Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 66

Thread: Gender Identity & The Gender Spectrum

  1. #26
    Graham76man's Avatar
    Superstar
    Join Date
    26 Jul 2010
    Location
    Sheffield
    Posts
    5,170
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)

    by Tue February 16th, 2016, 12:38

    Quote Originally Posted by Crackiswack
    It will never leave because it will always be taught. It can be anything, ranging from violence to racial discrimination to gender discrimination.
    Perhaps true, though it might be more to do with genetics than teaching. But if it is taught, then it's getting worse and the cause of that is the education system. Keeping young teenagers in a school with 100's of them is asking for trouble. Ask yourself what do they really know? Do they have the common sense to even recognise what they might be doing to others is wrong?
    I do think that people have developed positive attitudes to dealing with discrimination from being at school during those formative years. However I don't think it is from "anti-sexist" or any other "anti" training they had. More likely from being in situations where these things have happened. Either to themselves or others. And they were disgusted by it, or tried to get things done to stop it and were greeted with the usual excuses from teachers or family. "They will grow out of it". "Time to man up". "Walk like a man". "Big Girls don't cry". And the rest....
    Many schools are also "faith" schools. Children going to those schools with conflicting views about gender, will not be greeted by just those who just don't like them for being different, but will have the moral thing labelled on them. Outright prejudiced from the people who are there "officially" to advise and help them grow.
    Even teachers from normal schools have 20 or more pupils to deal with. They don't simply have the time to deal with each child. So each child will have to deal with their fellow pupils. Confide in them if they can. But if you have gender issues. It would be like a Justin Bieber fan hanging around with 20 Iron Maiden fans! Then trying to find one that at least gets where your at with being a Bieber fan!
    Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

  2. #27
    ArmyOfMe's Avatar
    Superstar
    Join Date
    13 Dec 2014
    Location
    Milan
    Posts
    8,745
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)

    by Tue February 16th, 2016, 13:02

    Quote Originally Posted by BLover
    Homosexuality is a mechanism intended for population control, happening in most other species.
    Homosexuality is an invention of major labels to make Taylor Swift sell

  3. #28
    DnBLover's Avatar
    Legend
    Join Date
    21 Dec 2009
    Location
    PT-NO
    Posts
    15,151
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)

    by Tue February 16th, 2016, 13:14

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyOfMe
    Quote Originally Posted by BLover
    Homosexuality is a mechanism intended for population control, happening in most other species.
    Homosexuality is an invention of major labels to make Taylor Swift sell
    Hmm or that, but overpopulation is a serious issue to species' populations. Hence it has an evolutionary meaning, being a genetic alteration, and happening in the vast majority of species. Every thing you do, crave or act upon has been shaped by evolution, whether you disregard it or not.
    I am the maniac, I am the ghoul
    I'm in the shadows in the corners of my room

  4. #29
    Graham76man's Avatar
    Superstar
    Join Date
    26 Jul 2010
    Location
    Sheffield
    Posts
    5,170
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)

    by Tue February 16th, 2016, 13:18

    Quote Originally Posted by BLover
    Isn't everyone in here forgetting what we are all here for?
    Well, it's called sex. Passing our genes onto the next generation.
    Males carry XY chromosomes and females XX. So there is a role assigned to every one of us at birth, label it or not, we are biologically different.

    Homosexuality is a mechanism intended for population control, happening in most other species. Maybe this misidentity issue has the same origin... But has it been shown where genetically it happens? Or is it a pure environmental thing?
    I really don't know enough to be able to comment on it, but I have a few questions.

    When, in history, did transsexuality begun? And where does it occur in the world? Everywhere equally? Does it occurr in native tribes?
    There are actually a number of differences between Homosexuality and Transgender. In the latter the person might not want to have sex with a person of the same sex. They simply want to be a member of the opposite sex. Medical advances since about 1900 have meant that they can become a person of the opposite sex. However even when they have had a full sex change they might still have the sexuality that they had before the change and still love the person they were having sex with before. So if a man changes to a woman, they might thus become a lesbian, where's as before they were, in most people's eyes - straight!
    Gay people have no desire to change sex to accommodate the need to have sex with the same gender. I don't believe that being gay in any species is intended to control the population. It might do that, but current thinking is that it's either a "fault" or an adaption that is being genetically passed on. You can argue it does have social benefits to society. Producing more caring males or harder females.
    As all embryos are female to start it's not surprising that some see themselves as female that are born male. I suppose it's a bit harder to imagine the other way around. But one could see it as the male part being more dominate than the female embryo. But most science people think that the sexuality and other things are coded in the DNA, not in the chromosomes.
    Since DNA is common to us all, it will have been with us since the first person that we are all descended from. I woman that scientists have called "Eve" found in Africa who lived thousands of years ago.
    It is therefore all around the world. Though how common will depend on the variants in the gene pool.
    Clothing is often an indication of cross gender issues. But it's actual more cultural than anything else shows. As this picture of a 17th Century Spanish BOY implies:
    Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

  5. #30
    Madgefan's Avatar
    Superstar
    Join Date
    19 May 2013
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    7,535
    Mentioned
    62 Post(s)

    by Thu February 18th, 2016, 00:35

    Quote Originally Posted by BLover
    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyOfMe
    Quote Originally Posted by BLover
    Homosexuality is a mechanism intended for population control, happening in most other species.
    Homosexuality is an invention of major labels to make Taylor Swift sell
    Hmm or that, but overpopulation is a serious issue to species' populations. Hence it has an evolutionary meaning, being a genetic alteration, and happening in the vast majority of species. Every thing you do, crave or act upon has been shaped by evolution, whether you disregard it or not.
    How is this an evolutionary trait? Population control implies this kicks in when overpopulation is occuring, what is the feedback mechanism for this ? And also isn't it a little too late once the population has already reached a critical level. Genes cannot predict the future they can only be shaped Natural Selection, that is by an organism's adaptation to its environment.

    For it to work as a method of natural selection it would have to favour a gene that limited the reproduction of an individual and then pass that gene on. By it's very nature homosexuality decreases the likelihood of having children therefore such a gene would have a poor rate of transfer from one generation to another, not a particularly reliable method to control anything I'm sure you would agree.

    I do think homosexuality is genetic but I certainly don't believe it is for population control .... nature cannot predict the future.
    It might sound like I'm an unapologetic bitch
    But sometimes you know I gotta call it like it is

  6. #31
    DnBLover's Avatar
    Legend
    Join Date
    21 Dec 2009
    Location
    PT-NO
    Posts
    15,151
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)

    by Thu February 18th, 2016, 00:42

    Yes, it's certainly not a Natural Selection mechanism. Sorry.
    I'll inform myself better before commenting again.
    I am the maniac, I am the ghoul
    I'm in the shadows in the corners of my room

  7. #32
    Erotica's Avatar
    Legend
    Join Date
    15 Mar 2014
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    18,884
    Mentioned
    118 Post(s)

    by Thu February 18th, 2016, 01:06

    To be honest this topic is difficult for me. I can imagine homosexuality for example being genetic. But I don't know
    I am not trying to seduce you... Would you like me to seduce you? Is that what you're trying to tell me?

  8. #33
    Airwrecka's Avatar
    Legend
    Join Date
    25 Nov 2013
    Location
    Winterfell
    Posts
    13,737
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)

    by Thu February 18th, 2016, 01:25

    There are plenty of fascinating articles out there which explore the relationship between homosexuality and natural selection. I've picked a couple of examples:

    Article 1
    Article 2

    It's mostly theoretical because scientists have yet to understand the full complexities of our genetics, but these theories do demonstrate that are plenty of plausible explanations for how homosexuality has evolved in humans.

    However, as I said at the beginning of this thread, sexuality is not the same thing as gender. This thread is about understanding our biological sex and our self-identification within the gender spectrum. Sexuality is of course linked very strongly within this discussion, but it is not the same thing.

  9. #34
    Madgefan's Avatar
    Superstar
    Join Date
    19 May 2013
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    7,535
    Mentioned
    62 Post(s)

    by Thu February 18th, 2016, 01:29

    Quote Originally Posted by Airwrecka
    There are plenty of fascinating articles out there which explore the relationship between homosexuality and natural selection. I picked a couple of examples:

    Article 1
    Article 2

    It's mostly theoretical because scientists have yet to understand the full complexities of our genetics, but these theories do demonstrate that are plenty of plausible explanations for how homosexuality has evolved in humans.

    However, as I said at the beginning of this thread, sexuality is not the same thing as gender. This thread is about understanding our biological sex and our self-identification within the gender spectrum. Sexuality is of course linked very strongly within this discussion, but it is not the same thing.
    Oh, I do agree homosexuality must have developed by Natural Selection for one reason or another but I was absolutely disagreeing it was as a method of population control. There must be some biological advantage to having the gene or it would most likely have resulted in an evolutionary dead end.
    It might sound like I'm an unapologetic bitch
    But sometimes you know I gotta call it like it is

  10. #35
    DnBLover's Avatar
    Legend
    Join Date
    21 Dec 2009
    Location
    PT-NO
    Posts
    15,151
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)

    by Thu February 18th, 2016, 01:30

    Natural Selection is only one evolutionary "pathway", there are plenty more.
    I am the maniac, I am the ghoul
    I'm in the shadows in the corners of my room

  11. #36
    Airwrecka's Avatar
    Legend
    Join Date
    25 Nov 2013
    Location
    Winterfell
    Posts
    13,737
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)

    by Thu February 18th, 2016, 01:33

    Quote Originally Posted by BLover
    Natural Selection is only one evolutionary "pathway", there are plenty more.
    Yes, but you two were talking about natural selection, so I extended my contribution accordingly.

  12. #37
    Madgefan's Avatar
    Superstar
    Join Date
    19 May 2013
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    7,535
    Mentioned
    62 Post(s)

    by Thu February 18th, 2016, 01:35

    Quote Originally Posted by BLover
    Natural Selection is only one evolutionary "pathway", there are plenty more.
    Even if it developed by mutation it would still ultimately be selected for by natural selection, it is the main driving force behind evolution.
    It might sound like I'm an unapologetic bitch
    But sometimes you know I gotta call it like it is

  13. #38
    DnBLover's Avatar
    Legend
    Join Date
    21 Dec 2009
    Location
    PT-NO
    Posts
    15,151
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)

    by Thu February 18th, 2016, 01:37

    Quote Originally Posted by Madgefan
    Quote Originally Posted by BLover
    Natural Selection is only one evolutionary "pathway", there are plenty more.
    Even if it developed by mutation it would still ultimately be selected for by natural selection, it is the main driving force behind evolution.
    hmmm not necessarily. Genetic drift, for instance.
    This is a complicated issue.
    I am the maniac, I am the ghoul
    I'm in the shadows in the corners of my room

  14. #39
    Madgefan's Avatar
    Superstar
    Join Date
    19 May 2013
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    7,535
    Mentioned
    62 Post(s)

    by Thu February 18th, 2016, 01:40

    Quote Originally Posted by BLover
    Quote Originally Posted by Madgefan
    Quote Originally Posted by BLover
    Natural Selection is only one evolutionary "pathway", there are plenty more.
    Even if it developed by mutation it would still ultimately be selected for by natural selection, it is the main driving force behind evolution.
    hmmm not necessarily. Genetic drift, for instance.
    This is a complicated issue.
    I think we need an evolution thread, we are kind of going off the topic of gender identity now
    It might sound like I'm an unapologetic bitch
    But sometimes you know I gotta call it like it is

  15. #40
    CrazyCrazy's Avatar
    Legend
    Join Date
    06 Jan 2008
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    53,741
    Mentioned
    89 Post(s)

    by Thu February 18th, 2016, 01:43

    Too in depth for my brain guys. Are you scientists or something?
    My tits are made of silicone, just like the Earth and sea...

  16. #41
    Madgefan's Avatar
    Superstar
    Join Date
    19 May 2013
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    7,535
    Mentioned
    62 Post(s)

    by Thu February 18th, 2016, 01:44

    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyCrazy
    Too in depth for my brain guys. Are you scientists or something?
    Used to be
    It might sound like I'm an unapologetic bitch
    But sometimes you know I gotta call it like it is

  17. #42
    Airwrecka's Avatar
    Legend
    Join Date
    25 Nov 2013
    Location
    Winterfell
    Posts
    13,737
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)

    by Thu February 18th, 2016, 02:46

    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyCrazy
    Too in depth for my brain guys. Are you scientists or something?
    I have a degree in Biological Diversity.

    It's actually refreshing to have a scientific debate on here.

  18. #43

    by Thu February 18th, 2016, 03:04

    Quote Originally Posted by BLover
    Quote Originally Posted by Madgefan
    Quote Originally Posted by BLover
    Natural Selection is only one evolutionary "pathway", there are plenty more.
    Even if it developed by mutation it would still ultimately be selected for by natural selection, it is the main driving force behind evolution.
    hmmm not necessarily. Genetic drift, for instance.
    This is a complicated issue.

    Eeek your theory here is so flawed though
    Forever Young

  19. #44
    Graham76man's Avatar
    Superstar
    Join Date
    26 Jul 2010
    Location
    Sheffield
    Posts
    5,170
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)

    by Thu February 18th, 2016, 17:14

    There clearly is a lot of confusion in the population between gender and sexuality.
    But it does need to be said that those who are gay are not confused about their gender. They are happy about being male or female they just are attracted to the same sex as them.
    Whereas a person with a gender issue is not happy being the gender their body suggests they are.

    It used to be thought that Natural selection was based on the survival of the fittest. Those strong enough to survive would pass on their genes to the next generation. But we now think that is not the case. For example the Lion is seen as the ultimate example of the later explanation. But the other view states that the Lion would actually go extinct for being precisely that. Since it would kill all around that are weak, leaving nothing for it to feed on!

    I personally see that in terms of human beings that the genetic development in us is the brain. Which has been getting more powerful all the time we have been around. In fact the rest of the body is simply geared up to keep this organ active and healthy. It's very clear that it controls every bit of us. If it thinks for example that it is the wrong body it will do it's best to make the individual lousy about themselves, enduring great pain, just to get the body looking like it wants to be.

    The rest of the human body is actually stagnant as far as development is concerned. Most of the body of the modern human was set up to deal with when humans where hunter gatherers. It can't cope with sugar. Since sugar was in short supply 10,000 years ago (incidentally its great brain food). It has a mechanism to switch off the hunger mechanism, but only if you eat large quantities of protein (meat). But none for "bread" products. Teeth are designed only to last till your 30. With no more replacements. Despite the fact most of us live much longer that that. Stress a big killer now, is simply based on the fact we can't run away from those Lions out there, like we once could.
    Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

  20. #45
    DnBLover's Avatar
    Legend
    Join Date
    21 Dec 2009
    Location
    PT-NO
    Posts
    15,151
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)

    by Thu February 18th, 2016, 22:10

    I took back what I said loveguru. I don't think I was right to start with, and I don't think it's well explained by Natural selection.
    I am the maniac, I am the ghoul
    I'm in the shadows in the corners of my room

  21. #46
    heppolo's Avatar
    Legend
    Join Date
    17 May 2009
    Location
    interchangeable
    Posts
    26,801
    Mentioned
    174 Post(s)

    by Sun June 30th, 2019, 12:13

    The whole issue of gender as a social construct is quite interesting, but the fact that so many people still confuse gender and sexuality is just sad.
    Waffles are checked cookies

  22. #47
    CrazyCrazy's Avatar
    Legend
    Join Date
    06 Jan 2008
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    53,741
    Mentioned
    89 Post(s)

    by Sun June 30th, 2019, 15:16

    I won't really go into the gender thing much because that is so complicated to me and I don't know a lot about it, I understand some people have gender dysphoria which explains the transgender person. I do think some of the labels people put on themselves seem to contradict each other though...like how can you be transgender and non binary at the same time? Does that actually make any sense?

    One theory I heard about why people are gay is to do with the high levels of oestrogen or testosterone they were exposed to in the womb, just one theory. I believe we are born gay or born with something in our makeup which determines that later on but I'm open to learning more about it, it's interesting to me.
    My tits are made of silicone, just like the Earth and sea...

  23. #48
    Serby's Avatar
    Legend
    Join Date
    19 Jan 2011
    Location
    Halliwell Manor
    Posts
    37,430
    Mentioned
    36 Post(s)

    by Sun June 30th, 2019, 19:56

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyOfMe View Post
    Misogyny and homophobia exist in society because we're genderified, but that's only my opinion.

    I didn't wanna describe anything as a sin, sorry if it came off that way
    Yes!

    People are legit scared of the gender cuz they don't understand it and write it off as some new age talk, when in fact, it's such a complex topic closely tied with so many other social justice topics.

    For starters, gender is not binary nor it has anything to do with your sex.

    Secondly, the anti trans movement have weaponized biology as a science. The topic around how biology came to exist, who were the people who started it, what was the ideology behind it and how eurocentric it is needs to happen.

    Looking forward to education. Discussion? We don't know her, people's existence is not up for a debate.
    be kind to every kind (also the unkind kind!!!!! )

  24. #49
    Serby's Avatar
    Legend
    Join Date
    19 Jan 2011
    Location
    Halliwell Manor
    Posts
    37,430
    Mentioned
    36 Post(s)

    by Sun June 30th, 2019, 21:04

    Also, trans women are biologically women, but they are of biological male sex.



    I should stop for now before I go a bit deeper into this topic.
    Last edited by Serby; Sun June 30th, 2019 at 21:15.
    be kind to every kind (also the unkind kind!!!!! )

  25. #50
    Serby's Avatar
    Legend
    Join Date
    19 Jan 2011
    Location
    Halliwell Manor
    Posts
    37,430
    Mentioned
    36 Post(s)

    by Thu July 11th, 2019, 00:07

    For those who want to follow amazing gender justice educators, follow Ericka Hart for starters. They are amazing! How gender intersects with race and can't be discussed in a vacuum is what you'll find there.

    be kind to every kind (also the unkind kind!!!!! )

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •