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Postby ArmyOfMe » Thu Jun 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Since UKMIX Hot Topics (one of the most interesting topics on here) is locked, I wanted to open a thread about this because I'm interested in your opinion about this topic.
I'm watching a TV program about homophobia, homosexuality and the Church, families with homosexual parents, etc.. It's a sort of arena where people are discussing their different views about those topics, and among them there's also a homosexual against same-sex families. I was wondering, it's not the first time I've heard homosexuals sharing homophobic views: gays saying that it's right to be gay but it's the "fa****s" that damage the "reputation" of the gay community; bottom shaming; gays saying that gays are always sluts (mind you, I said that too once, I don't want to accuse anyone); transphobic homosexuals, etc..

What do you think of it? Has it ever happened to you? Do you think we have a share of blame for the homophobic views outside of the LGBT community?

Discuss.
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Postby Mariah4Mimi » Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:04 pm

One time this one bi guy called my friend a faggot (my friend is gay). :D I laughed right in his face and then he wanted to fight me, like back off, I'm not about to fight a boy.
EDIT: I just remembered this one time my gay friend I talked about up above was talking about bi people, and he said that bisexuality not even real, it's just a thing for people who are too scared to come out fully gay, and I was like WTF shut up
Last edited by Mariah4Mimi on Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby SholasBoy » Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:06 pm

From working in gay bars over the last decade, one thing that always winds me up, is young "new things" on the scene, being rude to older guys and transexuals. I don't know why they think they have such superiority, mincing into a bar like they own the place, pulling faces towards an older guy as if he's a dirty old man, or making fun of someone transgendered. There seems to be such a lack of respect for the people that fought for these people to have the freedom to be themselves in the first place. It reminds me of the idea some straight guys have that every gay guy is going to fancy them, guess what, not every 50 year old homosexual is attracted to plastic orange twinks either...

I know only too well that those years in your late teens and early 20s soon go.
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Postby Madgefan » Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:20 pm

The first thing that comes to mind is the gay community's attitude to camp guys. When I was younger you used to see guys advertising for another guy but would say things like 'straight acting only', 'no femmes'. I'm sure that probably goes on even now with Grindr. I've even heard them described as an embarrassment to the gay community and the worst one, as a justification as to why straight people are homophobic :o
Even amongst my own friends it's happened. On a night out with a group of friends, I brought another friend with me to meet them, one turned to me and said, 'Did you have to bring that really loud, camp guy?' . I was shocked tbh. I don't really think about things like that so it would never have crossed my mind.

I have also met gay people who are against same-sex adoption, think transexuals are creepy and so on. I find it disturbing but not totally surprising as everyone has their own opinions whatever their sexuality is.
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Postby ArmyOfMe » Thu Jun 04, 2015 10:02 pm

I had a friend the other day who was shocked at the fact that I'm not only a bottom, just because my first sexual experiences were in that role :lol: :lol: :lol: that one is often a label, IMO (there could be preferences, but ultimately it's a social construction, I think).

SholasBoy wrote:From working in gay bars over the last decade, one thing that always winds me up, is young "new things" on the scene, being rude to older guys and transexuals. I don't know why they think they have such superiority, mincing into a bar like they own the place, pulling faces towards an older guy as if he's a dirty old man, or making fun of someone transgendered.
Oh yeah, ageism inside the LGBT community is another issue. The first time I actually came to consider it under a different light was when I watched Cucumber. It's something rarely dealt with, indeed.

Madgefan wrote:I have also met gay people who are against same-sex adoption, think transexuals are creepy and so on. I find it disturbing but not totally surprising as everyone has their own opinions whatever their sexuality is.
Of course, this is not only a matter of sexuality but of idiocy, IMO. I dated a Russian guy who was like the biggest Putin stan, for instance :lol: :lol: :lol: (yeah, I dumped him in a minute of course :P )
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Postby Thriller » Thu Jun 04, 2015 10:06 pm

SholasBoy wrote:From working in gay bars over the last decade, one thing that always winds me up, is young "new things" on the scene, being rude to older guys and transexuals. I don't know why they think they have such superiority, mincing into a bar like they own the place, pulling faces towards an older guy as if he's a dirty old man, or making fun of someone transgendered. There seems to be such a lack of respect for the people that fought for these people to have the freedom to be themselves in the first place. It reminds me of the idea some straight guys have that every gay guy is going to fancy them, guess what, not every 50 year old homosexual is attracted to plastic orange twinks either...

I know only too well that those years in your late teens and early 20s soon go.
I hope Adam has apologised!
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Postby Madgefan » Thu Jun 04, 2015 10:15 pm

ArmyOfMe wrote:Of course, this is not only a matter of sexuality but of idiocy, IMO. I dated a Russian guy who was like the biggest Putin stan, for instance :lol: :lol: :lol: (yeah, I dumped him in a minute of course :P )
Doesn't matter how cute someone is sometimes .... some things are unforgiveable :) :P
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Postby CrazyCrazy » Thu Jun 04, 2015 10:34 pm

I couldn't be further away from the stereotype if I tried, I'm shy, introverted, anxious, my music taste is not what people expect, anything but promiscuous....I do hope not all gay guys are that superficial and shallow or I'm forever alone. :oops:
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Postby Madgefan » Thu Jun 04, 2015 10:38 pm

CrazyCrazy wrote:I couldn't be further away from the stereotype if I tried, I'm shy, introverted, my music taste is not what people expect, anything but promiscuous....I do hope not all gay guys are that superficial and shallow or I'm forever alone. :oops:
You won't be .... afterall I've been with a Frank Zappa fan for years :)
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Postby SholasBoy » Thu Jun 04, 2015 10:44 pm

Thriller wrote:I hope Adam has apologised!
Thriller lurking around the gay threads for a change :lol:
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Postby Alicepotter » Fri Jun 05, 2015 2:00 am

Good topic! I do not know if I'm going a little off topic, but I have something like that happening with a friend. He is being homophobic with himself, lol. Let me explain: My female friend started dating this boy 4 years ago, she knew he already had some experiences with men, but she gave him a chance because he said it was just a 'phase', but now she finished the relationship with him because she fell in love with another guy, and now her ex-boyfriend is stalking her, because he sees her as an escape from the LGBT world, she tried to make him accept himself, but he is a really religious, and do all the possible to be 'straight', the problem is that he simply does not leave my friend alone, he's always stalking her, trying to make she back to the relationship, and my friend is starting to get scared with what he can do to have that relationship back.

We just don't know how to make he accept himself, and I'm actually really scared that he might do something crazy to never come out. :-?
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Postby Mikerocha » Fri Jun 05, 2015 2:33 am

CrazyCrazy wrote:I couldn't be further away from the stereotype if I tried, I'm shy, introverted, anxious, my music taste is not what people expect, anything but promiscuous....I do hope not all gay guys are that superficial and shallow or I'm forever alone. :oops:
You're not. I'm an old fashioned hopeless romantic guy and all my gay friends call me weird because I don't hook up. So you're not alone :wink:

They even named me Mother Theresa of Hell's Kitchen. (The gay neigborhood in NYC LOL) :lol:
And I agree with Shane. I see that a lot that's why i stay away from the night scene.
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Postby Perzy » Fri Jun 05, 2015 2:49 am

I know exactly about what show you're talking (Announo), I didn't watch it, our tv shows are not able to discuss those arguments in a decent way and indeed I read on Spetteguless that it has been messy.

To respond to your specific matter, I think that majority of the older generation of italian gay (but also some of the younger) like Dolce&Gabbana, Malgioglio, Armani or Alfonso Signorini had interiorized in their mind what the society had always told them, especially in a religious country like our, so even if they're gay themselves their views are very archaic and bigot being against adoption, wedding or gay family in general, very hypocritical.

About the general matter there is for sure a lot of homophobia inside the LGBT community in general, like you said bottoms shaming, jokes and discrimination against feminine guys, transphobia.
I think that the main problem is a deep common ignorance, lack of education and indifference towards people in general (big problem of our society), so a lot of gay people care only about their specific own problems, so issues like the transgender things are not perceived from them like something to care about, so they're superficial or ignorant in the matter.
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Postby JimJim » Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:37 am

Thriller wrote:
SholasBoy wrote:From working in gay bars over the last decade, one thing that always winds me up, is young "new things" on the scene, being rude to older guys and transexuals. I don't know why they think they have such superiority, mincing into a bar like they own the place, pulling faces towards an older guy as if he's a dirty old man, or making fun of someone transgendered. There seems to be such a lack of respect for the people that fought for these people to have the freedom to be themselves in the first place. It reminds me of the idea some straight guys have that every gay guy is going to fancy them, guess what, not every 50 year old homosexual is attracted to plastic orange twinks either...

I know only too well that those years in your late teens and early 20s soon go.
I hope Adam has apologised!
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby Frederic » Fri Jun 05, 2015 6:44 am

On the other hand I feel that a lot of people who would stand no chance in the "straight world" at all (transvestites, drag queens, extravagant people) do get their spot in the LGBT community so it definitely works the other way round too.

Transgenders are generally avoided inside and outside the LGBT community though, that's a fact. I know some of them myself and sadly they have to put up with a lot of discrimination every day.
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Postby LionH3art » Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:07 am

I don't like feminine guys and transvestites.
I don't care about age and transgenders though! :)
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Postby ThomyX » Fri Jun 05, 2015 8:16 am

CrazyCrazy wrote:I couldn't be further away from the stereotype if I tried, I'm shy, introverted, anxious, my music taste is not what people expect, anything but promiscuous....I do hope not all gay guys are that superficial and shallow or I'm forever alone. :oops:
Tell me about it! :lol:

Interesting topic by the way, I rarely get the chance to interact with the LGBT community in person as I'm still in the closet, but I do come across instances like using bottom / twink / etc. as a derogatory term very often, which has always annoyed me. Also denying bisexuality, and being rude towards transgender people, but I've only encountered that online. I think it's got more to do with one's personality rather than with being part of the community, though. It's just that they're more vocal. Sadly, there will always be bullies and ignorant people, regardless of their sexuality.

It's usually the sentences starting with "I'm gay, BUT..." that provoke intense eye-rolling from me, they never end well. :lol:
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Postby Madgefan » Fri Jun 05, 2015 8:52 pm

Frederic wrote:On the other hand I feel that a lot of people who would stand no chance in the "straight world" at all (transvestites, drag queens, extravagant people) do get their spot in the LGBT community so it definitely works the other way round too.

Transgenders are generally avoided inside and outside the LGBT community though, that's a fact. I know some of them myself and sadly they have to put up with a lot of discrimination every day.
Bit of an odd thing to say as most men who are transvestites are straight men :) They just love wearing womens clothes.
I'm dying to know what an 'extravagant' person is. Is it someone who spends a lot of money? :)

Something else I realised to do with this topic is a lot of gay men seem to have a rather disresepctful attitude towards Lesbians. I'm not really sure why , I have quite a few lesbian friends and we have a great time together.
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Postby stevyy » Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:51 pm

i don't like one kind of gay:

stereotype my cousin:

It's the "I am nothing else but gay-type" or "I define myself as nothing more as being gay, a minority, fighting for rights, i am disrespected and unjustly treated in all areas of my life type of gay". My cousin is not a human being anymore.. he is GAY.. and that is everything that he is. He is married, but kisses other people when he is in bars (like heavy kissing), he is a nurse and married but sleeps with patients (for which he has lost his job).. he is also doctor gay.. he sees the GAY in everybody.. like having a serious conversation with some guy and trying to convince him that he is also gay... he is also fighting a lot.. no his life is an endless fight.. he is discriminated against in all areas of his life.. even shopping.. why are there no pink shopping cards? DISCRIMINATION.. why do ppl have a different opinion than him on random every-day things? DISCRIMINATION.. so you dont agree with him that he does everything right in his life? DISCRIMINATION.

even my sole rather chilled, politically mute behaviour to increase gay awareness makes me (also gay) discriminate him.

there no other topics apart from him being gay one could discuss with him.. all he is interested in, is being gay.. it is everything.. it all he talks about, everything that matters in life and everyone better agrees on everything.. or else DISCRIMINATION.

seriously dude, you embarrass me.. i am not gay if it means to vanish as a person behind your sexual orientation.. for me this is just one little side of me.. i am so much more as a person than just being gay, even i get offended when i see him mouth-raping random ppl in public.. like seriously, i would be as embarrassed if it was a straight couple tbh.

this is a type of gay i cannot stand at all. It is great to talk about your sexuality like when ppl ask you.. and stevyy what about you.. any boyfriends on the horizon? or sth like that.. but i not forcing myself on EVERYONE i know. It is great to be able to demonstrate for more equality and be happy about the new pro marriage law in Ireland.. but give me a break for once.. i do march for equality but not everyday.
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Postby Frederic » Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:16 am

Madgefan wrote:
Frederic wrote:On the other hand I feel that a lot of people who would stand no chance in the "straight world" at all (transvestites, drag queens, extravagant people) do get their spot in the LGBT community so it definitely works the other way round too.

Transgenders are generally avoided inside and outside the LGBT community though, that's a fact. I know some of them myself and sadly they have to put up with a lot of discrimination every day.
Bit of an odd thing to say as most men who are transvestites are straight men :) They just love wearing womens clothes.
I'm dying to know what an 'extravagant' person is. Is it someone who spends a lot of money? :)

Something else I realised to do with this topic is a lot of gay men seem to have a rather disresepctful attitude towards Lesbians. I'm not really sure why , I have quite a few lesbian friends and we have a great time together.
I actually meant those who like dressing up like women but not in a professional kind of way like drag queens do. Aren't those transvestites as well? :) With extravagant people I mean those with controversial looks – the Boy George kind of type. :P

I guess most gays guys just don't feel like they have anything in common with lesbians probably because the male aspect is completely missing.
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Postby Frederic » Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:28 am

stevyy wrote:i don't like one kind of gay:

stereotype my cousin:

It's the "I am nothing else but gay-type" or "I define myself as nothing more as being gay, a minority, fighting for rights, i am disrespected and unjustly treated in all areas of my life type of gay". My cousin is not a human being anymore.. he is GAY.. and that is everything that he is. He is married, but kisses other people when he is in bars (like heavy kissing), he is a nurse and married but sleeps with patients (for which he has lost his job).. he is also doctor gay.. he sees the GAY in everybody.. like having a serious conversation with some guy and trying to convince him that he is also gay... he is also fighting a lot.. no his life is an endless fight.. he is discriminated against in all areas of his life.. even shopping.. why are there no pink shopping cards? DISCRIMINATION.. why do ppl have a different opinion than him on random every-day things? DISCRIMINATION.. so you dont agree with him that he does everything right in his life? DISCRIMINATION.
I completely agree. Everything those people do in life has got something to do with being gay. They want to be treated equally but yet they do anyting in order to separate themselves from "the rest" all the time.
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Postby ArmyOfMe » Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:38 am

Madgefan wrote:Something else I realised to do with this topic is a lot of gay men seem to have a rather disresepctful attitude towards Lesbians. I'm not really sure why , I have quite a few lesbian friends and we have a great time together.
Yeah, that's another thing I don't really understand. I think it's kind of a stereotype (at least here) that gays and lesbians can't get along very well, and a lot of them don't get acquainted because of that.
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Postby Muzikritik » Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:39 am

What I find bizarre is that nobody - nobody - likes to be prejudiced or discriminated against for being who they are.

As humans, we seek understanding and tolerance of ourselves and our situations (not just sexuality, literally every facet of ourselves) and yet, we, as a race of people, are incredibly hypocritical.

We want people to accept us as being straight or gay or transgender or bisexual but then feel it OK to judge someone for being black or Asian or a lawyer or disabled. It is hard to be completely tolerant of everyone 100% of the time, I admit, but sometimes it feels like we barely even try, so involved we are in just ourselves... What we think, how we feel, how xyz situation affects us! Do we take the time to understand how others think, feel and are affected?

Discrimination of ones sexuality by someone who is also subject to sexuality discrimination is a pretty blatant form of hypocrisy but in the bigger picture, is only one example of it.

Why everyone doesn't chill the hell out, keep out of other peoples business and accept people as they are, is beyond me.

God save us all..
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Postby Shorty » Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:42 am

One of the things I dislike, as a bisexual is when gays and lesbians look down on me cos I'm bi :-? I actually had a lesbian (who was a friend of a friend) go off on me cos I like both, apparently I was "stealing" women away from her LOL :lol: She said she'd never date a bisexual girl, I was like "well you're missing out there" lol. It's like... us bisexuals are part of the community too! And a lot of lesbians don't like bi girls cos we've been with men and they find that gross... I get that they don't like men, but come on, seriously??? :-?
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Postby Graham76man » Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:57 pm

I think you are all mistaking predigests for power drives.
If you put someone down for whatever reason then you can feel stronger in yourself. Therefore you gain more power over that person. If you single out a person for being different from the rest it makes it easier to gain more power over them.
Power can also be gained by having a culture that might excluded others. For example is the title of the thread is technically predigest? Or does it imply a Power base. For the thread title implies that there "IS" a community of LGBT. Therefore it should be made up of the groups of LGBT, should it not? But we know (for example from Big Brother) that Michelle Visage - who is straight - is part of the LGBT Community. While at the same time she can attack a gay man for showing the LGBT up.
There is not something that would naturally make the different groupings come together to form a community. Only three of the groups have anything in common with each other. And that is for two of them they have sex with the same sex and the third group have sex with both sexes. The last group are either trying to be the other sex or have changed sex. But even in that group are sub-divisions. With sex changed persons still wanting to have sex with the sex they were and others switching to the other side and some with both.
Even in the LGBT movement their are some that don't except the different sub-divisions of it. But that doesn't mean they are homophobic to the other sections.

As I have pointed out before the LGBT thing is only a recent development in human cultural history developing out of an education culture that makes people question the status quo. It has of course not completed it's change and the whole movement is in a state of flux. It will be interesting to see how it develops in the years to come. But since each new generation will question what has gone before, the future members of the LGBT culture will either look on the present generation with either praise or hate. Maybe they will see LGBT members like women see Mrs Pankhurst today? Or not?
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