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Thread: Michael Jackson expose docu "Leaving Neverland"

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    by » Tue March 12th, 2019, 17:25

    @RayRay I completely understand why you believe them, I appreciate that you want to believe the victim. However you aren't replying to anyone who's pointing out all the lies and the facts from the documentary. The fact they say things took place when Michael was confirmed to be elsewhere etc. I want to know your opinions on all the lies that have been disputed and all the facts that you keep avoiding
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    by » Tue March 12th, 2019, 19:09

    Well basically the whole point of the MJ defenders is that MJ was found innocent by court & FBI etc but my issue with that is that the nature of the crime (if MJ did it) is very intricate and hard to prove. For all we know MJ has never penetrated the boys or was never penetrated by the boys, but he only touched and groped their private parts or made them touch his, which still would be sexual abuse. I imagine it is very hard to prove anything if no penetration or "marks" occured. Also we can forget other adult witnesses since Michael made sure to always sleep with the kids alone and never be seen by anyone else.

    Also yall keep downplaying this but it's a known phenomenon that power, status and money can greatly influence the outcome of a trial. Too many famous examples of that in recent times alone.

    The people who are taking the results of his trial as the absolute truth need to reevaluate that stance imo. It would be nice to have a source of unquestionable truth like that but reality plays another tune.
    Last edited by aRat; Tue March 12th, 2019 at 19:12.

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    by » Tue March 12th, 2019, 19:19

    That was quite a delusional rant from a-rat. He ignores the truth. I hope Wades wife realises what a fantasist he is. Wade is a washed up, dried out has been choreographer
    Last edited by Bazmedia; Tue March 12th, 2019 at 19:27.

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    by » Tue March 12th, 2019, 19:22

    Quote Originally Posted by aRat View Post
    Well basically the whole point of the MJ defenders is that MJ was found innocent by court & FBI etc but my issue with that is that the nature of the crime (if MJ did it) is very intricate and hard to prove. For all we know MJ has never penetrated the boys or was never penetrated by the boys, but he only touched and groped their private parts or made them touch his, which still would be sexual abuse. I imagine it is very hard to prove anything if no penetration or "marks" occured. Also we can forget other adult witnesses since Michael made sure to always sleep with the kids alone and never be seen by anyone else.

    Also yall keep downplaying this but it's a known phenomenon that power, status and money can greatly influence the outcome of a trial. Too many famous examples of that in recent times alone.

    The people who are taking the results of his trial as the absolute truth need to reevaluate that stance imo. It would be nice to have a source of unquestionable truth like that but reality plays another tune.
    The problem here is if any other artist was in his shoes no one would've questioned or discredited victims for almost 3 decades. 12% of victims actually report their abusers, even less of them actually win in court. And now imagine if abuser as a powerful millionaire with 100 of lawyers (including the one who was known for defending criminals like OJ) and you're alone on the other side.

    5 kids accused him of doing it. Who knows how many more were actually abused. And Mj's stans are hiding behind the law or even worse 'he didn't abuse Home Alone kid so all acusations must be false!!11'

    MJ could've killed someone and some people would've defended him anyway.

    Look how no one questioned for a second if Spacey or Weinstein did it, or even R Kelly... But when it comes to MJ...

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    by » Tue March 12th, 2019, 19:31

    The lies in the below link from Wades interview with Inside Edition in 2018 are valid in relation to the Leaving Neverland documentary -

    https://www.scribd.com/document/3801...Inside-Edition

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    by » Tue March 12th, 2019, 19:42

    Quote Originally Posted by aRat View Post
    Well basically the whole point of the MJ defenders is that MJ was found innocent by court & FBI etc but my issue with that is that the nature of the crime (if MJ did it) is very intricate and hard to prove. For all we know MJ has never penetrated the boys or was never penetrated by the boys, but he only touched and groped their private parts or made them touch his, which still would be sexual abuse. I imagine it is very hard to prove anything if no penetration or "marks" occured. Also we can forget other adult witnesses since Michael made sure to always sleep with the kids alone and never be seen by anyone else.

    Also yall keep downplaying this but it's a known phenomenon that power, status and money can greatly influence the outcome of a trial. Too many famous examples of that in recent times alone.

    The people who are taking the results of his trial as the absolute truth need to reevaluate that stance imo. It would be nice to have a source of unquestionable truth like that but reality plays another tune.
    So you say that we shouldn’t take the FBI documents and the result of the trial as factual? But we should take everything that Robson and Safechuck say as the Gospel?

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    by » Tue March 12th, 2019, 19:55

    Quote Originally Posted by biscuits View Post
    Think before you post.
    Bold statement coming from you.
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    by » Tue March 12th, 2019, 19:58

    Quote Originally Posted by biscuits View Post
    You’re one of those people who think Oprah represents morals and justice?

    She will do anything to make people like her.
    Really? A lot of people hate her right now and threaten her.
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    by » Tue March 12th, 2019, 20:06

    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBreakaway View Post
    @RayRay I completely understand why you believe them, I appreciate that you want to believe the victim. However you aren't replying to anyone who's pointing out all the lies and the facts from the documentary. The fact they say things took place when Michael was confirmed to be elsewhere etc. I want to know your opinions on all the lies that have been disputed and all the facts that you keep avoiding
    It's like what the MJ-fans say (in his support). No one remembers everything exactly. Just like everyone else. Ask me about a party from a few years ago and I might say it was celebrated before the actual birthday and someone else will say: "No, it wasn't." That's why I don't think these "lies" are important. Who cares if it was on Thursday or Saturday? What happened in the bedroom is important.
    Also, several "lies" were coming from people that didn't watch the documentary compeletely. Like "how can one mother be happy when MJ died, when her son told her after his death about the abuse?" Well, if you watched, he told her before he died that he didn't want to testify to help MJ because he was nasty. His mother didn't dare ask more but knew in her heart he was abused.
    But there is no use in trying to convince stans. So I stay away from that.
    This will not go away this time though. Times have changed. Some people will never believe there was more to MJ than just the kindness we love him for. Some people will be convinced later (maybe even years from now) that he really did molest those boys. When that time comes, I'm glad I gave them the benefit of the doubt.
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    by » Tue March 12th, 2019, 20:09

    Quote Originally Posted by Musicology View Post
    So you say that we shouldn’t take the FBI documents and the result of the trial as factual? But we should take everything that Robson and Safechuck say as the Gospel?
    No. All I am saying is to keep an open mind and not to take his verdict as the absolute truth.

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    by » Tue March 12th, 2019, 21:01

    a party from years ago is sth else than to remember rape that was going on for 7 YEARS on a daily basis. Wade Robson has changed dates, facts multiple times... it goes as far as he and his mother citing dates at Neverland when MJ wasn't even there.

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    by » Tue March 12th, 2019, 21:25

    Quote Originally Posted by RayRay View Post
    It's like what the MJ-fans say (in his support). No one remembers everything exactly. Just like everyone else. Ask me about a party from a few years ago and I might say it was celebrated before the actual birthday and someone else will say: "No, it wasn't." That's why I don't think these "lies" are important. Who cares if it was on Thursday or Saturday? What happened in the bedroom is important.
    Also, several "lies" were coming from people that didn't watch the documentary compeletely. Like "how can one mother be happy when MJ died, when her son told her after his death about the abuse?" Well, if you watched, he told her before he died that he didn't want to testify to help MJ because he was nasty. His mother didn't dare ask more but knew in her heart he was abused.
    But there is no use in trying to convince stans. So I stay away from that.
    This will not go away this time though. Times have changed. Some people will never believe there was more to MJ than just the kindness we love him for. Some people will be convinced later (maybe even years from now) that he really did molest those boys. When that time comes, I'm glad I gave them the benefit of the doubt.
    How are these lies "not important" when the dates the accuser said he was abused the accused wasn't even in the same country? This is not some random party you forget after 2 days, we're talking about sexual abuse here

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    by » Tue March 12th, 2019, 21:29

    ^ No one is questioning he slept with them though. MJ even admitted he slept with little boys. Why have alarm bells go off when someone comes near the bedroom or lock them when you are at home with just kids in your room?
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    by » Tue March 12th, 2019, 21:31

    Not just that. They said about being at awards shows with him, when he wasn't even there at the time. Those are very specific things, you don't forget the details of going to an awards show. And also from a survivors perspective you remember everything about the abuse. You can ignore it for years but you never forget things like that.

