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Thread: Gender Identity & The Gender Spectrum

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    by » Tue February 2nd, 2016, 21:20

    It has come to my attention, that we don't seem to have a thread about this (please let me know if we do). I think this is something that we should be much more aware of; and I'd therefore like to invite you to discuss your thoughts and experiences.

    Please note the following:
    * this is a potentially controversial topic that may prove divisive in opinion. I therefore ask you to be respectful of other's opinions, and refrain from derogatory or deliberately provocative comments. It would be a shame to lock this thread because we couldn't sustain a mature discussion.
    * Gender identity is NOT the same thing as your sexuality. You can read more about what it is below. You may also wish to discuss or challenge the definition I have provided below. Gender Identity is not necessarily a simple concept, and people may differ in their understanding and perception of what is.

    It is important to note that gender identity, biological sex, and sexual orientation are separate and that you cannot assume how someone identifies in one category based on how they identify in another category.
    Source.

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    by » Tue February 2nd, 2016, 21:21

    Gender Identity?

    For many people, the terms “gender” and “sex” are used interchangeably, and thus incorrectly. This idea has become so common, particularly in western societies, that it is rarely questioned. We are born, assigned a sex, and sent out into the world. For many people, this is cause for little, if any dissonance. Yet biological sex and gender are different; gender is not inherently nor solely connected to one’s physical anatomy.

    Biological Gender (sex) includes physical attributes such as external genitalia, sex chromosomes, gonads, sex hormones, and internal reproductive structures. At birth, it is used to assign sex, that is, to identify individuals as male or female. Gender on the other hand is far more complicated. It is the complex interrelationship between an individual’s sex (gender biology), one’s internal sense of self as male, female, both or neither (gender identity) as well as one’s outward presentations and behaviors (gender expression) related to that perception, including their gender role. Together, the intersection of these three dimensions produces one’s authentic sense of gender, both in how people experience their own gender as well as how others perceive it.

    The Gender Spectrum?

    Western culture has come to view gender as a binary concept, with two rigidly fixed options: male or female, both grounded in a person’s physical anatomy. When a child is born, a quick glance between the legs determines the gender label that the child will carry for life. But even if gender is to be restricted to basic biology, a binary concept still fails to capture the rich variation that exists. Rather than just two distinct boxes, biological gender occurs across a continuum of possibilities. This spectrum of anatomical variations by itself should be enough to disregard the simplistic notions of a binary gender system.

    But beyond anatomy, there are multiple domains defining gender. In turn, these domains can be independently characterized across a range of possibilities. Instead of the static, binary model produced through a solely physical understanding of gender, a far richer tapestry of biology, gender expression, and gender identity intersect in a multidimensional array of possibilities. Quite simply, the gender spectrum represents a more nuanced, and ultimately truly authentic model of human gender.

    Read more here.

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    by » Tue February 2nd, 2016, 21:33

    Interesting topic, Dan!
    I obviously think that this conforming to gender roles has always been a whole lotta bs that has only created discrimination and double standards, especially for women.

    Can't say much more now, I'll wait for other people replies to get more into details.

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    by » Mon February 15th, 2016, 22:27

    So is anyone gonna kick the debate off?

    Does anyone have any experiences they'd like to share?

    Don't be shy.

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    by » Mon February 15th, 2016, 22:31

    Most people (everyone except peasants) are aware of this now.
    What's there to say, when everything has been said already.

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    by » Mon February 15th, 2016, 22:34

    I was having a conversation with a friend of mine last night and she started telling me how she is curious to get physical with girls, but only the feminine ones, and I was like "there's no such thing like "feminine" or "masculine" IMO"
    It's all just a matter of gender and the social structures reflecting in our conceptions of feminine and masculine in the end. If that's the case, there are days when I feel more feminine and days when I feel more masculine and I feel no shame about it.
    I also hate how people often identify "feminine" gays as bottoms and vice versa, I know quite a few cases that prove the opposite (if identifying 100% with a role in sex is a thing at all). Same goes for lesbians.

