Mariah Carey Record Sales

Moderators: trebor, kingofskiffle, nympho

 

Postby MJDangerous » Fri Apr 29, 2005 11:09 am

brock wrote:Dam some of u people act like your 2 years olf :roll: ......No DUH the numbers are inflated anyone with a brain knows mariah hasnt sold 179 million records....
lol it's true. I have look to her sales and do estimations and I have found 136.2m albums sold (without TEOM). So I think that without any doubt her sales are between 130m and 140m.
25 June 2009, the day the Music died
User avatar
MJDangerous
Legend
 
Posts: 11969
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2004
Location: France

Postby nelson » Fri Apr 29, 2005 5:35 pm

MJDangerous wrote:lol it's true. I have look to her sales and do estimations and I have found 136.2m albums sold (without TEOM). So I think that without any doubt her sales are between 130m and 140m.
Can you please post the sales breakdown of every releases and each country? Both albums and singles. I am interested in reading everything about Mariah's sales. Thanks. :lol:
nelson
Legend
 
Posts: 18580
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004

Postby MJDangerous » Fri Apr 29, 2005 6:13 pm

nelson wrote:
MJDangerous wrote:lol it's true. I have look to her sales and do estimations and I have found 136.2m albums sold (without TEOM). So I think that without any doubt her sales are between 130m and 140m.
Can you please post the sales breakdown of every releases and each country? Both albums and singles. I am interested in reading everything about Mariah's sales. Thanks. :lol:
I only do estimations about albums sales.
It's in French, but I read english sales since months, it's at your time now :lol:
I do this one month ago...


Mariah Carey (1990) :
USA : 9.000.000
Canada : 700.000

Brésil : 425.000

Australie : 350.000
Nouvelle-Zélande : 90.000

Japon : 355.020
Singapour : 60.000
Corée : 310.000
Philippines : 25.000

UK : 300.000
Danemark : 44.000
Espagne : 100.000
France : 100.000
Grèce : 100.000
Pays-Bas : 100.000
Italie : 100.000
Norvège : 20.000
Suède : 80.000
Suisse : 25.000

Afrique du Sud : 100.000

Estimations Mondiales : 14.000.000


Emotions (1991) :
USA : 5.000.000
Canada : 400.000

Brésil : 170.000

Australie : 140.000
Nouvelle-Zélande : 15.000

Japon : 485.900
Singapour : 60.000
Corée : 300.000
Philippines : 25.000
Taiwan : 250.000

UK : 500.000
Danemark : 34.000
Espagne : 100.000
France : 150.000
Grèce : 100.000
Pays-Bas : 100.000
Italie : 100.000
Norvège : 20.000
Suède : 80.000
Suisse : 25.000

Afrique du Sud : 100.000

Estimations Mondiales : 10.000.000


MTV Unplugged (1992) :
USA : 3.000.000
Canada : 100.000

Brésil : 202.000

Australie : 210.000
Nouvelle-Zélande : 15.000

Japon : 191.030
Singapour : 60.000
Corée : 350.000
Philippines : 25.000
Taiwan : 250.000

UK : 200.000
Allemagne : 200.000
Danemark : 27.000
Espagne : 100.000
France : 200.000
Pays-Bas : 200.000
Italie : 100.000
Norvège : 20.000
Suède : 40.000
Suisse : 25.000

Afrique du Sud : 100.000

Estimations Mondiales : 7.500.000


Music Box (1993) :
USA : 9.000.000
Canada : 700.000

Brésil : 1.290.000
Argentine : 60.000

Australie : 980.000
Nouvelle-Zélande : 195.000

Japon : 1.589.270
Singapour : 240.000
Corée : 1.100.000
Philippines : 100.000
Taiwan : 1.000.000
Chine : 500.000
Indonésie : 275.000
Inde : #1

UK : 1.800.000
Allemagne : 1.200.000
Autriche : 80.000
Bulgarie : 420.000
Danemark : 235.000
Espagne : 500.000
Finlande : 47.340
France : 1.200.000
Grèce : 100.000
Pays-Bas : 500.000
Italie : 500.000
Norvège : 40.000
Suède : 240.000
Suisse : 200.000

Afrique du Sud : 100.000
Israël : 60.000

Estimations Mondiales : 26.500.000


Merry Christmas (1994) :
USA : 5.000.000
Canada : 100.000

Brésil : 30.000

Australie : 210.000
Nouvelle-Zélande : 60.000

Japon : 2.083.000
Singapour : 120.000
Corée : 523.503
Philippines : 50.000
Taiwan : 250.000

