User Tag List

View Poll Results: Should LGBT issues be taught in school from a young age?

Voters
14. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    12 85.71%
  • No

    2 14.29%
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 61

Thread: #HardTalk: Should LGBT issues be taught in schools from a young age?

  1. #26
    Wayne's Avatar
    Legend
    Join Date
    07 Sep 2006
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    54,841
    Mentioned
    310 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

  2. #27
    CrazyCrazy's Avatar
    Legend
    Join Date
    06 Jan 2008
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    53,697
    Mentioned
    70 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    by » Sun March 24th, 2019, 16:53

    Quote Originally Posted by aRat View Post
    Also very interesting that the majority of US inmates are black people when they are only ~13% of the total population and that black people get harsher sentences for smaller crimes (I was literally so shocked when I once read an article of a black woman getting like 20 or 30 years in prison for stealing a TV... for a damn TV).

    But, but I thought slavery was long abolished?!? We see you "land of the free!!!"
    So you’ve never considered that black people do actually commit more crime in general? I’ll have to locate those official sources but you are right black people only account for a relatively small fraction of the population yet are responsible for more than 50% of the crime, there is nothing racist about stating those official statistics.

    Can you link me to this article please? I’m curious to look at that.

    Your last sentence is totally ridiculous, so you think black people are slaves? That sounds pretty racist to me and tells me you must think very little of black folk and their accomplishments.

  3. #28
    aRat's Avatar
    Manager
    Join Date
    06 Feb 2018
    Location
    Janet's neck
    Posts
    4,826
    Mentioned
    118 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    by » Sun March 24th, 2019, 17:20

    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyCrazy View Post
    So you’ve never considered that black people do actually commit more crime in general? I’ll have to locate those official sources but you are right black people only account for a relatively small fraction of the population yet are responsible for more than 50% of the crime, there is nothing racist about stating those official statistics.

    Can you link me to this article please? I’m curious to look at that.

    Your last sentence is totally ridiculous, so you think black people are slaves? That sounds pretty racist to me and tells me you must think very little of black folk and their accomplishments.
    Did you even read my comment? I am obviously mocking the ridiculously high incarnation rates and unfair lengthy sentences black people are given in the US. It makes zero sense that a group of people who compromise only a tiny fraction of the general population to compromise the majority of prison inmates.

    It's just a way for racist America to continue getting free labour from black people inside prisons after they abolished slavery.
    The virtue of stanning talent & having qualitea taste: DUA LIPA ♪ RIHANNA ♪ MADONNA
    #NO DUSTY DIVAS ALLOWED

  4. #29
    heppolo's Avatar
    Legend
    Join Date
    17 May 2009
    Location
    interchangeable
    Posts
    25,661
    Mentioned
    71 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    by » Tue March 26th, 2019, 21:23

    I am against it for countless reasons.
    Waffles are checked cookies

  5. #30
    heppolo's Avatar
    Legend
    Join Date
    17 May 2009
    Location
    interchangeable
    Posts
    25,661
    Mentioned
    71 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    by » Tue March 26th, 2019, 21:24

    Quote Originally Posted by aRat View Post
    Did you even read my comment? I am obviously mocking the ridiculously high incarnation rates and unfair lengthy sentences black people are given in the US. It makes zero sense that a group of people who compromise only a tiny fraction of the general population to compromise the majority of prison inmates.

    It's just a way for racist America to continue getting free labour from black people inside prisons after they abolished slavery.
    The sole existence of private prisons is just putting the concept of capitalism over humanity.
    Waffles are checked cookies

  6. #31
    Preyoncé's Avatar
    Legend
    Join Date
    14 Feb 2006
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    26,326
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    by » Wed March 27th, 2019, 05:04

    I’m all for it. You lose all rights when you decide to do something illegal that is worth the death penalty.
    Stealing a car isn’t but murdering someone is worthy. There are much more intriquites, like tangible proof (video etc) but how it gets implemented is not for me to say.

    But basically, I would love it back.
    | Ciara | Beyoncé | Janet | Toni | Kelly R | Leona | Tinashe | Whitney | Brandy | Monica | Tevin | Mariah | Britney | Tamia |

  7. #32
    Serby's Avatar
    Legend
    Join Date
    19 Jan 2011
    Location
    Halliwell Manor
    Posts
    37,329
    Mentioned
    25 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    by » Wed March 27th, 2019, 08:51

    Quote Originally Posted by aRat View Post
    Did you even read my comment? I am obviously mocking the ridiculously high incarnation rates and unfair lengthy sentences black people are given in the US. It makes zero sense that a group of people who compromise only a tiny fraction of the general population to compromise the majority of prison inmates.

    It's just a way for racist America to continue getting free labour from black people inside prisons after they abolished slavery.
    It's a modern day slavery and should be called that way imo.

    Thanks for saying what I was about to say.
    be kind to every kind

  8. #33
    ludichris's Avatar
    Superstar
    Join Date
    23 Nov 2010
    Location
    London
    Posts
    5,406
    Mentioned
    24 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    by » Wed March 27th, 2019, 13:39

    As far as calling prison work slavery, it isn't if they have cost the taxpayer on average $31,000 each year that they are locked up! Why not see it as a way of paying off their debt to society? That's what they are doing.

  9. #34
    Serby's Avatar
    Legend
    Join Date
    19 Jan 2011
    Location
    Halliwell Manor
    Posts
    37,329
    Mentioned
    25 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    by » Wed March 27th, 2019, 15:07

    That's rather naive. Private prisons need to fill up their quotas for profit of the government and prison owners, with close to zero effort to reduce 'repeating offenders'.

    Just because they waste tax money, doesnt mean it's any better.
    be kind to every kind

  10. #35
    heppolo's Avatar
    Legend
    Join Date
    17 May 2009
    Location
    interchangeable
    Posts
    25,661
    Mentioned
    71 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    by » Wed March 27th, 2019, 17:00

    Quote Originally Posted by ludichris View Post
    As far as calling prison work slavery, it isn't if they have cost the taxpayer on average $31,000 each year
    How do we know this figure is entirely correct and not some inflated number by the prison execs?
    Waffles are checked cookies

  11. #36
    aRat's Avatar
    Manager
    Join Date
    06 Feb 2018
    Location
    Janet's neck
    Posts
    4,826
    Mentioned
    118 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    by » Wed March 27th, 2019, 17:55

    Quote Originally Posted by ludichris View Post
    As far as calling prison work slavery, it isn't if they have cost the taxpayer on average $31,000 each year that they are locked up! Why not see it as a way of paying off their debt to society? That's what they are doing.
    What kinda argument is that? Slaves back then also had to be fed and needed somewhere to sleep. Does that mean that the slave owners were in the right to keep them under the pretense that the slaves are "paying off their dept" for getting food and shelter?

  12. #37
    Wayne's Avatar
    Legend
    Join Date
    07 Sep 2006
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    54,841
    Mentioned
    310 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    by » Wed March 27th, 2019, 21:13

    Quote Originally Posted by ludichris View Post
    As far as calling prison work slavery, it isn't if they have cost the taxpayer on average $31,000 each year that they are locked up! Why not see it as a way of paying off their debt to society? That's what they are doing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Serby View Post
    That's rather naive. Private prisons need to fill up their quotas for profit of the government and prison owners, with close to zero effort to reduce 'repeating offenders'.

    Just because they waste tax money, doesnt mean it's any better.
    Restorative justice in Norway is the best prison system in the world - Norway has an incarceration rate of 75 per 100,000 vs. 707 per 100,000 for the US. In Norway, the prisoners do work whilst inside - the purpose of this is to teach them new skills, whilst giving back to their community, ensuring they are fully rehabilitated in time for release. This supports the lowest re-offending rate of any western nation in the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by aRat View Post
    What kinda argument is that? Slaves back then also had to be fed and needed somewhere to sleep. Does that mean that the slave owners were in the right to keep them under the pretense that the slaves are "paying off their dept" for getting food and shelter?
    There are very key differences between what I interpret ludichris is suggesting and what you're comparing it to.

  13. #38
    Serby's Avatar
    Legend
    Join Date
    19 Jan 2011
    Location
    Halliwell Manor
    Posts
    37,329
    Mentioned
    25 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    by » Thu March 28th, 2019, 02:15

    ^ not when you take into account that BIPOC get incarcerated at way higher rates then whites, and for crimes than white people otherwise get away with, weed being one of the biggest ones. Especially considering that weed is now legal in many states, yet that people are not being released nor getting repayed for the time unjustly spent in prison, yet how the white people profit the most off the new weed business.

    We also know that crime rates are correlated (and to an extent caused) by poverty and as one group moves away from it, so does crime reduce. But at the same time, with criminal justice system being so racist, it is indeed just a continuation of slavery under the capitalism (ven if it also includes white people too).

    So I completely get aRat's comparison. Just because somethings costs tax money, doesn't mean it is not slavery (doesn't mean it is either). Ludi's argument has no value in this discussion as it doesn't affect anything. But please share where are the differences iyo?
    Last edited by Serby; Thu March 28th, 2019 at 02:21.
    be kind to every kind

  14. #39
    bm08's Avatar
    Legend
    Join Date
    07 Apr 2013
    Posts
    12,572
    Mentioned
    120 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    by » Sun May 19th, 2019, 17:11

    I am unsure how I feel about the death penalty. I guess it's hard to be universal about it. Maybe in the rarest of circumstances it could be invoked.

  15. #40
    Wayne's Avatar
    Legend
    Join Date
    07 Sep 2006
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    54,841
    Mentioned
    310 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    by » Mon May 20th, 2019, 19:51



    UKMIX has spoken and we are almost 73% against the death penalty, which reflects the changing values of society, particularly here in the UK; a 2015 survey found that for the first time in its history, the UK was more against the death penalty than for it - in stark contrast to a national survey in 1983 which found that 75% of the country was in favour of it!

    Future of Working - a social blog - wrote the following about the pros and cons of capital punishment and it makes for interesting reading...

    List of Advantages of Death Penalty

    1. It deters bad people to commit heinous crimes.

    One reason supporters of the capital punishment are for death penalty is its effectiveness as a crime deterrent. According to the advocates for death sentencing, potential criminals will be scared to suffer such harsh punishment and as a result, they will be hesitant to commit crimes like rape and murder. In fact, for them, it is the greatest deterrent of criminal acts. If an offender commits a crime that is punishable by death and gets executed, this will be known by the public, including those who are potential criminals. For fear of suffering the same plight, they will be discouraged to commit crimes.

    2. It is what hardened criminals deserve.

    Some of the crimes that are under capital punishment include murder and rape, depending on the country or state legalizing the practice. For pro-death penalty, there are criminals who are repeat offenders and not scared to rape and murder again, knowing they will only be imprisoned. These types of people and those who cannot be transformed should be put to death to project the majority.

    3. The government need not spend for criminals who are murderers and such.

    If there will be no death penalty, criminals who have committed grave offenses will only get life sentences and stay in prison. With the increasing number of incarcerated individuals, the government will be spending more and more on food and health care of these inmates. According to some critics, spending for people committing heinous crimes is impractical and a waste of taxpayers’ money.

    4. It reduces the number of committed crimes.

    People who are for death penalty posit that without it, the number of major crimes like murder and homicide will escalate since bad elements will not be afraid to do whatever they want., from dealing drugs to killing other people. Without harsh punishments for their offenses, criminals will be taking advantage of weaker people and victims.

    5. It is humane, clean and safe.

    Advocates for the death penalty claim that with lethal injection being practiced by more states and countries over other forms of death sentence executions, it is the better option. Death by lethal injection is not as barbaric as hanging or firing squad that can be messy and more painful.

    List of Disadvantages of Death Penalty

    1. It is not a crime deterrent.

    Critics argue that the death penalty does not really deter criminals from committing offenses. This is because there are criminals who suffer from mental illnesses and a death sentence will not be able to prevent them from doing bad things they cannot control without proper medication.

    2. It can result to punishing the wrong people.

    The legal systems in most countries, even in the U.S. have flaws. There are many instances where innocent people are sent to jail and convicted of crimes they have not committed just like the case of a man who was imprisoned for 30 years for rape. If all people who are convicted will be executed, mistakes will be made and many people will be put to death through legal injection even if they do not deserve to be.

    3. It costs the government too much money.

    Critics of death penalty contend the view of supporters that feeding the inmates is more expensive than death penalty. On the contrary, the drugs used in lethal injection and other expenses related to the execution are more costly.

    4. It can cause depression and feelings of guilt on people.

    One of the disadvantages of this practice is the reality that some of the people who have been involved in the process suffer from depression out of guilt from having to end another person’s life. Some of this people end up committing suicide and others have to suffer living the remaining years of their lives tormented with the thought. According to a former executioner, there are many people who have participated in executions whose lives were later destroyed. Some turned to drugs and alcohol to feel better.

    5. It is not humane and cannot be undone.

    There was an incident where a person who underwent lethal injection did not die right away and it took more than 30 minutes for him to die from a heart attack. This was traumatic not only for the person being executed but also for the people who witnessed the incident since they saw the man gasping for air and trying to stand up. For people who are against death penalty, this is not a humane thing to do. Moreover, they say that if a criminal is executed and after the execution, a new piece of evidence comes out that would have proven the person’s innocence, he or she can never be brought back to life anymore.

  16. #41
    Wayne's Avatar
    Legend
    Join Date
    07 Sep 2006
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    54,841
    Mentioned
    310 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    by » Mon May 20th, 2019, 20:05



    #HardTalk - should LGBT issues be taught in education from a young age?

    The name is Andrew Moffat and he is an Assistant Head Teacher in a British primary school called Birmingham's Parkland Community School. In 2014, Andrew resigned from a school after complaints from parents that Andrew was teaching children - and I quote - "that it's okay to be gay". He moved to another school and in 2018, he launched a now infamous policy called "No Outsiders" - a policy designed to promote diversity in a school where 750 students reside, 99% of which are Muslim.

    The policy was initially supported by the Head Teacher and was formally launched; however, it was met with huge backlash from the local community, and after daily protests from parents, it was dropped. An inspection by the education regular Ofsted would find that there were no issues with what was being taught but that it remained the decision of the school as to whether it should be included in their curriculum. The school explained that they would drop the policy following protests but that they'd revisit it a year later.

    Fast forward to April 2019 and the House of Lords have no announced that teaching of LGBT relationships will become mandatory for all British primary and secondary schools from April 2020 onwards - a huge step forward for LGBT equality in Britain. However, the protesters remain and a significant portion of Birmingham's communities remain steadfastly against the introduction of LGBT education into the curriculum - they cite their right as parents to teach their children in their own way and their rights afforded to them under protection assigned to those who follow religion. To these parents, the introduction of education on LGBT issues is a disgrace.

    So UKMIX - what do you feel? Should LGBT issues be taught to children in schools from a young age, or should these issues not be introduced until a later date in life? Or should the education of children on LGBT issues be left to parents and guardians? Surely children should be learning about mathematics and science? Or should social issues like LGBT relationships be introduced from a young age?

    By the way, Andrew Moffat has just been shortlisted in the category of "World's Best Teacher" by an educational awards body.

  17. #42
    RayRay's Avatar
    Legend
    Join Date
    13 Nov 2011
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    14,534
    Mentioned
    111 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    by » Mon May 20th, 2019, 20:10

    Of course children should know about it. I teach at a primary school and all the kids know I'm gay. I have noticed over the years when they leave our school and get new friends, how differently those friends react when they hear I am gay.
    My personal chart new female singer... at #1 - Click here

  18. #43
    Wayne's Avatar
    Legend
    Join Date
    07 Sep 2006
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    54,841
    Mentioned
    310 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    by » Mon May 20th, 2019, 20:14

    Quote Originally Posted by RayRay View Post
    Of course children should know about it. I teach at a primary school and all the kids know I'm gay. I have noticed over the years when they leave our school and get new friends, how differently those friends react when they hear I am gay.
    But Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights protects freedom of thought, conscience and religion - surely a person's right to their religion and raising their children in line with their religion is worthy of consideration?

  19. #44
    RayRay's Avatar
    Legend
    Join Date
    13 Nov 2011
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    14,534
    Mentioned
    111 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    by » Mon May 20th, 2019, 21:08

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne View Post
    But Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights protects freedom of thought, conscience and religion - surely a person's right to their religion and raising their children in line with their religion is worthy of consideration?
    They can raise them in line with their religion at home. I teach at a Catcholic school. I also have muslim children in my class. School teaches children, parents raise them.
    My personal chart new female singer... at #1 - Click here

  20. #45
    Rihab's Avatar
    Legend
    Join Date
    18 Oct 2010
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    18,921
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    by » Mon May 20th, 2019, 21:20

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne View Post
    But Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights protects freedom of thought, conscience and religion - surely a person's right to their religion and raising their children in line with their religion is worthy of consideration?
    I don't see how this new law violates Article 10? You can still teach your kids to be hateful, ignorant bigots at home, you just don't get to decide what they learn at school. I mean what's next, we strike the big bang and evolution off the curriculum again because some fanatics disagree with it?