    I impatiently wait for the day when we finally get rid of all this gender roles nonsense.

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    by » Mon February 15th, 2016, 22:40

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyOfMe
    I was having a conversation with a friend of mine last night and she started telling me how she is curious to get physical with girls, but only the feminine ones, and I was like "there's no such thing like "feminine" or "masculine" IMO"
    It's all just a matter of gender and the social structures reflecting in our conceptions of feminine and masculine in the end. If that's the case, there are days when I feel more feminine and days when I feel more masculine and I feel no shame about it.
    I also hate how people often identify "feminine" gays as bottoms and vice versa, I know quite a few cases that prove the opposite (if identifying 100% with a role in sex is a thing at all). Same goes for lesbians.

    I impatiently wait for the day when we finally get rid of all this gender roles nonsense.
    In the end everything are social constructions. And they exist for a reason. Some people are more feminine than masculine, you describe that as a sin or something unwanted ... That's just the way people are - a construct of characteristics, whatever label you want to use doesn't matter. Masculinity is just a label.

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    by » Mon February 15th, 2016, 22:44

    Quote Originally Posted by LionH3art
    Most people (everyone except peasants) are aware of this now.
    What's there to say, when everything has been said already.
    Thank you for that insightful contribution.

    I doubt you get to see much of the real world up there on your high horse, but perhaps one day you'll grow up enough to offer a mature contribution to a real grown-up issue.

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    by » Mon February 15th, 2016, 22:48

    Quote Originally Posted by LionH3art
    In the end everything are social constructions. And they exist for a reason. Some people are more feminine than masculine, you describe that as a sin or something unwanted ... That's just the way people are - a construct of characteristics, whatever label you want to use doesn't matter. Masculinity is just a label.
    have to agree with this. to me it's just a trait. yes, it's a social construct. but masculinity and femininity shouldn't be associated with positive/negative traits, prejudice or anything, they exist as neutral traits to me. dunno if makes sense because I can't explain well

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    by » Mon February 15th, 2016, 22:51

    Misogyny and homophobia exist in society because we're genderified, but that's only my opinion.

    I didn't wanna describe anything as a sin, sorry if it came off that way

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    by » Mon February 15th, 2016, 22:51

    Quote Originally Posted by Airwrecka
    Quote Originally Posted by LionH3art
    Most people (everyone except peasants) are aware of this now.
    What's there to say, when everything has been said already.
    Thank you for that insightful contribution.

    I doubt you get to see much of the real world up there on your high horse, but perhaps one day you'll grow up enough to offer a mature contribution to a real grown-up issue.
    ???

    I meant that in todays society many people are aware of those differences. Advertisements promote gender neutral nowadays, parents let their kids play with whatever they want etc...
    Only conservative ppl have a hard time coping with this issue AKA peasants.

    So yeah thanks man for the insults

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    by » Mon February 15th, 2016, 22:53

    Quote Originally Posted by mrlemonade
    Quote Originally Posted by LionH3art
    In the end everything are social constructions. And they exist for a reason. Some people are more feminine than masculine, you describe that as a sin or something unwanted ... That's just the way people are - a construct of characteristics, whatever label you want to use doesn't matter. Masculinity is just a label.
    have to agree with this. to me it's just a trait. yes, it's a social construct. but masculinity and femininity shouldn't be associated with positive/negative traits, prejudice or anything, they exist as neutral traits to me. dunno if makes sense because I can't explain well
    Yes, I understand and agree.

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    by » Mon February 15th, 2016, 22:55

    Quote Originally Posted by LionH3art
    Quote Originally Posted by Airwrecka
    Quote Originally Posted by LionH3art
    Most people (everyone except peasants) are aware of this now.
    What's there to say, when everything has been said already.
    Thank you for that insightful contribution.

    I doubt you get to see much of the real world up there on your high horse, but perhaps one day you'll grow up enough to offer a mature contribution to a real grown-up issue.
    ???

    I meant that in todays society many people are aware of those differences. Advertisements promote gender neutral nowadays, parents let their kids play with whatever they want etc...
    Only conservative ppl have a hard time coping with this issue AKA peasants.

    So yeah thanks man for the insults
    Conservative people = peasants ? Thanks for the info.
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    by » Mon February 15th, 2016, 23:14

    Quote Originally Posted by Nippian93
    Conservative people = peasants ? Thanks for the info.
    "Peasants" is an ongoing dig at me that he likes to have, but of course he acts all shocked and innocent when I expose it. If anyone else had made this post, he'd have participated pleasantly.

    There are so many people out there who are scared to be their true self or to explore their gender because of social constructions and expectations, and it is a total ignorant disservice to suggest that everyone is aware of the issue and there is nothing left to talk about. Gender Dysphoria is a very real condition, and there are many examples of intolerance and poor education about this topic in society. Instances of abuse and bullying are very common for adults and children struggling with their gender identity.

    An example of the issues a young transgender girl had to face.

    This is worth considering too:

    At school, children or teenagers with a gender identity issue are often subjected to abuse. Bullying can take many forms; isolation and exclusion, insults and name-calling, and even physical attacks. The child or teenager may have great difficulty in dealing with school life, and can struggle to respond appropriately. However, education about gender identity issues in the school environment is very important and can be highly effective when dealing with these problems.

    Many adults with gender identity issues describe difficulties in childhood. Often they complain of having been very unhappy children and teenagers, and that their suffering had not been recognised early enough by parents and professionals.

    The earlier this suffering can be recognised, then with the right support and treatment, young people can be helped to tolerate living in these distressing conditions until, having found a solution to the identity conflict, they can experience a happier and less traumatic adulthood.
    Source

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    by » Mon February 15th, 2016, 23:18

    Quote Originally Posted by Airwrecka
    Quote Originally Posted by Nippian93
    Conservative people = peasants ? Thanks for the info.
    "Peasants" is an ongoing dig at me that he likes to have, but of course he acts all shocked and innocent when I expose it. If anyone else had made this post, he'd have participated pleasantly."


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    by » Tue February 16th, 2016, 00:00

    There's a lot more awareness now of this but most definitely the majority of people still don't know of this and still enforce rigid gender roles on children and themselves. I think over time it'll get better. We always need more awareness of these things so we can be more understanding and sympathetic to peoples experiences.

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    by » Tue February 16th, 2016, 00:20

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyOfMe
    I was having a conversation with a friend of mine last night and she started telling me how she is curious to get physical with girls, but only the feminine ones, and I was like "there's no such thing like "feminine" or "masculine" IMO"
    It's all just a matter of gender and the social structures reflecting in our conceptions of feminine and masculine in the end. If that's the case, there are days when I feel more feminine and days when I feel more masculine and I feel no shame about it.
    I also hate how people often identify "feminine" gays as bottoms and vice versa, I know quite a few cases that prove the opposite (if identifying 100% with a role in sex is a thing at all). Same goes for lesbians.

    I impatiently wait for the day when we finally get rid of all this gender roles nonsense.
    This is a great post and sums up pretty much how I feel, my biological sex is male but what actually makes me who I am is beyond terms like male/female 'I' just happen to inhabit this male body. Us humans love labels that's the biggest problem
    It might sound like I'm an unapologetic bitch
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    by » Tue February 16th, 2016, 00:50

    Quote Originally Posted by Madgefan
    This is a great post and sums up pretty much how I feel, my biological sex is male but what actually makes me who I am is beyond terms like male/female 'I' just happen to inhabit this male body. Us humans love labels that's the biggest problem
    Glad you said that because that is precisely what you do. In fact everyone inhabits a body. In the same way a clownfish lives in a stinging jellyfish.
    The fact that you see yourself without "gender" probably means your soul is quite an enlightened one.
    Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

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    by » Tue February 16th, 2016, 01:23