Europe : 1.000.000
- UK : 300.000
- Allemagne : 250.000
- Autriche : 20.000
- Danemark : 55.000
- Espagne : 100.000
- France : 50.000
- Pays-Bas : 80.000
- Italie : 220.000
- Norvège : 40.000
- Suède : 40.000
- Suisse : 25.000

Afrique du Sud : 100.000

Estimations Mondiales : 11.000.000


Daydream (1995) :
USA : 10.500.000
Canada : 700.000

Brésil : 114.000

Australie : 350.000
Nouvelle-Zélande : 255.000

Japon : 2.203.000
Singapour : 120.000
Corée : 560.000
Philippines : 100.000
Taiwan : 500.000
Chine : 710.000
Indonésie : 225.000
Hong-Kong : #1

Europe : 3.000.000
- UK : 1.100.000
- Allemagne : 650.000
- Autriche : 20.000
- Danemark : 68.000
- Espagne : 200.000
- France : 650.000
- Grèce : 100.000
- Pays-Bas : 80.000
- Italie : 200.000
- Norvège : 40.000
- Pologne : 50.000
- Suède : 40.000
- Suisse : 25.000
Portugal #1, Belgique #6, Irlande #6, Hongrie #13.

Afrique du Sud : 200.000
Israël : 30.000

Estimations Mondiales : 22.500.000


Butterfly (1997) :
USA : 4.000.000
Canada : 200.000

Brésil : 405.000
Argentine : 30.000

Australie : 140.000
Nouvelle-Zélande : 75.000

Japon : 1.083.890
Singapour : 80.000
Corée : 320.000
Philippines : 50.000
Taiwan : 100.000
Chine : 670.000
Hong-Kong : 100.000
Thaïlande : 10.000
Malaisie : 120.000

Europe : 1.000.000 (+)
- UK : 300.000
- Allemagne : 200.000
- Danemark : 22.000
- Espagne : 100.000
- France : 200.000
- Pays-Bas : 40.000
- Bulgarie : 141.500
- Italie : 100.000
- Pologne : 50.000
- Suède : 40.000
- Suisse : 25.000
- République Tchèque : 15.000

Afrique du Sud : 100.000

Estimations Mondiales : 10.000.000


#1’s (1998) :
USA : 5.500.000
Canada : 300.000

Brésil : 1.250.000
Argentine : 100.000
Venezuela : 15.000

Australie : 70.000
Nouvelle-Zélande : 30.000

Japon : 2.810.000
Singapour : 200.000
Corée : 300.000
Philippines : 100.000
Taiwan : 400.000
Chine : 610.000
Malaisie : 300.000

Europe : 2.000.000 (+)
- UK : 600.000
- Allemagne : 250.000
- Danemark : 58.000
- Espagne : 100.000
- France : 700.000
- Pays-Bas : 80.000
- Bulgarie : 175.000
- Italie : 300.000
- Suède : 80.000
- Suisse : 50.000
- République Tchèque : 10.000
- Autriche : 25.000
- Grèce : 50.000
- Norvège : 20.000

Afrique du Sud : 100.000
Israël : 20.000

Estimations Mondiales : 16.500.000


Rainbow (1999) :
USA : 4.200.000
Canada : 200.000

Brésil : 790.000
Argentine : 30.000

Australie : 35.000
Nouvelle-Zélande : 7.500

Japon : 570.010
Singapour : 40.000
Corée : 100.000
Philippines : 25.000
Taiwan : 100.000

Europe : 1.000.000 (+)
- UK : 200.000
- Allemagne : 300.000
- Danemark : 17.000
- Espagne : 100.000
- France : 445.000
- Pays-Bas : 40.000
- Bulgarie : 140.000
- Italie : 200.000
- Suède : 40.000
- Suisse : 25.000

Afrique du Sud : 50.000
Israël : 20.000

Estimations Mondiales : 9.500.000


Glitter (2001) :
USA : 800.000
Canada : 33.000

Brésil : 452.000

Japon : 262.000
Singapour : 40.000
Corée : 70.000
Philippines : 25.000
Taiwan : 75.000
Hong Kong, Chine #1

Europe : /
- UK : 40.000
- Allemagne : 50.000
- Danemark : 15.000
- Espagne : 50.000
- France : 120.000
- Italie : 50.000
- Suisse : 20.000

