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Thread: Gender Identity & The Gender Spectrum

  1. #51
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    by » Thu July 11th, 2019, 00:11

    Also, what better place than this thread to announce that from now on, I use they/them pronouns along with he/him.
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  2. #52
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    by » Thu July 11th, 2019, 01:44

    Quote Originally Posted by Serby View Post
    Yes!

    People are legit scared of the gender cuz they don't understand it and write it off as some new age talk, when in fact, it's such a complex topic closely tied with so many other social justice topics.

    For starters, gender is not binary nor it has anything to do with your sex.

    Secondly, the anti trans movement have weaponized biology as a science. The topic around how biology came to exist, who were the people who started it, what was the ideology behind it and how eurocentric it is needs to happen.

    Looking forward to education. Discussion? We don't know her, people's existence is not up for a debate.
    What you're preaching here is nothing more then ideology, with no substract of reality.

    If gender has nothing to do with biological sex, why are there people willing to change their anatomy to match with the gender they identify with? Gender is not simply "assigned at birth". There is a very small percentage of people who identify with the gender opposite to their biological sex, but this is the exception. And yes, there are people who are biologically intersex or hermaphrodite. But the fact that people can be born with various types of anomalies doesn't change the fact that healthy human bodies are either male or female, and that is the natural condition for human procreation.

    Also, the whole "in western culture" thing is nothing but delusional BS. People are categorized in male or female in every human culture, because that's not a cultural invention, but human nature, matter of fact.

    It is precisely western middle class people, without much real problems in life, who invent those silly "non-binary femme" identities. That's artificial and ideological. It has nothing to do with social justice, in fact it distracts people from the real injustices. That's why it only appears in middle class people tryng to look special or opressed.

    In other words, silly new age hippie non-sense. No wonder most people who believe that crap also believe in astrology, talk to plants, etc.

  3. #53
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    by » Thu July 11th, 2019, 07:29

    I think there will come a time where identifying oneself to a certain gender will be offensive. It just goes way beyond the spectrum to a point where there may be some people who will fight for rights in favor of dating plants and animals or even non-living things.

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    by » Thu July 11th, 2019, 12:37

    Quote Originally Posted by joao View Post
    What you're preaching here is nothing more then ideology, with no substract of reality.

    If gender has nothing to do with biological sex, why are there people willing to change their anatomy to match with the gender they identify with? Gender is not simply "assigned at birth". There is a very small percentage of people who identify with the gender opposite to their biological sex, but this is the exception. And yes, there are people who are biologically intersex or hermaphrodite. But the fact that people can be born with various types of anomalies doesn't change the fact that healthy human bodies are either male or female, and that is the natural condition for human procreation.

    Also, the whole "in western culture" thing is nothing but delusional BS. People are categorized in male or female in every human culture, because that's not a cultural invention, but human nature, matter of fact.

    It is precisely western middle class people, without much real problems in life, who invent those silly "non-binary femme" identities. That's artificial and ideological. It has nothing to do with social justice, in fact it distracts people from the real injustices. That's why it only appears in middle class people tryng to look special or opressed.

    In other words, silly new age hippie non-sense. No wonder most people who believe that crap also believe in astrology, talk to plants, etc.
    Nice to see some rational logic and common sense, Serby is too much sometimes and clearly gets his talking points from the “how to be a good liberal” handbook, saying your opinion like it’s fact and everyone should just agree and if not they are bad people why would any rational person just dismiss biology altogether (which is undeniable) in favour for an ideology?

    There is also such a thing as someone who thinks they are a disabled person in a non disabled body...I mean..if that isn’t a psychological thing I do not know what is. I actually don’t care what someone identifies as, as it doesn’t hurt me and they are free to do what they want and I’d respect that person and refer to them in public as they identify as I’m polite... it’s just this horrible attitude that comes from some people, stop bullying people into believing things that they don’t have to, that’s a big problem.

    There are so many things I could list here that liberal people are trying to push that I can’t understand but I’d be here all day. Anyone heard of theybies?...raising children to be confused...is progressive?

    Also nobody answered my question about how being non binary and transgender at the same time makes sense?

    What do people think about transgender people competing against biological women/men in sports? Logic tells me that generally the transgender women would have a physical advantage over the women and that is not fair right? No SJW rubbish please.
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    by » Thu July 11th, 2019, 14:38

    Just to make things clear, I don´t have a problem with sexual minorities and with people who don´t identify with their sex of birth. In fact, I believe every person should be allowed to make their own choices concerning sex, identity, clothes, etc, as long as everything that is done between people is consensual and doesn´t involve infants or adolescents.

    However, I do feel that minorities are being manipulated for political gain, and this has nothing to do with seeking justice. Otherwise, why would all big companies and billionaires all jump in these progressive causes? If this was really about subverting the current order of power, you´d expect people on top of the game to shy away from it, and not to fund these causes with millions of their money.

    But big companies benefit from identity politics. They don´t want strong cultures, strong nations or strong families, but only individuals desperately searching for an identity. This leads to massive consumption, and weaker cultures and states make it easier for big companies to push whatever they want into consumers. In fact, these companies are dictating what people should believe and how they should act in a way that not even religions have done in the past, it´s frightening! They are funding pseudo-sciences like "gender studies" and criminalising dissent.

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    by » Thu July 11th, 2019, 15:18

    I have a lot to say on this topic but let me just say that sex is undeniable. You can identify with whoever you want but that won't change your body. It won't change your internal organs, your hormones and the fact that you can carry a baby or not. Biological women have the reproductive system to carry a baby, biological men don't. That's the difference. This has several health and structural implications.
    @CrazyCrazy non-binary is the opposite of transgender in my opinion. Transgender is about changing boxes, non-binary is about jumping out.

    This is a very sensitive topic, but I am in favour of people being free to be themselves without having to conform to boxes. But I am not in favour of delusion.

    I also think that all this talk is both confusing to people, makes the movement lose credibility and takes away from very important issues.
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    by » Thu July 11th, 2019, 15:23

    *inhales deeply* @joao

    Ignorance really is a blessing I guess. Talking about ideology as if we are not living in world made out of harmful ideologies already. The way you don't question the world as it is is scary, you take it as organic and as if it shaped into what is now by itself.
    Last edited by Serby; Thu July 11th, 2019 at 15:26.
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    by » Thu July 11th, 2019, 15:46

    Quote Originally Posted by DnBLover View Post
    I have a lot to say on this topic but let me just say that sex is undeniable. You can identify with whoever you want but that won't change your body. It won't change your internal organs, your hormones and the fact that you can carry a baby or not. Biological women have the reproductive system to carry a baby, biological men don't. That's the difference. This has several health and structural implications.
    @CrazyCrazy non-binary is the opposite of transgender in my opinion. Transgender is about changing boxes, non-binary is about jumping out.

    This is a very sensitive topic, but I am in favour of people being free to be themselves without having to conform to boxes. But I am not in favour of delusion.

    I also think that all this talk is both confusing to people, makes the movement lose credibility and takes away from very important issues.
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    by » Thu July 11th, 2019, 15:50

    Also, capitalist coopting the movements for their personal gain is just pink/green/whatever washing and that logic is just so faulty.
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    by » Thu July 11th, 2019, 15:50

    Let's say that I'm on the more conservative side of the political spectrum and my opinion of gender identities and issues in general may differ from @Serby's. But unlike during my first stop of UKMix, I've grown to be tolerant of points of view that differ from my personal one. So while I tend to side with the likes of @joao or @CrazyCrazy in that regard, I have to say that I wouldn't want to change anyone's state of mind in that regard. So if @Serby considers this topic a relevant one for his personal life situation, that's gotta be cool for me as long as he, on the other hand, doesn't expect me to do similar - as a sign of mutual respect, you know.
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    by » Thu July 11th, 2019, 18:00

    Quote Originally Posted by Serby View Post
    *inhales deeply* @joao

    Ignorance really is a blessing I guess. Talking about ideology as if we are not living in world made out of harmful ideologies already. The way you don't question the world as it is is scary, you take it as organic and as if it shaped into what is now by itself.
    Since you are living in a world full of harmful ideology, why add another one? Of course, I question the world and its ideologies (and gender ideology is one of the new stupid ideologies IMO), but that doesn´t change the fact that there are still objective facts out there that cannot be changed regardless of our beliefs. You sayng things like "a trans woman IS a biological woman" or "gender has nothing to do with biological sex" is the same as denying as objective facts out of pure belief. It´s not better then creationists who say the world has 6,000 years, for example. And what´s more scary is people who support this type of thought usually want to impose sanctions of those who don´t agree.

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    by » Thu July 11th, 2019, 18:54

    Quote Originally Posted by DnBLover View Post
    .
    @CrazyCrazy non-binary is the opposite of transgender in my opinion. Transgender is about changing boxes, non-binary is about jumping out.
    Yeah I know what they mean (kinda), I was just asking if it made any sense to identify as both at the same time as I’ve heard a few people saying they are both, so you confirm it doesn’t make sense.
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  13. #63
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    by » Thu July 11th, 2019, 23:40

    Nonbinary people are also trans. You don't need dysphoria and gender alignment surgery to be trans.

    Trans comes from Latin word meaning on the other side of or sth like that, so everyone whose gender doesn't align with the gender assigned at birth is trans. If you are not a cis person (your gender is same as the one assigned based on your sex organs), you're trans.
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    by » Thu July 11th, 2019, 23:43

    Also trans people who undergo surgeries are not changing boxes per se, more like trying to align their bodies to their identity.

    Someone ask why fit into all the "stereotypes" of what a woman is, but you don't realise that what trans people want is to have their identities reaffirmed by the society. The more you pass, the safer you are.

    A trans woman is not a man who struggles with being feminine nor would a society that allows "male sex" bodied people to be any way elevate their struggle. If there was society where gender =/= what you have in your pants, trans people would not need to have surgeries to relief themselves.

    So, if we ever reach a society where who we consider to be a man can be a man, woman or none, all of it would be solved.
    Last edited by Serby; Fri July 12th, 2019 at 09:48.
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    by » Fri July 12th, 2019, 00:09

    Quote Originally Posted by DnBLover View Post
    This is a very sensitive topic, but I am in favour of people being free to be themselves without having to conform to boxes. But I am not in favour of delusion.

    I also think that all this talk is both confusing to people, makes the movement lose credibility and takes away from very important issues.
    Takes away from what important issues? Also people being confused says about people, not the movement imo.

    And what delusion? No one is denying chromosomes, sex organs and what not, but people are more than just their bodies.
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    by » Fri July 12th, 2019, 14:14

    Check her out, she's really amazing at what she does. Also, many of the question I've seen here have been answered way better than I ever could and this video specifically tackles the TERFs (trans exclusionary radical feminists). A must watch.


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