    Many adults with gender identity issues describe difficulties in childhood. Often they complain of having been very unhappy children and teenagers, and that their suffering had not been recognised early enough by parents and professionals.
    This does not surprise me. But it's not the kids that are to blame it's the issue at the root cause of many of the World's problems today. The "School" itself is to blame.
    If you stick loads of kids about the same age into that kind of place each day then try and pass knowledge of human development on to them by a few people, who have often little experience of it (having just completed education themselves). Especially when the emphasises of education is on practical stuff, such as maths, English or science. Then what is going to happen is that such children will grow up with childish behaviour. Picking on others who are different. Because they will learn not from professionals or parents (in fact the human body during the teenage years is designed to ignore parental advice). They learn instead from those around them. Which leaves a lot to be desired. I cannot see many people allowing their kids to be taught by a 14 year old kid. But that precisely is what happens in schools, though the age of the pupil and who gives this advice will change according to each child being taught in a school.
    I don't think you can find an experienced person to deal with issues like gender in a school, even if you did (for every school) they probably have only a marginal effect, since the "culture" that is built it every school will cancel it out. It would be like telling the teenager into loud rock music (just like the Jackson video) to turn it down!
    The solution is to integrate young people into society with adults, while providing education of the maths etc,. Not keeping them in day jails for kids!
    When the world realises this, then the World will be a better place for all.
    Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

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    by » Tue February 16th, 2016, 01:34

    Interesting stance, Graham. I think there is definitely something thought-provoking in your argument, although I'm not sure what the solution is? Send kids to work as interns at the age of 5?

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    by » Tue February 16th, 2016, 03:27

    Quote Originally Posted by Airwrecka
    Interesting stance, Graham. I think there is definitely something thought-provoking in your argument, although I'm not sure what the solution is? Send kids to work as interns at the age of 5?
    Gender issues and the real personality of a person doesn't really kick in until after the age of 12, generally after puberty starts altering the body. It's then when the child starts thinking serious about how it fits in with society and the people around them. Before that sending kids to school doesn't effect the later development. It wasn't till after compulsory education after 13 years of age was introduced in most countries did any real issues arise.
    Of course in underdeveloped countries children do work at very young ages, as they used to do in the UK during the industrial revolution. But I don't think it helps them to develop their minds better. Even way back in the past during the hunter/gatherer period (when the basics of human personal development was formed) very young children were probably in the kind of protective environment that a "school" would offer, with them grouped together, cared for by just a few members of the tribe.
    You do have to bear in mind that some parents educate their kids at home. Other children do work quite legally and nobody thinks it's wrong. Such as child actors. They might already grow up differently to those just given formal education. Since they probably mix with a wider range of adults than most kids do. However the pressure of society, might damage this development. In an effort to prevent or more likely "protect" young people from the "abuse" of adults, by keeping adults away from them and encouraging the mixing with people of their own age. Similarly the home educated child might also lack the presence of adults that are not relations as they mature.
    Another thing you have to consider is that the young person has to mix with a wide age range of people. It would be no use sending them to place of work where there are 20 of them to just a few adults. That would be no different to a school. Though at least they would not be a burden on the Tax system that school is today! About 50% of Council spending goes on education of the young.
    Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

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    by » Tue February 16th, 2016, 03:43

    It will never leave because it will always be taught. It can be anything, ranging from violence to racial discrimination to gender discrimination.
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    by » Tue February 16th, 2016, 11:47

    A question I'd like to ask/contribute - is gender fluidity important and if yes, why so?

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    by » Tue February 16th, 2016, 12:07

    Isn't everyone in here forgetting what we are all here for?
    Well, it's called sex. Passing our genes onto the next generation.
    Males carry XY chromosomes and females XX. So there is a role assigned to every one of us at birth, label it or not, we are biologically different.

    Homosexuality is a mechanism intended for population control, happening in most other species. Maybe this misidentity issue has the same origin... But has it been shown where genetically it happens? Or is it a pure environmental thing?
    I really don't know enough to be able to comment on it, but I have a few questions.

    When, in history, did transsexuality begun? And where does it occur in the world? Everywhere equally? Does it occurr in native tribes?
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