Afrique du Sud : 25.000

Estimations Mondiales : 3.500.000


Greatest Hits (2001) :
USA : 700.000

Brésil : 132.000

Australie : 35.000
Nouvelle-Zélande : 7.500

Japon : 217.890
Singapour : 40.000
Corée : 130.000
Philippines : 25.000
Taiwan : 100.000

Europe : /
- UK : 50.000
- Allemagne : 50.000
- Danemark : 20.000
- France : 100.000
- Portugal : 20.000

Afrique du Sud : 25.000

Estimations Mondiales : 2.500.000


Charmbracelet (2002) :
USA : 1.400.000
Canada : 50.000

Brésil : 129.000
Argentine : 3.000
Mexique : 60.000

Japon : 245.000
Singapour : 20.000
Corée : 100.000
Chine : 500.000
Indonésie : 26.000
Taiwan : 100.000
Thailande : 34.000
Malaisie : 3 semaines #1

Europe : /
- UK : 100.000
- Allemagne : 50.000
- Espagne : 50.000
- France : 250.000
- Italie : 50.000
- Suède : 20.000
- Suisse : 40.000
- Portugal : 10.000
- Grèce : 65.000

Afrique du Sud : 50.000

Estimations Mondiales : 4.000.000


The Remixes (2003) :
USA : 200.000

Brésil : 29.000

Japon : 6.511
Corée : 15.000

Europe : /
- UK : 30.000

Estimations Mondiales : 600.000


Ventes totales mondiales : 136.200.000 albums vendus.
25 June 2009, the day the Music died
User avatar
MJDangerous
Legend
 
Posts: 11969
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2004
Location: France

Postby nelson » Fri Apr 29, 2005 6:28 pm

Did you just copy from the internet?
I read the same from other place such as magaka's one and also in this thread's first page. :D
Opinion only, I think her sales at around 109 million, based on certifications only and a little from official source.
12 + 8 + 5 + 23 + 10 + 19 + 8 + 13 + 6 + 2 + 1 + 2 = 109 million

Source:
Mariah Carey, Emotions, Unplugged, Music Box, Merry Christmas were taken from Billboard.
Daydream, from Sony Japanese website.

Butterfly, #1's, Rainbow, Glitter, GH, Charmbracelet, from certifications only.

Too low? this answer is predictable.
nelson
Legend
 
Posts: 18580
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004

Postby MJDangerous » Fri Apr 29, 2005 6:36 pm

nelson wrote:Did you just copy from the internet?
I read the same from other place such as magaka's one and also in this thread's first page. :D
Opinion only, I think her sales at around 109 million, based on certifications only and a little from official source.
12 + 8 + 5 + 23 + 10 + 19 + 8 + 13 + 6 + 2 + 1 + 2 = 109 million

Source:
Mariah Carey, Emotions, Unplugged, Music Box, Merry Christmas were taken from Billboard.
Daydream, from Sony Japanese website.
Butterfly, #1's, Rainbow, Glitter, GH, Charmbracelet, from certifications only.

Too low? this answer is predictable.
It's not too low, it's a right number... for what you speak about.
Nelson, your work is great, I read you and others since months and I appreciat what you do. But you do a confusion between many things : Official numbers/Real numbers/Certifications numbers.
You can not take numbers of certifications in selected countries and speak about "Worldwide sales" like you do. They are two totally different things.

And no I don't copy from internet. I do estimations with relations between countries with for start information numbers who are avalaible. My numbers are different from Mangaka's numbers, like butterfly, important difference between 10m and 12.5m !
25 June 2009, the day the Music died
User avatar
MJDangerous
Legend
 
Posts: 11969
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2004
Location: France

Postby nelson » Fri Apr 29, 2005 6:43 pm

MJDangerous wrote:You can not take numbers of certifications in selected countries and speak about "Worldwide sales" like you do. They are two totally different things.
I know, sometimes I am too lazy to write "limted certifications only" or forget to write. I will notice it next time.
nelson
Legend
 
Posts: 18580
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004

Postby seattleboy » Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:29 am

Her confirmed sales figures are without any updated certifications or anything from the RIAA etc.

Mariah Carey - 12 million
Emotions - 8 million
Unplugged - 7 million (Sony Japan)
Music Box - 24 million
Merry Christmas - 11 million (Sony Japan)
Daydream - 19 million (It's Good To Be Mariah Carey)
Butterfly - 8.4 million (Mariah Carey Retrospective)
Ones - 12.6 million (Mariah Carey Retrospective)
Rainbow - 6.7 million (Mariah Carey Retrospective)
Glitter - 2 million
Greatest Hits - N/A
Charmbracelet - 3 million (Her site said so back in 2003)
Remixes - N/A
--------------------------------------------------
Nelson Lau, Sony Music Japan said "Unplugged" sold 7 million worldwide, the site you gave me LOL.

Like I said before "Music Box" sold 28 million copies worldwide to date and here is proof. Read under 1993.

Image

I'm using label market information to base my sales figures, people here are making numbers out of their a$$. I'll give you credit for using certifications but it seems you underestimate certain artists sales in other countries w/o certifications because you don't like them. Considering this is a chart site, not a fan site people should be fair to all artists.
Last edited by seattleboy on Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
seattleboy
Manager
 
Posts: 4289
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2004
Location: US

Postby AutomaticBR » Sat Apr 30, 2005 6:16 am

seattleboy wrote:Glitter - 2 million
--------------------------------------------------
USA 1,000,000 + Japan 500,000 + Brasil 452,000 (all shipments) :roll:

Also, I don't like to blindly trust in those infos that record company stats like "oh, that album sold this amount", I prefer to do a research based on that, certifications and the popularity of the artist in some areas to have an idea of the worldwide shipments.

If we "blindly trust" what record companies said, then how can we trust when Universal says that Mariah sold 150M albums worldwide and that makes her the best-selling bla bla bla ever, while Sony says that is Celine the best-selling bla bla bla with 170M albums? :lol:
User avatar
AutomaticBR
Legend
 
Posts: 12795
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004
Location: Brasil

Postby nelson » Sat Apr 30, 2005 12:04 pm

seattleboy wrote:Unplugged - 7 million (Sony Japan)

Butterfly - 8.4 million (Mariah Carey Retrospective)
Ones - 12.6 million (Mariah Carey Retrospective)
Rainbow - 6.7 million (Mariah Carey Retrospective)
--------------------------------------------------
Nelson Lau, Sony Music Japan said "Unplugged" sold 7 million worldwide, the site you gave me LOL.
Well, Song Japan really said that 7 million, but based on certifications only, it still far away to reach 7 million, so I refused to use Sony Japan's data. And it seemed Song Japan exaggerated Unplugged's sales.

And, what is "Mariah Carey Retrospective" mean? Is it based on certifications?

Are you from Classic Whitney forum? What is your name at there? How do you know my name "Lau"? lol

seattleboy wrote:Like I said before "Music Box" sold 28 million copies worldwide to date and here is proof. Read under 1993.
Music Box, too, it still far away to reach 28 million based on certificatons only, and hence I refused to accept it. Based on certifications only, I got 21 million. So I accept 23 million rather than 28 million. And without missing major countries.

seattleboy wrote:I'm using label market information to base my sales figures, people here are making numbers out of their a$$. I'll give you credit for using certifications but it seems you underestimate certain artists sales in other countries w/o certifications because you don't like them. Considering this is a chart site, not a fan site people should be fair to all artists.
Do you talk about me?
"Underestimate certain artists sales"? I only used certifications, and it's correct number, did I post Mariah's sales lower possible? Did I take off some countries's sales? Did I deduct her certifications? Including Brail about Mariah's sales is already biased, as I only have Mariah's and Madonna's and Michael Jackson's sales in Brazil and don't know other artists's sales in Brazil.
I don't like Mariah? If I don't like her, I will refuse to read anything about Mariah, how can I have plenty of sales info about her?
I'm fair to everyone, I'm not biased if you re-read my every post.
Last edited by nelson on Sat Apr 30, 2005 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
nelson
Legend
 
Posts: 18580
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004

Postby mangaka » Sat Apr 30, 2005 12:10 pm

My estinate figures with certifications and sales around the world matches very well with MJDangerous. MWith some substantial differences: mine's are 5M higher. I don't think her sales are TOO HIGH (170M) but neither TOO LOW (109-120M). I think the 141M is the most accurate (without TEOM). Behind CELINE'S 155M and MADONNA's 173M.