    If these kids don't learn about stuff like this at home, they need to find out about it in school so they can make up their mind and come to their own conclusions. If this is done properly, no kid is ever forced to adopt a certain ideology, they just learn about different ideologies in a science-based and unbiased way and then decide for themselves. They aren't fed a fixed worldview, they're equipped with the toolbox to build their own.

    Freedom of thought, conscience and religion is not just for parents, but for their kids as well. Your kids are not your property, you don't get to control their thoughts and what or who they believe in.

  21. #46
    DnBLover's Avatar
    Legend
    Join Date
    21 Dec 2009
    Location
    PT-NO
    Posts
    14,923
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    by » Mon May 20th, 2019, 21:28

    Not sure what there is to discuss. If you're gonna have sexual education you should talk about it. The end.
    I am the maniac, I am the ghoul
    I'm in the shadows in the corners of my room

  22. #47
    Thriller's Avatar
    Legend
    Join Date
    12 Dec 2003
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    77,085
    Mentioned
    145 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    by » Mon May 20th, 2019, 21:40

    Religion has a lot to answer for when it comes to this sort of thing.

    A lot of the non-religion based resistance to this is based on misconceptions - some people think the act of gay or lesbian sex will be described to primary age children, some people think schools are "sexualising" children at a young age and some people think schools are "promoting being gay". In fact, even after the curriculum changes in 2020, sex education still won't be compulsory in primary schools - only healthy relationships will, which is what most schools already teach. Primary school children are only learning what a healthy relationship consists of, what it doesn't, and that this can be between different or same-sex relationships. Pupils are taught about puberty in science in UKS2, which has been the case for years, and then most schools give Year 6 some form of sex education, which is again mostly about bodily changes.

    There are lots of fiction books out for children as young as 5 which subtly touch upon the concept of two mothers or two fathers. It's ridiculous how the media and groups of outraged parents (who don't even know what they're outraged about) can whip up such a frenzy about nothing. We all know you can't turn a child gay, just as much as not teaching a child about same-sex relationships will make them straight.

  23. #48
    menime123's Avatar
    Legend
    Join Date
    01 May 2005
    Posts
    18,265
    Mentioned
    93 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    by » Mon May 20th, 2019, 22:05

    I’ve followed the Birmingham school thing for months casually and I genuinely don’t understand their points of view. At all. As @Thriller says, I do think a lot of it is misconception, a lack of understand and based on something I read today - people jumping on the bandwagon.

    As a large majority of us are LGBTQ+ I think we all recognise the value of having something like this in place. Representation is incredibly important and as a group with full legal equality, marriage and adoption rights we shouldn’t be shamed back into a corner when it comes to teaching the next generation about tolerance and acceptance.

    The Birmingham protest thing is based - imo - on homophobia. A parent doesn’t have the right to dictate what a school teaches, or which parts of society their children are introduced to. A parent has a right to decide where and how their child is educated based on the curriculums taught, but they can’t decide what that curriculum should then be.

    In terms of raising your children how you want and in line with your religious views, I went to Catholic School for 16 years: playgroup at 2 right the way through to 6th form at 18, all in the same 3 buildings built in a row, with a church on the end. From the age of 4 to 11, we had mandatory mass once every 2 weeks. Then we had mandatory RE at GCSE, where we studied a gospel for 2 years, and a compulsory one week RE lesson in 6th form. Being taught something doesn’t make you what you are taught. I was gay and I knew it, and 2 years of Mark’s bloody gospel wasn’t changing that.

    So kids learning some people have two mummies or two daddies, or had a mummy that turned into a daddy is nothing more than social education. Sometimes I think that whilst parents always want ‘better’ for their kids, they have a hard time when it happens for fear of ‘getting left behind’.
    SLOW DOWN PAPI... NO MEN IN ME.

  24. #49
    KEY9481's Avatar
    Superstar
    Join Date
    11 Aug 2014
    Posts
    5,728
    Mentioned
    41 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    by » Mon May 20th, 2019, 22:41

    Quote Originally Posted by RayRay View Post
    School teaches children, parents raise them.
    As a teacher myself, I find this statement to be - unfortunately - less and less true...now it looks like we actually have to do both. School is treated like a fast food service, so we better deliver or God forbid...This generation of parents really is the worst but eh.

  25. #50
    theMathematician's Avatar
    Personal Assistant
    Join Date
    31 May 2018
    Location
    Styria, Austria
    Posts
    1,091
    Mentioned
    25 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    by » Tue May 21st, 2019, 01:22

    You're probably referring to this scenario, right?


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •