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Thread: Michael Jackson expose docu "Leaving Neverland"

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    by » Sat June 29th, 2019, 18:27

    Yes. Being British I wasn’t necessarily invested in Oprah anyway. But I thought she had more journalistic integrity than this. I feel like had she questioned the merit of what was said from a place of neutrality it would have overall been a different story.

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    by » Sun June 30th, 2019, 18:59

    There is now documentation that Michael didn’t give the Safechucks a loan as a “gift” for giving depositions in his favour during the Chandler-case in 1993-94, as mama Safechuck pretty much says in the film: https://mobile.twitter.com/JaDversar...07486204395520

    A loan was given in 1992 and only reconvayed in 1997, when the Safechucks didn’t continue to pay the loan back. Everyone in this film (maybe except the grandma from the US version) has now been caught lying in the film. I fail to understand why they willfully would lie, if actual molestation had taken place.

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    by » Sun June 30th, 2019, 19:23

    Quote Originally Posted by Loveguru View Post
    i am forever angry at her for this
    I have cancelled her. First the Monique story, and then the MJ defamation and calling for his boycott... the woman should be ashamed of herself...

    but the media turned her into this monster that she is by making her seem like America's authority on what's true and fair.

    The woman has serious mental troubles if you ask me. She's a megalomaniac.

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    by » Wed July 17th, 2019, 23:09

    I feel like this will win some. :/
    I am not trying to seduce you... Would you like me to seduce you? Is that what you're trying to tell me?

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    by » Thu July 18th, 2019, 03:04

    5? Uh. Emmys will do anything for a bit of publicity
    3 months and I'm still sober, picked all my weeds but kept the flowers!

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    by » Sun July 21st, 2019, 22:46

    It's just vile at this point that a film about partially untrue statements about a deceased person, with the majority of the claims being unproven gets so much attention while films about actually proven guilty people get so little.

    I can already picture it when the MJ film is winning some awards and the people in stage will use their time to further trash him like "Finally the truth is out" or sth like that. Just vile. The state should sue the Television Academy.

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    by » Sun August 18th, 2019, 04:56

    So this short film is currently trending #LiesOfLeavingNeverland



    Everyone else has caught up with us then.

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    by » Sun August 18th, 2019, 05:47

    ^ There's actually two counter docs out! This one you have to pay to watch:

    EDIT: another one already came out in March.

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    by » Fri August 23rd, 2019, 18:41

    Quote Originally Posted by Blondini View Post
    So this short film is currently trending #LiesOfLeavingNeverland



    Everyone else has caught up with us then.
    I think that this rebuttal is the best yet!😊

    Chase The Truth is rather good, but I wish that they would include even more facts. It’s a nice introduction to the cases though.

    Neverland Aftermath is nice too: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2hkNPmpudpc

    A new YouTube documentary about the Chandler allegations is also on the way: https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...&v=MUYq7dhJkow

    The facts are finally getting through on Twitter, while the media mostly seems to avoid exposing Leaving Neverland. I hope that Taj’s documentary will be picked up by large tv networks or Netflix. Otherwise the media might ignore it.

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    by » Sun September 15th, 2019, 14:19


    What the hell???

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    by » Sun September 15th, 2019, 14:43

    Wow... Political correctness out of control.
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    by » Sun September 15th, 2019, 16:09

    I hope dan reed chokes on it. Only in America... can a fictional movie be awarded in the documentary category. So for all we know, The Blair Witch Project was a documentary as well.

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    by » Sun September 15th, 2019, 16:10

    Some of y'all just defend MJ way too hard. Also, the fact that a home was reconveyed without satisfaction of the note should be a huge red flag. These particular accusers have questionable credibility, sure, however that doesn't make their stories false automatically. This is a situation where you need to look at the facts the same way you would if MJ were a random nobody on the street, in which case I think prevailing opinions would be different.

    There are numerous patterns in MJ's behavior that are consistent with that of a serial pedophile. Why were these young boys always replaced with younger models when they came of age? Why did these "friendships" not continue in a meaningful way as the boys reached adulthood? If we are just talking about a case of peter pan syndrome, why were no young girls around (at least to the extent of these boys)?

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    by » Sun September 15th, 2019, 16:39

    @WEBofDESIRE their stories have a lot of incongruencies and false details. Those are facts. Don't know if MJ did something or not, but these guys are proven liars. Thus, the documentary is a farse, given the number of exposed lies it contains. Anyone else should be defended from accusations like these. The media keeps promoting this because they want to keep cashing in on his name.

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    by » Sun September 15th, 2019, 16:53

    Documentary =/= truth though.
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    by » Sun September 15th, 2019, 17:39

    @DnBLover, true that these accusers have provided no indisputable evidence. The flip side of that coin, is that when someone is acquitted of a crime they are not proven innocent, but merely presumed innocent due to the lack of evidence to prove guilt. My point wasn't so much that he was guilty, but just that too many that love his music refuse to see the situation at all. His behavior was beyond odd to say the least.

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    by » Sun September 15th, 2019, 19:50

    Quote Originally Posted by WEBofDESIRE View Post
    @DnBLover, true that these accusers have provided no indisputable evidence. The flip side of that coin, is that when someone is acquitted of a crime they are not proven innocent, but merely presumed innocent due to the lack of evidence to prove guilt. My point wasn't so much that he was guilty, but just that too many that love his music refuse to see the situation at all. His behavior was beyond odd to say the least.
    Odd behaviour is not something illegal or something to fabricate a story around. Why did the media not pick up Mariah allegedly urinating on her assistant or #Me2-ing her manager and bodyguards by running around in her home naked.

    His behaviour seemed odd to the outside... nobody knows who he was when there was no camera. Just because one can assume the worst doesn't make it a fact in reality.

    The story you were trying to spin of there being no girls is just what the media told you to think when there are tons of images and videos with girls, girls who also slept in his bedroom.

    Every MJ fan would agree with the notion that he was not normal and lived no normal life. But I think that a lot of that has to do with just how famous he was... he literally couldn't be around random people for the sole reason of him being out and about in public would stir mass hysteria among the public in that area. No other celebrity that we know today has or had that kind of restrictions. Ever since his 20s - when already was a legend in the entertainment industry due to his LONG career that began in 1969, he was surrounded by people who were selling him out and sold stories to tabloids.

    There are dozens upon dozens of former employees out there being paid for stories about him.

    My biggest problem with the whole documentary is not that they exposed his struggles, my problem is the amount of lying that is going on and which nobody in the media is addressing.

    If he really were a pedophile and did all the things that those two individuals claim he was doing to them, there would be some sort of proof, also their stories wouldn't have evolved and changed as much as they did. I don't find them convincing for the sole reason of the heavy editing that was going on in the documentary and the lies that were exposed.

    If you do not remember something, just say you do not remember it... don't invent a story which can be proven wrong so easily.

    The fact that especially the two individuals in the film have never filed a criminal case, but only filed a civil one for money is so odd to me. The fact that all of their cases have been thrown out of court with Robson case even be laughed at by the judge speaks louder than the lies that Robson whistled.

    Also why are the parents always so deranged and dubious? I mean what are they hiding? Even that Arvizo mother... all she had to do in 2005 in her court case was to appear sane and sad... and she couldn't even do that.

    All that Jordan Chandler's dad had to do, was being sad and appear mentally sane. But... according to the phone snipped we have, he literally said that all he wants is milking him dry... like literally... he sad that.

    All that Dan Reed had to do, was fact check his clients stories... and he couldn't even do that and for every lie that was exposed, he told a new one, going as far as testifying on behalf of Safechuck and Robson, like it suddenly became his story... and well... oh well... it somehow is his story now.

    All of which Oprah had to do was talking about abuse in a sane and sincere way... and not calling for the GP to take out their pitchforks and lynch a black man. I will never forget how self-assured she was and how smug and how deranged and condescending she was. What a snake and utter sensationalist. All she saw were those $$ signs too. She didn't care one bit about the truth... she wanted to tell HER truth and slid into the conversation as if someone had asked her. What a tool. She is dead to me.

    I find it sad that you were falling for all of this by blaming him - the victim - who brought it onto himself by being so "odd".

    Reminds me of Jesse Williams' speech about racism:

    But freedom is somehow always conditional here. “You’re free,” they keep telling us. But she would have been alive if she hadn’t acted so… free.

    translated for Michael's case:

    But innocence is somehow always conditional here. "You're innocent", they keep telling us. But he would have been more innocent if he hadn't acted so... oddly.

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    by » Sun September 15th, 2019, 22:28

    That's quite a wall of words there @stevyy.

    There were girls around Neverland, but his chosen ones always seemed to be boys. There is countless video of him jet-setting with this boy or that one right at his side. And I agree that the parents should be ashamed to have ever put their children in this position to begin with, but they liked the money and perks that came with it. I can remember thinking this was ridiculous when I was only 10 or 11 years old.

    It's best to look at these situations with the celebrity removed. MJ was a 30+ year old man that wanted the constant companionship of prepubescent boys. That in itself is so absurd that it makes allegations against him much easier to believe. But, like you said, oddities aren't illegal. And since most victims of rape (especially m/m rape where the victims do not identify as gay in adulthood) rarely come forward and often lie out of shame/embarrassment, it's difficult for evidence to exist. Although, if all this had happened a decade or two later, more things would have popped up IMO.

    We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

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    by » Mon September 16th, 2019, 07:26

    Give it a few years, once the fan anger and reaction die down, some things will be clearer

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    by » Mon September 16th, 2019, 12:23

    The thing is, his image is tarnish forever at this point, no matter how much lying going on, people who watch that documentary believes it. I don't know how the Jacksons plan to counterattack that documentary, if they plan to do it, they have to do a monumental campaign.

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    by » Mon September 16th, 2019, 13:36

    Imo an adult can talk about what happened to him or what someone did to him when he was 11 or 12 (for example), and it is very likely that he will get certain timelines or facts wrong. That doesn’t mean they’re lying. In MJ’s case, if its all about the money, why is it that no woman or girl has come out to accuse him of sexual abuse or predatory behavior?

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    by » Mon September 16th, 2019, 14:22

    Quote Originally Posted by SpyVsSpy View Post
    Imo an adult can talk about what happened to him or what someone did to him when he was 11 or 12 (for example), and it is very likely that he will get certain timelines or facts wrong. That doesn’t mean they’re lying. In MJ’s case, if its all about the money, why is it that no woman or girl has come out to accuse him of sexual abuse or predatory behavior?
    the narrative is that he was sexually abusing the kids up until they reached a certain age... however... in Safechuck's case... he is off by years and years... when he said, he had sex in the train station which was built 3-4 years after the timeline he was initially giving.

    What is more credible... that he was simply mistaken when it occured or that the whole thing was a lie?

    When it comes to Robson, he described encounters with Jackson when either he himself wasn't there or when MJ wasn't even in the country.

    If times and places are not important in these cases... then anyone can claim anything at this point.

    I mean when you are a murder suspect, but it turns out you weren't even in the country at the time that it occured, doesn't it say that you are innocent?

    In Robson's case... he has edited his story so many times over that nobody knows what the truth is anymore, not even he himself... I mean when he and his family were visiting Mount Everest... Robson was claiming that the abuse started then and there... bc MJ sent his family on that trip to get him alone... but it now turns out that Robson's sister was also at Neverland and also slept in his bedroom... so what is the truth?

    When Safechuck and the whole documentary claim that young boys were replaced after hitting a young age how could it be that he was abused as a teenager at 15 or 16 years of age when that train station was completed and opened?

    It is a farce.

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    by » Mon September 16th, 2019, 14:27

    Quote Originally Posted by WEBofDESIRE View Post

    We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
    I think this is sad... bc when you have a case in which someone was a vivid defender of the accused for decades and then miraculously remembered that he was actually raped for years on end bc he became a father himself, I find this the most ridiculous story ever. In 2005, Robson was already in his 20s. He could have brought him to justice and save the Arvizos and give them solace... however... he didn't... how does that fit in one's consciousness?

    Kids who were raped show signs of emotional distress. Robson must be one of those cases of people who were not phased by the occasional raping... well.. until he got money problems of course.

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    by » Mon September 16th, 2019, 15:19

    Quote Originally Posted by stevyy View Post
    I think this is sad... bc when you have a case in which someone was a vivid defender of the accused for decades and then miraculously remembered that he was actually raped for years on end bc he became a father himself, I find this the most ridiculous story ever. In 2005, Robson was already in his 20s. He could have brought him to justice and save the Arvizos and give them solace... however... he didn't... how does that fit in one's consciousness?

    Kids who were raped show signs of emotional distress. Robson must be one of those cases of people who were not phased by the occasional raping... well.. until he got money problems of course.
    This kind of rape (statutory) can be consensual even though the victim is not of age to consent. A lot of times this will go unnoticed, it's not as traumatic as a forced assault, at least initially. Most of the victims are groomed to think they have a "special relationship" with the pedo, thus the psychological problems generally start after the victim is spurned (replaced with a new and younger victim). Why most assault victims choose to never come forward or do so years, often decades later, is a valid question. Though in the books I've read regarding the Catholic church, most of the victims are heavily coached to believe that any discovery of the relationship will effectively end the victims life along with that of the pedo.

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