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Thread: 13 Reasons Why

  1. #176
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    by » Tue September 10th, 2019, 14:54

    @clh_hilary LMAO I am an actual statistician myself. So just don't even.

    I will have a read at those studies.
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    by » Tue September 10th, 2019, 15:07

    Quote Originally Posted by WEBofDESIRE View Post
    @clh_hilary, the only wishful thinking is in your "studies". They are scientifically meaningless because results are based purely on the circumstance of time and not any direct links to 13RW. I could create a similar "study" when a new ice cream flavor is released. The research only indicates occurrences during a period of time. Were there tapes left behind, or social media posts that indicated that the charted individuals were mimicking 13RW? Short of a seance with the dearly departed, how did they create real (not hypothetical) control groups for depressed/suicidal youth that both did and didn't watch this series?
    There are several issues with these papers. They do provide some evidence, but weak evidence. I can detail later why I think so.
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  3. #178
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    by » Tue September 10th, 2019, 19:06

    Quote Originally Posted by WEBofDESIRE View Post
    @clh_hilary, the only wishful thinking is in your "studies". They are scientifically meaningless because results are based purely on the circumstance of time and not any direct links to 13RW. I could create a similar "study" when a new ice cream flavor is released. The research only indicates occurrences during a period of time. Were there tapes left behind, or social media posts that indicated that the charted individuals were mimicking 13RW? Short of a seance with the dearly departed, how did they create real (not hypothetical) control groups for depressed/suicidal youth that both did and didn't watch this series?
    So basically, you would refuse to accept any evidence unless an unethical study could be done. A study that could potentially cause the loss of lives of your research participants.

    Also, the fact that you are using quotation marks to seemingly suggest they aren't real studies is pathetic. They are published, peer-reviewed studies done by actual university academics.

    I wonder if you believe condoms could prevent the spread of HIV? There has never been a study with control groups to test whether someone is infected by a known HIV positive person with the same viral load by having their HIV negative subjects have sex with that person with or without a condom. Based on your logic, this means we won't know whether condoms could prevent the spread of HIV.

    We also don't know if vaccines work. We haven't had a study to intentionally infect someone with the disease and infect someone else who has been vaccinated. We have only been looking into the trends and numbers. You could do a study on the falling number of pirates and say that's the cause for those diseases to disappear, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by WhatTheHell
    Voice of the truth here!! :(

  4. #179
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    by » Tue September 10th, 2019, 19:10

    Quote Originally Posted by DnBLover View Post
    There are several issues with these papers. They do provide some evidence, but weak evidence. I can detail later why I think so.
    Please mention or quote me when you do.
    Quote Originally Posted by WhatTheHell
    Voice of the truth here!! :(

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    by » Tue September 10th, 2019, 19:13

    @clh_hilary I'm just observing your point of view and the agenda is jumping out quite obviously. You're trying to make your point clear with some aggressive examples and opinions while not even considering the other side of the story. That's all.
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    by » Tue September 10th, 2019, 19:19

    Quote Originally Posted by clh_hilary View Post
    So basically, you would refuse to accept any evidence unless an unethical study could be done. A study that could potentially cause the loss of lives of your research participants.

    Also, the fact that you are using quotation marks to seemingly suggest they aren't real studies is pathetic. They are published, peer-reviewed studies done by actual university academics.

    I wonder if you believe condoms could prevent the spread of HIV? There has never been a study with control groups to test whether someone is infected by a known HIV positive person with the same viral load by having their HIV negative subjects have sex with that person with or without a condom. Based on your logic, this means we won't know whether condoms could prevent the spread of HIV.

    We also don't know if vaccines work. We haven't had a study to intentionally infect someone with the disease and infect someone else who has been vaccinated. We have only been looking into the trends and numbers. You could do a study on the falling number of pirates and say that's the cause for those diseases to disappear, right?
    @clh_hilary

    Vaccines are scientifically tested, Einstein. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/basics/test-approve.html You don't have to intentionally infect someone for testing. You do need control groups to compare infection rates of vaccinated individuals to the unvaccinated before declaring a benefit. You're saying you'd just let them give you anything than?

    You could do a study on the falling number of pirates and say that's the cause for those diseases to disappear, right?
    You do realize that this is what you've been doing right?

    There were tangible numbers regarding the ability of condoms to block bodily fluids and numerous studies (proper scientific mind you) regarding the ability of condoms to limit STD transmission. This was actually a much smaller leap logically than your claims regarding 13RW. Hilariously, a lot of the early and demonstrably false papers on AIDS were built on flimsy mathematical models and conjecture. Those got published also.

    Not exactly the same thing as A. assuming a group of individuals watched a TV show and B. assuming that a specific action was taken as a result. In this scenario, confirming that the individuals were even aware of the show let alone watched it in totality is critical.

    When you can produce hard numbers regarding an increased number of suicides among viewers of this show, let me know. Until then, take a seat.

  7. #182
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    by » Tue September 10th, 2019, 23:44

    Quote Originally Posted by WEBofDESIRE View Post
    @clh_hilary

    Vaccines are scientifically tested, Einstein. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/basics/test-approve.html You don't have to intentionally infect someone for testing. You do need control groups to compare infection rates of vaccinated individuals to the unvaccinated before declaring a benefit. You're saying you'd just let them give you anything than?



    You do realize that this is what you've been doing right?

    There were tangible numbers regarding the ability of condoms to block bodily fluids and numerous studies (proper scientific mind you) regarding the ability of condoms to limit STD transmission. This was actually a much smaller leap logically than your claims regarding 13RW. Hilariously, a lot of the early and demonstrably false papers on AIDS were built on flimsy mathematical models and conjecture. Those got published also.

    Not exactly the same thing as A. assuming a group of individuals watched a TV show and B. assuming that a specific action was taken as a result. In this scenario, confirming that the individuals were even aware of the show let alone watched it in totality is critical.

    When you can produce hard numbers regarding an increased number of suicides among viewers of this show, let me know. Until then, take a seat.
    It's not my claim. That's where you are wrong. You keep insisting that this is my view versus your view. When it's the conclusion from 2 published empirical studies against your assertion.

    The only way your suggestion would work is to make it unethical. It's not possible to have control groups after the fact because they would have died. You cannot go ask the dead whether 13 Reasons Why influenced the decision. You cannot test the impact of not watching the show, because you don't know whether they would actually kill themselves.

    I repeat: the only way you suggest a research could be valid would be to let them view a potentially harmful show and see if they would die, with no intervention until they actually are dead.

    And once again, you're acting like there's no basis at all to form the hypothesis in the first place. The hypothesis could be formed because the first season broke almost every established guideline from the scientific consensus of mental health experts.
    Quote Originally Posted by WhatTheHell
    Voice of the truth here!! :(

  8. #183
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    by » Tue September 10th, 2019, 23:46

    Quote Originally Posted by Hejira View Post
    @clh_hilary I'm just observing your point of view and the agenda is jumping out quite obviously. You're trying to make your point clear with some aggressive examples and opinions while not even considering the other side of the story. That's all.
    So far, I have been the only one providing actual evidence, so forgive me for not listening to what is not being actually presented. The only things I have seen here are:

    a. assertions with absolutely nothing to support them;

    b. the rejection of published results from empirical research with the reasoning being they are not conducted in what would clearly be an unethical method.
    Quote Originally Posted by WhatTheHell
    Voice of the truth here!! :(

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    by » Wed September 11th, 2019, 00:08

    Quote Originally Posted by clh_hilary View Post
    It's not my claim. That's where you are wrong. You keep insisting that this is my view versus your view. When it's the conclusion from 2 published empirical studies against your assertion.

    The only way your suggestion would work is to make it unethical. It's not possible to have control groups after the fact because they would have died. You cannot go ask the dead whether 13 Reasons Why influenced the decision. You cannot test the impact of not watching the show, because you don't know whether they would actually kill themselves.

    I repeat: the only way you suggest a research could be valid would be to let them view a potentially harmful show and see if they would die, with no intervention until they actually are dead.

    And once again, you're acting like there's no basis at all to form the hypothesis in the first place. The hypothesis could be formed because the first season broke almost every established guideline from the scientific consensus of mental health experts.
    I never acted like there was no basis for a hypothesis, to the contrary you acted (aggressively) like you were presenting an inarguable scientific conclusion. Which, by your own admission, is impossible because the data being analyzed lacks key control elements.

    I never even argued that 13RW S01 couldn't be a problem in this way. In fact, I can see where it could be. Not so much for the suicide scene itself, but more the way the whole thing was romanticized as a way for the victim to have the final say on the bullies. The reality though is that data can be analyzed to make educated guesses, but that is all. No one can say conclusively that X people died, or for that matter that X people were saved by 13RW. Given the specifics available for analysis, even a scientifically credible cause and effect relationship would be unrealistic.

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    by » Wed September 11th, 2019, 01:33

    Also, it seems like there are better venues for this discussion.

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    by » Wed September 11th, 2019, 07:00

    All of this for a teenage show.

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    by » Wed September 11th, 2019, 09:30

    The mess in here Poor @BehindBreakaway accused of being on the same level as a Stalin supporter

    I also think the bad reviews are unjustified. Yes there are some weak points and yes the time jumps are annoying(especially since the present has this dark washed out vibe) but I thought it was better than S2. Some of the character development was a little out of line but whatever this didn't have a GOT build up.

    Cannot believe the Ani actress had to get off social media. People are freaking dumb how is it possible not being able to separate? Probably also due to the fact that a high percentage of teenagers is watching this but still

  13. #188
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    by » Wed September 11th, 2019, 12:16

    Quote Originally Posted by KEY9481 View Post
    All of this for a teenage show.
    At least I'm working towards a better week on that countdown of posters thing.

  14. #189
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    by » Wed September 11th, 2019, 21:42

    Quote Originally Posted by BeeBoy View Post
    The mess in here Poor @BehindBreakaway accused of being on the same level as a Stalin supporter

    I also think the bad reviews are unjustified. Yes there are some weak points and yes the time jumps are annoying(especially since the present has this dark washed out vibe) but I thought it was better than S2. Some of the character development was a little out of line but whatever this didn't have a GOT build up.

    Cannot believe the Ani actress had to get off social media. People are freaking dumb how is it possible not being able to separate? Probably also due to the fact that a high percentage of teenagers is watching this but still
    Thank you I stopped replying because I just don't care that much lol. I enjoyed the series
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    by » Sun September 15th, 2019, 13:49

    Oh my god, Ani is the worst. Patronising, manipulative bitch who judges everybody else on the daily yet is happy to have sex with a rapist.

    Four episodes left, have avoided all spoilers and I’m plumping for Ani as the killer - originally thought it would be Monty. Monty is absolutely despicable and I hope he gets a comeuppance. The scene between Clay and Tyler where Tyler told him everything was brilliantly moving.

    Not here for a Bryce redemption sorry, he was an awful person.

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    by » Sun September 15th, 2019, 13:59

    Quote Originally Posted by Thriller View Post
    Oh my god, Ani is the worst. Patronising, manipulative bitch who judges everybody else on the daily yet is happy to have sex with a rapist.

    Four episodes left, have avoided all spoilers and I’m plumping for Ani as the killer - originally thought it would be Monty. Monty is absolutely despicable and I hope he gets a comeuppance. The scene between Clay and Tyler where Tyler told him everything was brilliantly moving.

    Not here for a Bryce redemption sorry, he was an awful person.
    Lol funny how I have just finished the 9th episode and actually really like Ani's character and I enjoy the Bryce redemption.
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    by » Sun September 15th, 2019, 20:45

    Quote Originally Posted by WEBofDESIRE View Post
    @clh_hilary, the only wishful thinking is in your "studies". They are scientifically meaningless because results are based purely on the circumstance of time and not any direct links to 13RW. I could create a similar "study" when a new ice cream flavor is released.
    Basically.

    The way some people here behave like they're the reincarnation of Einstein and feel the need to lecture the rest of us because they've got an overpriced university degree and found 2 'studies' that support their opinion.

    Literally all of us have at least one degree and know how to read / conduct studies.

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    by » Mon September 16th, 2019, 16:05

    So Ani proved me wrong and came good in the end by trying to cover up for Alex and Jess. Loved Jess in this season and warmed to Clay and Justin more.

    Bryce’s beating by Zach and subsequent death was satisfying to watch. He deserved every bit of it and hadn’t changed deep down IMO, despite what he said on the tape.

    Monty was incredibly messed up and I feel a bit sad about his death but he also would’ve hurt a lot more people in his life after prison.

    This was a brilliant season, better than the second. It could’ve happily been the final one so I’ll be interested to see what happens in the fourth... how much more can these kids go through?!

  19. #194
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    by » Yesterday, 09:38

    I have finished watching this but I really am tired of this endless plot stretching. This season could have been done in 6 episodes. And now they want to keep stretching it... I guess TV series are really just not for me. At least not in this format
    I am the maniac, I am the ghoul
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