UK Politics: how will you be voting in the upcoming General Election?

[heppolo]

The EU better get that money

UK might be their most commercially successful release

[menime123]

I give up. You can’t make this up. MPs keep telling the PM er deal was terrible and they were better options. They take control and vote against every alternative they’ve all banged on about for the last few months. We leave in 11 days with no way forward other than the default no deal scenario.

[Kpop]

Indeed: the myth promoted by charlatens like Johnson and Rees-Mogg is that the UK does not need to pay the EU the settlement bill if there is no deal.


Talking about Mogg, here he is being destroyed on Newsnight for his U-turn on slavery


https://www.indy100.com/article/brex...y-deal-8845256

Flip-flop Mogg

[heppolo]

JRM is just serving his interests, pure and simple.

[menime123]

JRM is someone who will never become more than just a backbencher.

[beredy]

I give up. You can’t make this up. MPs keep telling the PM er deal was terrible and they were better options. They take control and vote against every alternative they’ve all banged on about for the last few months. We leave in 11 days with no way forward other than the default no deal scenario.

And while UK is making fools out of themselves with these votes and saying no to ALL possible solutions and finally showing that it's their own failure of leadership and democracy that got them where they are now, jio is nowhere to be found to make it seem like this is all being set up by the evil EU who is somehow forcing UK to do all this.

[heppolo]

JRM is someone who will never become more than just a backbencher.

who knows, maybe Tories are devoid of any strong characters willing to take the leadership (bar BoJo and Gove) at this point

[menime123]

You could easily argue that if the EU had been willing to re-negotiate the deal and listen to why MPs can’t back it, we wouldn’t be in this mess either... and this could have happened months ago. But the EU have been quite resolute that it is this deal - and only this deal - that they support.

[menime123]

who knows, maybe Tories are devoid of any strong characters willing to take the leadership (bar BoJo and Gove) at this point

Raab I think stands a shot, as does Javid.

[beredy]

You could easily argue that if the EU had been willing to re-negotiate the deal and listen to why MPs can’t back it, we wouldn’t be in this mess either... and this could have happened months ago. But the EU have been quite resolute that it is this deal - and only this deal - that they support.

But EU has been clear on the issue for months. And UK acted like they could get it the other way and they realize they wasted all this time to try and make the deal work or prepare for a no deal exit. Now they scramble for anything and there's no time for anything anymore.

[menime123]

But EU has been clear on the issue for months. And UK acted like they could get it the other way and they realize they wasted all this time to try and make the deal work or prepare for a no deal exit. Now they scramble for anything and there's no time for anything anymore.

I think there is blame on both sides. I don’t defend anyone - the entire thing is a complete mess. If anyone else decides to leave the EU, they better have a clear majority because otherwise nothing happens.

I really do think we are about to exit without a deal at all.

[Wayne]

A "no deal" serves to impact both the UK and the EU substantially - the value of UK imports from the EU is £341 billion, the value of UK exports to the EU is £274 billion.

What I don't understand is why MPs are professing profound shock or apportioning blame - it is the fault of Parliament as a collective that a meaningful compromise hasn't been agreed.

[beredy]

What I don't understand is why MPs are professing profound shock or apportioning blame - it is the fault of Parliament as a collective that a meaningful compromise hasn't been agreed.

Bingo!

[BeeBoy]

A "no deal" serves to impact both the UK and the EU substantially - the value of UK imports from the EU is £341 billion, the value of UK exports to the EU is £274 billion.

While I agree that it affects both sides, I stillt think the UK will have it worse. They will still need most of the import and have to pay more for it. EU countries on the other hand most likely have the possibilities to import most of the stuff from other EU members, which would lead to a significant decrease in UK's export money.

[jio]

A "no deal" serves to impact both the UK and the EU substantially - the value of UK imports from the EU is £341 billion, the value of UK exports to the EU is £274 billion.

What I don't understand is why MPs are professing profound shock or apportioning blame - it is the fault of Parliament as a collective that a meaningful compromise hasn't been agreed.

The parliament was not the one who negotiated

[Wayne]

The parliament was not the one who negotiated

May negotiated everything that was reasonably possible given the terms of the separation - parliament voted it down and then never united to vote for a suitable alternative.

I reiterate - this is a failure of parliament.

[jio]

The EU and the UK negotiated a deal that was turned down by the parliament (well within its rights). Then there was a failure to re-negotiate for whatever reason. The parliament was presented 4 times with the same deal and it stayed faithful to its original decision. The failure was on the negotiating sides, not on parliament.

[jio]

While I agree that it affects both sides, I stillt think the UK will have it worse. They will still need most of the import and have to pay more for it. EU countries on the other hand most likely have the possibilities to import most of the stuff from other EU members, which would lead to a significant decrease in UK's export money.

Totally true if you just consider the economics. But this goes far beyond the economics and the economics don't tell the full picture. I insist the UK is not the weak part in this

[Wayne]

The EU and the UK negotiated a deal that was turned down by the parliament (well within its rights). Then there was a failure to re-negotiate for whatever reason. The parliament was presented 4 times with the same deal and it stayed faithful to its original decision. The failure was on the negotiating sides, not on parliament.

Likewise, the EU stayed true to its bargaining position from the outset, and offered little beyond what was originally negotiated - which parliament fully understood to be the case, and which May made very clear. In proposing their own options in recent days, parliament still hasn’t been able to unite. This is parliament’s failure.

I question whether the terms of the withdrawal were a matter for parliament to begin with, but I digress.

[Wayne]

Totally true if you just consider the economics. But this goes far beyond the economics and the economics don't tell the full picture. I insist the UK is not the weak part in this

I agree - a successfully exit for the EU doesn’t paint a rosy picture for the future or the EU.

Though a successful exit couldn’t be further from the reality at the moment...

[jio]

I agree - a successfully exit for the EU doesn’t paint a rosy picture for the future or the EU.

Though a successful exit couldn’t be further from the reality at the moment...

I think it was always a given that even the most successful of Brexits would bring about serious disruptions at first.

[jio]

Likewise, the EU stayed true to its bargaining position from the outset, and offered little beyond what was originally negotiated - which parliament fully understood to be the case, and which May made very clear. In proposing their own options in recent days, parliament still hasn’t been able to unite. This is parliament’s failure.

I question whether the terms of the withdrawal were a matter for parliament to begin with, but I digress.

Well in a democracy parliaments have a say in most serious matters and Brexit is dead-serious since it affects British sovereignty so much so I think that of course parliament should have the final say (although I strongly disagree with parliament taking over the negotiations-that's a job for the executive). What annoys me is that usually it is in authoritarian countries (such as Russia or arabic states) that parliament is expected to simply approve whatever the executive proposes, yet here we are in all democratic EU where basically it is expected the exact same from parliaments when it comes to EU policy- not to question or change anything and to basically forgo their role in favor of the executive and that's dangerous.

[Rihab]

It's obviously time for a GE, this current parliament will never agree on anything again. But I guess Theresa is still in denial, this woman is willing to rip her own country apart to hold on to 'power'.

[menime123]

It's obviously time for a GE, this current parliament will never agree on anything again. But I guess Theresa is still in denial, this woman is willing to rip her own country apart to hold on to 'power'.

A GE is the worst thing that could happen now, second only to a referendum. No party will win a GE, the Tories would probably still have the most seats but would anyone throw their lot in with them now to allow them to form a government? If not, would they throw their lot in with Labour and form a government that way? Not even Corbyn wants to deal with Brexit.

No, a GE would be completely messy. We must get out of the EU and MPs must begin building bridges with the people again. Never have I known Parliament to be so divided and fail to serve the British public - because that’s what this boils down to.

Politics needs a shake up but not until Brexit is sorted. I really think Change UK could end up a big player after we get through all this.

[Rihab]

There's literally nothing to lose from a GE, do you seriously believe things could get worse?

In the best case scenario, a snap election would result in a clear majority for one of the two major parties. In the most realistic scenario, Labour would be able to form a coalition with either Lib Dems or SNP. And in the worst case scenario, the mess of the past few months would just continue.