The most notable difference between your estimates are mine's are BUTTERFLY numbers (10M vs. 12.5M). I think mine's is the approximated figure because you wrote BUTTERFLY's RIA certification as 4xP and it's 5xP (that makes 11M). And I noted you used Japan Oricon sales, but I use the RIAJ numbers, sales + shipments + clubs, that are notable higher. The most notable example is #1'S 2.8M Oricon sales vs. 3.6M sales+shipment figures (there was press releases all over the world sayin' the 3.6M's sold for #1's made it the Best Selling Foreign Album of All-Time in Japan -- JANET'S All For You also made some 3.5M making a tie with #1'S).

So I think your figures are a liiiiiitle low, some +6M would be perfect.

Also, there are possibilities that the numbers RIGT NOW are a liiiiiiitle higher than mine's too, as MUSIC BOX seems to having sold a little more than 27M, some 28M after 11 years of being released... and "Rainbow" RIA cert. needs to be revisited and updated (sold 3M in Soundscan and some 450k in BMG Club + Columbia House sales) and THE REMIXES is elegible for GOLD certification (210.000 sold, Gold with 250k as it's a Double album).
User avatar
mangaka
Groupie
 
Posts: 164
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004
Location: Spain

Postby nelson » Sat Apr 30, 2005 12:17 pm

mangaka wrote:JANET'S All For You also made some 3.5M making a tie with #1'S).
Are you kidding, All For You sold 3.5 million? I am dumbfound. All For You sold 454,780, CD+DVD sold 19,800, it's too far to reach 3.5 million shipment. You better research before you post shit. :lol:
nelson
Legend
 
Posts: 18580
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004

Postby mangaka » Sat Apr 30, 2005 12:22 pm

nelson wrote:
mangaka wrote:JANET'S All For You also made some 3.5M making a tie with #1'S).
Are you kidding, All For You sold 3.5 million? I am dumbfound. All For You sold 454,780, CD+DVD sold 19,800, it's too far to reach 3.5 million shipment. You better research before you post shit. :lol:
That's what I read, and if I remember correctly, it was in Dotmusic and in one of Hanboo's posts... I don't have the press release (like in Mariah's case) but I'm searching it on purpose...
User avatar
mangaka
Groupie
 
Posts: 164
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004
Location: Spain

Postby mangaka » Sat Apr 30, 2005 12:36 pm

While searching that for Miss Jackson (I'm sure I read it in Dotmusic and it was from some sort of news or something... or maybe it was Damita Jo's lambs?... Some Damita fans help?), but I found that from NMPA INTERNATIONAL SURVEY:

In line with the expansion of foreign
retailers, shipments of imported
albums have also increased. In the first
six months of 1995, imports accounted
for 25% of the CD market as a whole.


Imports were in 1995 25% of the whole CD market, that's huge and that explains the difference from Oricon sales figures and the shipments ones.... I suppose that right now, the shipments numbers have dicreased a lot, like in USA (where I read in other news - that's certain - that the % was similar from Japan in the mid 90's)....
User avatar
mangaka
Groupie
 
Posts: 164
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004
Location: Spain

Postby mangaka » Sat Apr 30, 2005 12:50 pm

I've got MARIAH's press releases and news, but not JANET's. I don't follow Janet's sales so maybe what I said was wrong, but I certeanly read it somewhere, maybe they were wrong.

But here are Mariah's press releases:

1. BILLBOARD; 1/23/1999; MCCLURE, STEVE
"MARIAH CAREY'S "#1'S" has become Japan's all-time top-selling foreign album, according to Sony Music Entertainment (Japan). The title has sold 3.25 million copies (including imports) since its Nov. 18 release in the territory, the label says. The record for best-selling foreign album was previously held by the soundtrack to "The Bodyguard," which has sold 2.8 million units in Japan."

for example.

Regarding Janet, I will confide in you, I don't know Oricon sales, but if you say (and I'm sure you are right) it sold less 500k in Oricon, then I agree the 3.5M are bullshit.
User avatar
mangaka
Groupie
 
Posts: 164
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004
Location: Spain

Postby seattleboy » Sat Apr 30, 2005 8:24 pm

The Bodyguard
[17,000,000] US
[1,000,000] Canada
[2,100,000] England
[1,700,000] Germany
[1,000,000] France
[2,500,000] Japan
[350,000] Australia
[25,650,000] Racking Up

"The Bodyguard" sold 8.65 million in Canada, England, Germany, France, Japan and Australia.
"The Bodyguard" officially sold 20 million internationally with 8.95 million in the countries listed above.

Music Box
[10,000,000] US
[700,000] Canada
[1,500,000] England
[1,000,000] Germany
[1,300,000] France
[2,300,000] Japan
[770,000] Australia
[17,570,000] Racking Up

"Music Box" sold 7.57 million in Canada, England, Germany, France, Japan and Australia.
"Music Box" at least sold 27 million copies worldwide, if it sold over 85% of what "The Bodyguard" sold in the same key countries.
User avatar
seattleboy
Manager
 
Posts: 4289
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2004
Location: US

Postby seattleboy » Sat Apr 30, 2005 8:34 pm

Butterfly - 8.4 million (Mariah Carey Retrospective)
Ones - 12.6 million (Mariah Carey Retrospective)
Rainbow - 6.7 million (Mariah Carey Retrospective)
--------------------------------------------------
Well, Song Japan really said that 7 million, but based on certifications only, it still far away to reach 7 million, so I refused to use Sony Japan's data. And it seemed Song Japan exaggerated Unplugged's sales.

And, what is "Mariah Carey Retrospective" mean? Is it based on certifications?
It was a promotional video from Def Jam, using her first year sales for all her albums, they were using her RIAA stats in the first year for all her albums, that's how I knew it was first year sales.

They had "Butterfly" at 8.4 million worldwide with 3 million in the US.

They had "Ones" at 12.6 million worldwide with 4 million in the US.

Are you from Classic Whitney forum? What is your name at there? How do you know my name "Lau"? lol
I view the message board, but I don't post.
User avatar
seattleboy
Manager
 
Posts: 4289
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2004
Location: US

Postby mangaka » Sat Apr 30, 2005 8:42 pm

seattleboy wrote:The Bodyguard
[17,000,000] US
[1,000,000] Canada
[2,100,000] England
[1,700,000] Germany
[1,000,000] France
[2,500,000] Japan
[350,000] Australia
[25,650,000] Racking Up

"The Bodyguard" sold 8.65 million in Canada, England, Germany, France, Japan and Australia.
"The Bodyguard" officially sold 20 million internationally with 8.95 million in the countries listed above.
Why THE BODYGUARD did so bad (relatively speaking) in Australia?
User avatar
mangaka
Groupie
 
Posts: 164
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004
Location: Spain

Postby nelson » Sun May 01, 2005 6:53 am

seattleboy wrote:"Music Box" sold 7.57 million in Canada, England, Germany, France, Japan and Australia.
"Music Box" at least sold 27 million copies worldwide, if it sold over 85% of what "The Bodyguard" sold in the same key countries.
Well, I always don't agree with your calculation, you always used ratio to calculate sales which is not reliable, you must know each release has different sales, this time sells well doesn't mean next time will sell well too, this time it's popular doesn't mean next time popular too, using your estimation, this time sell that amount then next time it would sell the same ratio which to me is ridiculous. Sales is not maths, you can't use formula to get the sales, which is I strongly disagree your point.
nelson
Legend
 
Posts: 18580
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004

Postby nelson » Sun May 01, 2005 7:02 am

mangaka wrote:Why THE BODYGUARD did so bad (relatively speaking) in Australia?
Well, my classmate said Whitney is too noisy to perform "I will always love you" when she sings "and I...". but ironically, single "I Will Always Love You" was the best seller of all time with 4x platinum (280,000). Maybe because people had single already and didn't buy the same song twice for an album, and other singles from bodyguard were not attractive to them, only "IWALY" was enough, so major Australian people refused to buy the bodyguard album, I think. :lol:
And you can see "Jagged Little Pill", "Come On Over" sold 1 million, to know what's the music trend or taste of Australian.
nelson
Legend
 
Posts: 18580
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004

Postby seattleboy » Sun May 01, 2005 6:02 pm

nelson wrote:
seattleboy wrote:"Music Box" sold 7.57 million in Canada, England, Germany, France, Japan and Australia.
"Music Box" at least sold 27 million copies worldwide, if it sold over 85% of what "The Bodyguard" sold in the same key countries.
Well, I always don't agree with your calculation, you always used ratio to calculate sales which is not reliable, you must know each release has different sales, this time sells well doesn't mean next time will sell well too, this time it's popular doesn't mean next time popular too, using your estimation, this time sell that amount then next time it would sell the same ratio which to me is ridiculous. Sales is not maths, you can't use formula to get the sales, which is I strongly disagree your point.
We are talking about shipments, labels ship albums based on something, which is market information. Which is what I use.

There are key markets such as Brazil and Mexico for Latin America, which make up 78.5% of the total album sales in Latin America. So if an album sold 500k in Mexico and 750k in Brazil = (1.25m / 0.785 x 100), I would say the album sold 1.6 million in all of Latin America.

Japan, Korea, Taiwan and Phillipines which make up for 86% of the total sales in Asia.

This is basing the sales on something not just saying albums don't sell in the other countries w/o certification sites (that are known to us). In reality labels do ship albums in places like Argentina, why do you think people like Mariah Carey and Michael Jackson etc. have a version of their official site for people of Argentina.

There are obviously people buying their records over there. I don't think it's fair to discount sales in regions like Argentina because they don't have certifications we can find.

Anyways, I compared the "Bodyguard" to "Music Box" because they sold alot in the same regions.

If "Music Box" didn't sell very close to 30 million then Celine's "Falling Into You" & "Let's Talk About Love" didn't as well especially "Falling Into You".
User avatar
seattleboy
Manager
 
Posts: 4289
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2004
Location: US

Postby nelson » Sun May 01, 2005 6:25 pm

seattleboy wrote:There are key markets such as Brazil and Mexico for Latin America, which make up 78.5% of the total album sales in Latin America. So if an album sold 500k in Mexico and 750k in Brazil = (1.25m / 0.785 x 100), I would say the album sold 1.6 million in all of Latin America.

There are obviously people buying their records over there. I don't think it's fair to discount sales in regions like Argentina because they don't have certifications we can find.
At the end, your numbers are all estimation rather than real fact.
And for not counting Argentina, since the market is so small, only few albums sold half a million, when we talk about shipment of Mariah, we usually use a million as a unit, amd sales in Argentina is so small that can't even change the final result of Mariah's shipment. That's why I don't care other small market when they are not important to final shipment.

Well, you can say shipment outside US of the bodyguard is quite close to Music box, I agree, the bodyguard is 20 million and Music box is 13.5 million, which is 6.5 million difference.

Well, Celine's certifications is really about 23 million for Let's talk about love and 22 million for falling into you, I even think there's big sales in Brazil and Mexico and Asia too that boost up final shipments.

And Mariah's Music Box is already counted all major countries.
US - 10 million
Japan - 1.6 million (for fair, use Oricon)
Asia - 1.8 million (from Billboard, 1.6 million when Taiwan was 320,000, it finally shipped 500,000 in Taiwan)
Canada - 700,000
Brazil - 1.3 million
Mexico - 150,000
Argentina - 60,000
Australia - 770,000
New Zealand - 75,000
Africa - 100,000
UK - 1.5 million
France - 1.2 million
Germany - 1 million
Italy - 500,000
Finland - 40,960
Norway - 40,000
Spain - 400,000
Netherlands - 480,000
Switzerland - 200,000
Sweden - 100,000
Total: 22 million (22.7 million for Japan imports)
Last edited by nelson on Sun May 01, 2005 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
nelson
Legend
 
Posts: 18580
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004

Postby seattleboy » Sun May 01, 2005 6:42 pm

Nelson, you seem to agree that "Falling Into You" sold 30 million in previous threads, but you won't believe "Music Box" even sold 24 million.

"Falling Into You" and "Music Box" sold similar in Europe, about 7 million. "Music Box" definitely outsold "Falling Into You" in Asia, "MB" sold 3 million in Japan and Korea alone, where "FIY" only sold half of that in those two places. I doubt Celine outsold Mariah in Latin America, her French heritage means nothing there. Celine outsold Mariah by 2 million in Canada Australia and America only. Mariah sold a few million more than Celine in Asia and Latin America, how is "Falling Into You" 30 million and "Music Box" is not even 24 million. LOL
User avatar
seattleboy
Manager
 
Posts: 4289
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2004
Location: US

Postby seattleboy » Sun May 01, 2005 7:00 pm

nelson wrote:
seattleboy wrote:There are key markets such as Brazil and Mexico for Latin America, which make up 78.5% of the total album sales in Latin America. So if an album sold 500k in Mexico and 750k in Brazil = (1.25m / 0.785 x 100), I would say the album sold 1.6 million in all of Latin America.

There are obviously people buying their records over there. I don't think it's fair to discount sales in regions like Argentina because they don't have certifications we can find.
At the end, your numbers are all estimation rather than real fact.
And for not counting Argentina, since the market is so small, only few albums sold half a million, when we talk about shipment of Mariah, we usually use a million as a unit, amd sales in Argentina is so small that can't even change the final result of Mariah's shipment. That's why I don't care other small market when they are not important to final shipment.
Well Argentina is just an example, if you add up alot of small markets for "Music Box" it is probably another million added to her total shipment.

Yeah my way of calculating sales is an estimate, but your way excludes ALOT of sales for albums.

If you remember I said Usher's "Confessions" sold 12 million worldwide a while ago, and days later a press release had confirmed it sold 12 million worldwide as well.

I'm not saying my sales calculations are any better than yours, but it seems biased when you say an album like "The Bodyguard" sold 37M because of alot of sales information but then another album like "Oops I Did It Again" you say sold 15M with little sales information. I think you should just compare the albums in the same regions (which would mean albums with confirmed figures would be lower because of pure certifications) or use label market information so it doesn't seem like you favor other artists over another.
User avatar
seattleboy
Manager
 
Posts: 4289
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2004
Location: US

Postby nelson » Sun May 01, 2005 7:25 pm

seattleboy wrote:Nelson, you seem to agree that "Falling Into You" sold 30 million in previous threads, but you won't believe "Music Box" even sold 24 million.

"Falling Into You" and "Music Box" sold similar in Europe, about 7 million. "Music Box" definitely outsold "Falling Into You" in Asia, "MB" sold 3 million in Japan and Korea alone, where "FIY" only sold half of that in those two places. I doubt Celine outsold Mariah in Latin America, her French heritage means nothing there. Celine outsold Mariah by 2 million in Canada Australia and America only. Mariah sold a few million more than Celine in Asia and Latin America, how is "Falling Into You" 30 million and "Music Box" is not even 24 million. LOL
To be honest, I accept Falling Into you shipped 27 million and Let's Talk About Love shipped 28 million, those 30 million are taken from Billboard, and to the guys who used to build up worldwide best selling albums based on news, rumours, etc.

Certification in Europe in selected countries
Music Box is 5.46 million. (est. 7 million)
Falling Into You is 5.28 million. (7 million, 1.72 million)
Let's talk about love is 7.24 million. (9 million, 1.76 million)

Well, I think the sales come from US, Falling into you not only shipped 11 million if you add Soundscan + BMG Music sales, and it should be 13 million. At that time, Mariah's husband was Sony CEO, so he tried to delete the CD when Falling into you still sold well in Billboard 200 in 1996, if you read Billboard chart bulletin, you will know what's happened there. It's because her wife mariah is Sony's top female artist at that time.
Music Box - 7 million + 735,000 = 7.7 million
10 million shipped - 7.7 million sold = 2.3 million still in the store or other Music club sales (roughly)
Falling Into You - 10.63 million + 987,000 = 11.617 million
11 million shipped - 11.617 million sold = -617,000
Hence, Falling into you should be 2 million more shipped in the store.

So
Music Box - 10 m US + 7 m EU + 0.7 m Canada + 1.2 m Brazil + 0.77 m Australia + 2.3 m Japan + 0.6 m Korea + 0.5 m Taiwan = 23.07 million
Falling - 13 m US + 7 m EU + 1.5 m Canada + X m Brazil + 0.84 m Australia + 1 m Japan + X m Korea + X m Taiwan = 23.34 million (this sales not including Brazil, Korea, Taiwan)
so Falling into you already surpassed Music Box.
Last edited by nelson on Sun May 01, 2005 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
nelson
Legend
 
Posts: 18580
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004

Postby nelson » Sun May 01, 2005 7:28 pm

seattleboy wrote:I'm not saying my sales calculations are any better than yours, but it seems biased when you say an album like "The Bodyguard" sold 37M because of alot of sales information but then another album like "Oops I Did It Again" you say sold 15M with little sales information. I think you should just compare the albums in the same regions (which would mean albums with confirmed figures would be lower because of pure certifications) or use label market information so it doesn't seem like you favor other artists over another.
I did, I did for all the countries, I have my excel list all countries sales for every artist, in bodyguard case, it's exceptional, because I have more information available, so I gave to you to have other way to view this sales. I also post the bodyguard sales is 31? or whatever in selected countries, and on the other side, I gave a list from Billboard's sales statistics, I didn't used 37 million of bodyguard compared to 15 millio for Oops!... I still used 31 million of bodyguard compared to other albums shipments.
nelson
Legend
 
Posts: 18580
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004

Return to Chart Analysis