or your children unrespectfully and turn to violence with them, what should be the fair answer? Start by walking away, and then take the abusers to trial.
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Postby Hugo » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:07 am

Xevi wrote:I'm Catalan and in favour of independence, so I thought I'd shed some light over here. Basically, a majority here stand by our President and our Government, because they answered a call by the people. Spanish law is no longer valid for us, they have gone too far with the repression, not once wanting to talk about this issue politically and only answering with violence and threads.

So independence is the only way to go. If you treat your partner or your children unrespectfully and turn to violence with them, what should be the fair answer? Start by walking away, and then take the abusers to trial.
That's not a valid argument.

For years we've complained that the northern regions of Portugal have lacked the same attention the southern regions get, despite the incredible working force present. Porto never got the same chances as Lisbon (again a recent dispute with the EMA - European Medicines Agency - still located in London), but never for a second did we even start to think about independence, because that wouldn't make any sense. The same happens with lots of countries, most actually.
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Postby Xevi » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:23 am

Hugo wrote:
Xevi wrote:I'm Catalan and in favour of independence, so I thought I'd shed some light over here. Basically, a majority here stand by our President and our Government, because they answered a call by the people. Spanish law is no longer valid for us, they have gone too far with the repression, not once wanting to talk about this issue politically and only answering with violence and threads.

So independence is the only way to go. If you treat your partner or your children unrespectfully and turn to violence with them, what should be the fair answer? Start by walking away, and then take the abusers to trial.
That's not a valid argument.

For years we've complained that the northern regions of Portugal have lacked the same attention the southern regions get, despite the incredible working force present. Porto never got the same chances as Lisbon (again a recent dispute with the EMA - European Medicines Agency - still located in London), but never for a second did we even start to think about independence, because that wouldn't make any sense. The same happens with lots of countries, most actually.
I'm sorry, but you can't invalidate other people's arguments. You can give another point of view, you can argue with what I say, but you have no right to say my thoughts are not valid unless I'm defending Nazism or any other dictatorship.

What I'm offering are my thoughts and feelings about the issue, and I live here, so I guess I must know something. If independence doesn't make any sense for people in Porto, I guess it's right that you stay with Portugal, but this is a particular issue we're talking about, in another land with its own specificities.
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Postby Bojan » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:53 am

imlookedat81 wrote:
MusicRecords wrote:Wait what? I’m so confused :lol: so some say indeed the votes were messed up so they won’t be independent but Lthers are saying that they will declare independence on Monday...? What’s the truth? :lol:
The moment Catalonia leaders declare independence unilaterally they will be barred and prosecuted by the tribunals. Spanish central government will then take over the autonomy and new elections will take place in Catalonia to chose a new parliament. Depending on the majority of that new parliament will see what comes next.
That seems like Kosovo scenario. At least, that's how it started. It would be smarter to let them decide, like Scotland. They would get an illusion that they are free to choose, and they would probably choose to stay. Serbia is not as powerful as Spain, so the West easily did to us the same thing like Russia to Ukraine - ignoring international law, staging ethnic cleansing etc (while in reality only Serbs were ethnically cleansed), so I guess that Spain will be resisting to it more efficiently and for a longer time, but it will be getting worse and worse and they better start learning from our example until it's too late. Because, that what you're predicting is not a solution at all, and it will cause even bigger troubles to both sides.
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