    I'm not here to say he's innocent or guilty, I just don't believe these particular guys.
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    by » Tue March 12th, 2019, 21:46

    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBreakaway View Post
    Not just that. They said about being at awards shows with him, when he wasn't even there at the time. Those are very specific things, you don't forget the details of going to an awards show. And also from a survivors perspective you remember everything about the abuse. You can ignore it for years but you never forget things like that.

    I'm not here to say he's innocent or guilty, I just don't believe these particular guys.
    +1 also how can we believe Robson when he said on 3 different occasions that the sexual abuse happened on the first night, changing to the 2nd night then changing it to one week later after the sleepovers started.

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    by » Tue March 12th, 2019, 21:49

    On cases like this, th dates are not the most important... Even in court.
    "Complaining is an advertisement for stupidity"

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    by » Tue March 12th, 2019, 22:25

    So it turns out I was wrong, 8 kids accused him, not 5 like I thought for years!

    I also had no idea that his private investigator is in jail now for threatening witnesses and destruction of evidences among other things!

    I only knew about his lawyer also later defending OJ Simpson!

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    by » Tue March 12th, 2019, 22:29

    Quote Originally Posted by RayRay View Post
    ^ No one is questioning he slept with them though. MJ even admitted he slept with little boys. Why have alarm bells go off when someone comes near the bedroom or lock them when you are at home with just kids in your room?
    Sleeping in the same bed as kids doesn't make him a pedophile, does it? Weird and strange, yes, but not necesarrily a pedophile. That's the only argument you Mj haters have. That he slept in the same beds as kids, so he must be a pedophile. You guys think sharing a bed with someone must mean that you must be having sex. What disgusting narrow minded viewpoint.

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    by » Tue March 12th, 2019, 22:53

    ^ I'm not a hater. I have all his CD's. I've seen him live in concert twice.
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    by » Tue March 12th, 2019, 23:15

    At the end of the day everyone is entitled to believe whatever party they choose to believe.
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    by » Wed March 13th, 2019, 01:14

    Why did he have alarms connected to his room? Because he’s Michael Jackson. One of the most targeted individuals to have ever lived. It’s a security measure.

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    by » Wed March 13th, 2019, 01:58

    Quote Originally Posted by RayRay View Post
    Bold statement coming from you.
    I haven’t personally offended anybody with a direct attack on them. I have talked only about the MJ allegations (nothing about anybody’s personal life and nothing about any other child abuse case). If somebody has been offended by something I said, it’s been unintentional and indirect, and I’ve tried my best to explain myself so people don’t feel offended. Everything I’ve said is about MJ allegation, never general statements about abuse victims.

    But to say directly ‘you should never have children because you will allow them be abused’ has got to be one of the most offensive and ignorant things I’ve read. It’s actually made me feel sick to come online, but I’ll leave it there. I should take a break from this place.

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    by » Wed March 13th, 2019, 02:42

    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBreakaway View Post
    Not just that. They said about being at awards shows with him, when he wasn't even there at the time. Those are very specific things, you don't forget the details of going to an awards show. And also from a survivors perspective you remember everything about the abuse. You can ignore it for years but you never forget things like that.

    I'm not here to say he's innocent or guilty, I just don't believe these particular guys.
    I think it’s easy to create false memories. He may have convinced himself he was at that awards show and has a whole story to go with it but his mind is playing tricks on him (or he could just be making it up too)

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    by » Wed March 13th, 2019, 02:42

    Quote Originally Posted by Bazmedia View Post
    +1 also how can we believe Robson when he said on 3 different occasions that the sexual abuse happened on the first night, changing to the 2nd night then changing it to one week later after the sleepovers started.
    Right. You will never forget the first time it happened.

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