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  1. #151
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    by » Mon October 21st, 2019, 10:44

    Having received my 3 Seventies books I only have one negative issue to feedback on in respect of the Singles book.

    Like the previous Top 40 books these too have many of the 'frozen' year end charts under the wrong date. The 'frozen' chart always fell in the week between Christmas and New Year, and although it is the week ending dates in the book remember that these charts back then were first announced on a Tuesday.

    I actually have a few Record Mirror charts from the paper at the time for a few of the years and according to these at least the following year end 'frozen charts are wrong, 1970 it was the chart with Clive Dunn moving to number 2 that should be the 'frozen' carried over chart , 1971 it should be the chart with the New Seekers at number 4 that was the 'frozen' carried over chart, 1974 it should be the chart with the Wombles at number 2 that was the 'frozen' carried over chart.

    These are the 3 years I have the actual Record Mirror chart pages from at the time but I assume that some other years in the Seventies chart book for Singles will have much the same date error chart in the book for 'frozen' charts.

    The important thing here to remember is that these charts were announced on the preceding Tuesday to the week ending chart date and if you use this you can clearly see which charts are miss-dated as the 'frozen' chart.

  2. #152
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    by » Mon October 21st, 2019, 15:36

    Quote Originally Posted by MrTibbs View Post
    Having received my 3 Seventies books I only have one negative issue to feedback on in respect of the Singles book.

    Like the previous Top 40 books these too have many of the 'frozen' year end charts under the wrong date. The 'frozen' chart always fell in the week between Christmas and New Year, and although it is the week ending dates in the book remember that these charts back then were first announced on a Tuesday.

    I actually have a few Record Mirror charts from the paper at the time for a few of the years and according to these at least the following year end 'frozen charts are wrong, 1970 it was the chart with Clive Dunn moving to number 2 that should be the 'frozen' carried over chart , 1971 it should be the chart with the New Seekers at number 4 that was the 'frozen' carried over chart, 1974 it should be the chart with the Wombles at number 2 that was the 'frozen' carried over chart.

    These are the 3 years I have the actual Record Mirror chart pages from at the time but I assume that some other years in the Seventies chart book for Singles will have much the same date error chart in the book for 'frozen' charts.

    The important thing here to remember is that these charts were announced on the preceding Tuesday to the week ending chart date and if you use this you can clearly see which charts are miss-dated as the 'frozen' chart.
    The three years you highlight - 1970, 1971 and 1974 - are years where the new chart was announced prior to Christmas (21/12/70, 19/12/71 and 24/12/74) but the corresponding chart wasn't published in Music Week until after Christmas. Those new charts are officially dated as being for 02/01/71, 01/01/72 and 04/01/75. As a result, at least as far as is published in Music Week (and on the OCC website as the same charts are in their database) Clive Dunn had a frozen week at number 6, The New Seekers were stuck at number 32 and the Wombles wobbled at number 5!

    I realised something was a bit strange with the second (New Seekers) chart many years ago when having long thought that 'I'd Like To Teach The World To Sing' had moved 32-4-4-1 I saw it listed (in the 1992 edition of Top 40 Charts if I recall) as 32-32-4-1. My original source had been the first Tony Jasper "Top Twenty" book which I bought in 1976. Tony's source was Record Mirror, the Top 40 Charts book was Music Week. I can only assume that Record Mirror were able to publish the new chart in the correct week whereas Music Week published the chart a week later and as a consequence the chart from the previous week was considered as being frozen.

  3. #153
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    by » Tue October 22nd, 2019, 17:55

    The Radio 2 Beatles web site contains a Beatles Quiz. One of the questions is,

    Q Which song provided The Beatles with their first No.1 in the official UK singles chart?

    A The Beatles’ third single ‘From me to you’ topped the official UK singles chart for 7 weeks in May/June 1963. Their previous single ‘Please please me’ had topped other unofficial versions of the UK singles chart.

    So there you are. And that's official.

  4. #154
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    by » Tue October 22nd, 2019, 22:48

    Quote Originally Posted by Robbie View Post
    The three years you highlight - 1970, 1971 and 1974 - are years where the new chart was announced prior to Christmas (21/12/70, 19/12/71 and 24/12/74) but the corresponding chart wasn't published in Music Week until after Christmas. Those new charts are officially dated as being for 02/01/71, 01/01/72 and 04/01/75. As a result, at least as far as is published in Music Week (and on the OCC website as the same charts are in their database) Clive Dunn had a frozen week at number 6, The New Seekers were stuck at number 32 and the Wombles wobbled at number 5!
    Record Mirror issue dated 1 January 1972 shows the chart with a date of 25 Dec - because the note underneath says so.
    See the scan below.
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/rwws3eao4z...irror.jpg?dl=0
    This always confused me, this particular chart, as they never did show the positions for 1 January (as they claimed they would) and instead the next chart carried straight on from this one.

    However 2 Jan 1971 matches the chart for Top 40 Charts showing a 'frozen' week before.
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/u415zlhyh1...irror.jpg?dl=0

    The 1975 January chart in Music Week shows 'based on sales for the two weeks to 20 December' below the chart
    See scan
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/g9sx4151x6...0Week.jpg?dl=0
    Again, this means there is an assumption that the frozen chart would be the previous one - chart sales period ends 20 Dec, compiled 23 Dec, published 24 Dec, printed 28 Dec week ending, so yes I would agree over the dating to an extent.

    In the Guiness Bok Of The 1970's (basically volume 3 of their series) they state (at the end)
    "The first chart of the 70's was published in Record Retailer dated Sat Jan 10 1970. There was no chart published in the issue dated Sat jan 3 so for the first week of the 70's we must assume the chart was the same as the final 1969 chart. There was no chart published in the RR of Sat Dec 27 1969 but one was compiled. This is that Top 50 and has also to be considered the first Top 50 of 1970."

    Guiness used dates of publication to determine the chart date. Joel Whitburn does the same for Billboard.
    http://thechartbook.co.uk - for the latest are best chart book - By Decade!
    Now including NME, Record Mirror and Melody Maker from the UK and some Billboard charts

  5. #155
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    by » Wed October 23rd, 2019, 00:07

    ^
    thanks for the scans

    It all comes down to chart dating (which was historically based on the publication date of Record Retailer / Music Week) but in the three examples above they all relate to a chart which was compiled over a week prior to the MW publication date. The chart for 04/01/75 (the one that was announced on Radio 1 on Christmas Eve 1974) is a strange one. I'm not sure why the BMRB felt the need to compile a chart based on two sales weeks to Friday 20 December when the first sales week (9/12-14/12) would have been the basis for the chart dated 21/12/74. Would BMRB really have used those sales again? The second week does cut off a day early, presumably that was to ensure enough diaries arrived at BMRB's HQ in Ealing, West London on Monday 23/12. Maybe not enough arrived?

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    by » Wed October 23rd, 2019, 04:18

    Quote Originally Posted by brian05 View Post
    The Radio 2 Beatles web site contains a Beatles Quiz. One of the questions is,

    Q Which song provided The Beatles with their first No.1 in the official UK singles chart?

    A The Beatles’ third single ‘From me to you’ topped the official UK singles chart for 7 weeks in May/June 1963. Their previous single ‘Please please me’ had topped other unofficial versions of the UK singles chart.

    So there you are. And that's official.
    Alas, this is 'history' as rewritten by the 'Official' Charts Co after 2001, it is not history as it occurred in 1963. There was no 'official' chart until Feb 1969.

    If you lived thru the 60s, you know Please Please Me was #1, on every chart except Record Retailer, which would not be declared as 'official' for the 60s until after 2001. If you didn't live thru the 60s, you might get your rewritten history from chart books.

    A lie doesn't become truth, wrong doesn't become right, and evil doesn't become good, just because it's accepted by a majority.

    It matters not what BBC Radio 2 says today, Please Please Me was #1 for 3 weeks on the BBC Pick of the Pops chart back in 1963. Fact.

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    by » Wed October 23rd, 2019, 15:23

    Quote Originally Posted by brian05 View Post
    The Radio 2 Beatles web site contains a Beatles Quiz. One of the questions is,

    Q Which song provided The Beatles with their first No.1 in the official UK singles chart?

    A The Beatles’ third single ‘From me to you’ topped the official UK singles chart for 7 weeks in May/June 1963. Their previous single ‘Please please me’ had topped other unofficial versions of the UK singles chart.

    So there you are. And that's official.
    Well, that was a fun and tough quiz. I got 43 out of 50. Some really tough minutia questions only a super diehard would know, which I missed. Had to take a best guess on some of them. 1 trick question on the Sgt. Pepper cover that I missed but should have gotten. But there was another chart question that THEY got wrong: they asked which position did Love Me Do eventually reach (on the cough cough 'official' charts), and the correct answer was not among the 3 provided.

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    by » Thu October 24th, 2019, 11:36

    34/50 for me although admittedly a few were lucky guesses! Some I definitely did know but was too quick to fire off an answer without thinking through as I'm meant to be working.

    I assume that with the 'Love Me Do' chart question by "eventually reach" they meant on its initial chart run, so I went for No 17, but yes on re-issue it reached up to No 4 I think. I didn't have time to read all the answers in full, but spotted another chart-based error - it says that Lennon's 'Woman' eventually hit No 1 in February 1982 - it was of course Feb '81. Typo probably.

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    by » Thu October 24th, 2019, 18:33

    Its a pity that there is inaccuracy over the 'frozen' charts. Without doubt Record Retailer/Music week have encapsulated the wrong week to be 'frozen' for a good number of years in the seventies. Explanations given above are both informative and useful but this does not detract from the fact that many of the weeks now recognised as 'frozen' are simply wrong.
    I know for a fact that the three years I reported above have been misrepresented. I can even recall from memory when listening to the Tuesday run down before Christmas at the time that Clive Dunn was 2, the New Seekers were 4, and the Wombles at 2.
    Regrettably print deadlines at the time have muddied the waters but historically now the wrong weeks have been accredited.

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    by » Thu October 24th, 2019, 22:38

    Yes, I agree. Explanations simply state what happened in terms of print for Music Week. It's a shame that this has come to light after the publication of the books as I know Graham wanted them to be as accurate as possible, hence the inclusion in the 1960's books of the 4 October 1969 correct chart for albums and other EP charts to reflect the correct charts as far as possible.

    Having said that, the actual charts are correct - it's just the dating and this has always been wrong. I know that doesn't correct anything as repeating an error doesn't make it right, but every book since the first Guiness book in 1977 has dated in the same way these specific weeks.
    http://thechartbook.co.uk - for the latest are best chart book - By Decade!
    Now including NME, Record Mirror and Melody Maker from the UK and some Billboard charts

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    by » Fri October 25th, 2019, 14:45

    We'll all just have to get out our red pens and mark the correct dates on these mis-identified frozen charts in the new books. And the OCC needs to correct their website, and Graham Betts should fix his new 70s books pronto. The truth must be fixed and preserved!

    Various efforts have been made before to fix errors or glitches, either at Guinness or OCC. Alan Smith finally convinced them to use a different album chart for the missing 'official' album charts during a multi-week stretch during the early 70s.

    Question: which would be the better representation of a missing week chart? (a) a frozen chart, or (b) an average chart of the preceding and following weeks? Which would be closest to the truth? I think it would be (b).

    One could run some tests of multiple/various 3 week periods, calculate an average of weeks 1 and 3, and see if the actual week 2 chart is closer to this average weeks 1/3 chart, or the frozen week 1 chart. I would guess the average chart would win out most every time.

    A frozen chart and an average 'before and after' chart are both fake data. One could argue a blank missing chart is the only truth as it was. But which is the best approximation of the real truth? I would argue for the average 'before and after'.

    So let it be written, so let it be done...

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    by » Fri October 25th, 2019, 20:34

    Quote Originally Posted by RokinRobinOfLocksley View Post
    Well, that was a fun and tough quiz. I got 43 out of 50.
    I got 45 /50. I did not know the name of the group originally (only for 1 week). Never heard of that before.

  13. #163
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    by » Fri October 25th, 2019, 22:09

    Quote Originally Posted by RokinRobinOfLocksley View Post
    We'll all just have to get out our red pens and mark the correct dates on these mis-identified frozen charts in the new books. And the OCC needs to correct their website, and Graham Betts should fix his new 70s books pronto. The truth must be fixed and preserved!

    Various efforts have been made before to fix errors or glitches, either at Guinness or OCC. Alan Smith finally convinced them to use a different album chart for the missing 'official' album charts during a multi-week stretch during the early 70s.

    Question: which would be the better representation of a missing week chart? (a) a frozen chart, or (b) an average chart of the preceding and following weeks? Which would be closest to the truth? I think it would be (b).

    One could run some tests of multiple/various 3 week periods, calculate an average of weeks 1 and 3, and see if the actual week 2 chart is closer to this average weeks 1/3 chart, or the frozen week 1 chart. I would guess the average chart would win out most every time.

    A frozen chart and an average 'before and after' chart are both fake data. One could argue a blank missing chart is the only truth as it was. But which is the best approximation of the real truth? I would argue for the average 'before and after'.

    So let it be written, so let it be done...
    The latter (average chart of the preceding and following weeks) is what the publishers of the chart fanzine Char****ch did to compile charts to use instead of the frozen Christmas / New Year charts for the period 1969 - 1982. For the chart dated 3 January 1981 the averaged out chart they compiled placed 'Happy Xmas (War Is Over)' at number 1. This led to an erroneous belief in the chart watching community around the early 2000s that the then chart compiler (BMRB) had compiled, but not published, a chart between the Christmas and New Year 1980/1 period and that 'Happy Xmas' had been number 1.

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    by » Sat October 26th, 2019, 14:28

    Quote Originally Posted by Robbie View Post
    The latter (average chart of the preceding and following weeks) is what the publishers of the chart fanzine Char****ch did to compile charts to use instead of the frozen Christmas / New Year charts for the period 1969 - 1982. For the chart dated 3 January 1981 the averaged out chart they compiled placed 'Happy Xmas (War Is Over)' at number 1. This led to an erroneous belief in the chart watching community around the early 2000s that the then chart compiler (BMRB) had compiled, but not published, a chart between the Christmas and New Year 1980/1 period and that 'Happy Xmas' had been number 1.
    Most interesting, thanks Robbie. This now begs the question, did Char****ch know about the wrong frozen charts when they created their average charts for the missing weeks? Because that would impact which before and after weeks to average for the missing weeks.

    I need to pull out my Tony Jasper Record Mirror chart books to see if they have the same frozen weeks as the Record Retailer/Music Week charts. That's assuming Jasper actually used the BMRB charts in Record Mirror and not the BMRB charts from RR/MW. Hmmm...

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    by » Sat October 26th, 2019, 16:55

    ^
    The UKMIx censor seems to be working overtime! The **** part is a swear word in its own right but not when it is part of another word. The fanzine is called Chart watch.

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    by » Sat October 26th, 2019, 17:12

    Quote Originally Posted by RokinRobinOfLocksley View Post
    Most interesting, thanks Robbie. This now begs the question, did Char****ch know about the wrong frozen charts when they created their average charts for the missing weeks? Because that would impact which before and after weeks to average for the missing weeks.

    I need to pull out my Tony Jasper Record Mirror chart books to see if they have the same frozen weeks as the Record Retailer/Music Week charts. That's assuming Jasper actually used the BMRB charts in Record Mirror and not the BMRB charts from RR/MW. Hmmm...
    Tony Jasper used the charts which were published in Record Mirror. Or at least he did for the 1975 original (which was called "20 Years Of British Record Charts". I'll dig the book out but I mentioned in a post above about how 'I'd Like To Teach The World To Sing' spent two weeks at number 4 and not two weeks at number 32:

    I realised something was a bit strange with the second (New Seekers) chart many years ago when having long thought that 'I'd Like To Teach The World To Sing' had moved 32-4-4-1 I saw it listed (in the 1992 edition of Top 40 Charts if I recall) as 32-32-4-1. My original source had been the first Tony Jasper "Top Twenty" book which I bought in 1976. Tony's source was Record Mirror, the Top 40 Charts book was Music Week. I can only assume that Record Mirror were able to publish the new chart in the correct week whereas Music Week published the chart a week later and as a consequence the chart from the previous week was considered as being frozen.
    As far as I can recall, in the book, the chart where the record climbed to number 4 is dated 25 December 1971 and the 1 January 1972 chart is a repeat of that chart.

    KingofSkiffle has since posted a scan of the Record Mirror chart for 25/12/71 (where 'I'd Like To Teach The World To Sing' climbed from 32-4) and it was published in the issue dated 01/01/72. Music Week* was most likely not published on 01/01/72 and the previous week (25/12/71) the magazine published an end of year chart and not a weekly chart. The 08/0172 issue of Music Week publishes the chart the week The New Seekers climbed to the top. Its last week position is showing as number 4, the two weeks ago position is 32. My guess is someone at Hit Singles back in 1976 or 1977 simply took "last week" as meaning 01/01/72 when in reality it should have been 25/12/71. What is also interesting is that Music Week not only ignores the idea of a frozen chart but also doesn't give any of the records that were also on the chart "last week" an additional week. So for example 'I'd Like To Teach The World To Sing' is shown as having 3 spent weeks on the chart rather than 4.

    *I know it's Record Retailer but I keep typing Music Week so I'll stick to the latter to keep some consistency.

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    by » Sat October 26th, 2019, 20:02

    As far as I can recall, in the book, the chart where the record climbed to number 4 is dated 25 December 1971 and the 1 January 1972 chart is a repeat of that chart.


    The 1986 edition of The Top Twenty Book still carries the same information, so probably all consistent.
    It's my memory too that The New Seekers were No. 4 at Xmas 1971.

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    by » Mon October 28th, 2019, 13:10

    I have been looking again at this in more detail. In my Tony Jasper Top Twenty book 1978 update, in 1970 he has Clive Dunn at No 2 for week ending 26th December and the 'frozen' chart for January 2nd which is correct.
    In 1971 he has the New Seekers at No 4 on 25th December and the 'frozen' chart for January 1st again which is correct. RR does indeed has the wrong dates for these.
    Both books are correct for 1972 and 1973, but both are wrong in 1974 as there was a new chart announced on Tuesday 24th Christmas Eve for week ending Sat 28th placing The Wombles at No 2. It is the Week Ending 4th January which should be the 'frozen' one.
    1975, 1976, 1977 are all correct in both books, 1978, and 1979 are correct too in the new book. So in summary the new book's 'frozen chart' needs to be corrected by both Graham and the OCC for the years, 1970, 1971, and 1974.

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    by » Mon October 28th, 2019, 16:56

    I noticed this thread by Dave Taylor in Popscene
    The first post shows the missing top 40 of 1 January 1975

    https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/pops...wn-t12795.html

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    by » Mon October 28th, 2019, 18:44

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter C View Post
    I noticed this thread by Dave Taylor in Popscene
    The first post shows the missing top 40 of 1 January 1975

    https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/pops...wn-t12795.html
    Thanks Peter C! My brain has been trying to tell me that Dave Taylor published a thread somewhere of all the missing Christmas charts, but I can't remember which forum, what thread name (I thought 'Christmas' was in there somewhere), and which charts. Haven't had time to do a search. It looks like there are several BMRB missing Christmas charts right here in this Popscene thread.

    So to recap, the BMRB data is the primo source / firsthand data.

    Record Retailer/Music Week, Record Mirror, the BBC, and Billboard in the US are all second hand info, as they were picking and choosing which week to take a Christmas holiday / vacation on, and giving us whatever BMRB data their schedules would allow. Would have been nicer if they had told us exactly what they were doing, and then published the missing charts in the next available issues.

    And then Guinness and the OCC are third hand info, as they were taking whatever second hand source they could find or felt like using.

    So it appears that none of these sources is 100% correct about the missing / frozen Christmas charts, and all must be consulted to figure out what the heck was truly going on. Except perhaps BMRB was correct the whole time, and that would be the go to source to straighten this whole thing out. If their original Christmas charts can be found.

    But then again, maybe Dave Taylor found them all, and has posted them in various forums for us to seek and find...

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    by » Mon October 28th, 2019, 21:34

    OK, I searched my computer, and found this file that Dave Taylor had sent me back in 2011. He described it as 'the missing BMRB New Year Top 40 charts from December 1969 - December 1983.' The as received file date shows it was created on 29 Mar 2011, no author credit. The 31 Dec 1974 chart in this file is the same as the 'w/k of 1st January 1975' chart from the Popscene link that PeterC posted above, which Dave Taylor posted at Popscene on 1 Jan 2012. Dave says in this Popscene post that this chart was compiled but never broadcast (and apparently never published either).

    Has anyone heard anything about these Dave charts? Dave didn't give me any discussion or commentary on what these were when he sent them to me. I'd be glad to post them all here. I have no idea whether these are indeed the missing charts, or the averaged charts that were put together by Char****ch that Robbie mentions above.

    Dave did a lot of posting over the years, and it's possible he posted these Christmas charts somewhere, hopefully with some running commentary...

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    by » Mon October 28th, 2019, 21:58

    ^

    The Christmas / New Year charts that Dave Taylor posted weren't missing charts. That is they weren't charts that the BMRB compiled but didn't publish. They are in fact the charts that I mentioned a few posts above (post #163) which were averaged out charts of the two charts that were compiled for the pre-Christmas and post New Year periods and which appeared in Chart Watch many years ago. The chart Dave posted for 1 January 1975 (not sure why he chose that date, it's a Wednesday?) is simply an average of two charts although in this instance the charts used are the charts with a publication date (in Music Week) of 04/01/75 and 11/01/75. The chart of 04/01/75 has been used as the "pre Christmas" chart.

    The working out of the chart is as follows (act: 11-01 / 04-01: total)

    Mud: 1 - 1: 2
    Ralph McTell: 2 - 4: 6
    Status Quo: 3 - 10: 13
    Kenny: 4 - 21: 25
    Wombles: 5 - 2: 7

    other records with a total of 25 or less:

    Disco Tex: 8 - 11: 19
    Rubettes: 10 - 3: 13
    Goodies: 11 - 7: 18
    BTO: 12 - 6: 18
    Elvis Presley: 13 - 5: 18

    Rearranging the records in order of totals, lowest first and a tie-break being the higher record on the pre-Christmas chart (04/01 in this example the top 10 is:

    1 Mud
    2 Ralph McTell
    3 Wombles
    4 Rubettes
    5 Status Quo
    6 Elvis Presley
    7 BTO
    8 Goodies
    9 Disco Tex
    10 Kenny

    which matches the chart Dave posted.

    I contacted Dave around 2012 to explain that these weren't missing charts but were charts that had been published in Chart Watch many years previously. Dave replied that he was unaware of the origin of the charts but upon doing some basic checks on the charts agreed that they were simply averaged out charts that someone had sent him years earlier and who had described them as unpublished BMRB charts. It was ingenious of the original compiler of these charts to use the 04/01/75 chart as the "pre-Christmas" chart rather than the chart for 21/12/74 as most people doing a similar exercise would have done.

    I've just checked the "missing" chart for 01/01/72 and it too follows a similar pattern: the pre-Christmas chart used is the one the OCC have dated as 01/01/72 but which Record Mirror dated as 25/12/71. It's the one which has the New Seekers at number 4. Similarly the "missing" Christmas chart for 1970 (dated 02/01/71) has the pre-Christmas chart as the one which the OCC have dated as 02/01/71 but which would have been dated 26/12/70 had Record Retailer published the chart in the correct week. This is the one with 'Grandad' at number 2.

    RockinRobin had already asked (post #164 above) whether Chart Watch knew about the wrong frozen charts when compiling their average charts for the missing weeks and from the above it is clear that they did. In all three charts mentioned above the compiler used the last chart that was announced before Christmas as the pre-Christmas chart, even if the chart itself didn't appear in print until the New Year.

  23. #173
    RokinRobinOfLocksley's Avatar

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    by » Tue October 29th, 2019, 02:34

    ^

    Thanks Robbie, that's most interesting! And good for Chart Watch in averaging the correct weeks.

    I think I've found another Christmastime chart glitch where Record Mirror and Record Retailer might have chosen different frozen weeks, and that is for 1969. I don't have either RM or RR charts to compare, but I'm looking at Tony Jasper's book, a few before and after RM charts from the American Radio History (ARH) site, and the BMRB charts as carried in Billboard from the ARH site. And the OCC website, Lonnie's 'official' charts here on UKMix, and the Virgin Charts book I have.

    Tony Jasper, Billboard, and RM all seem to agree, and indicate that the 20 Dec 1969 chart is frozen / repeated for 27 Dec. Jasper shows the 20 Dec chart, no chart for 27 Dec, and a new chart for 3 Jan 1970. Billboard shows the 20 Dec chart, a repeat of 20 Dec for 27 Dec, no chart for 3 Jan 1970, and the 10 Jan chart with LW positions for 3 Jan. (Billboard dates are 1 week off, I adjusted them here to align with RM/RR to reduce confusion.) The 1 Nov 1969 and 10 Jan 1970 RM charts on ARH agree with Jasper; but alas no RM issue on ARH for 20 Dec, issue with no charts for 27 Dec, no issue for 3 Jan 1970, but yes charts for 10 Jan with LW positions for 3 Jan. Collectively, this is telling me a 27 Dec 1969 chart was either not produced, was frozen / repeated from 20 Dec, or maybe there was no issue that week. While all 3 sources show a new chart for 3 Jan 1970, 2 of the 3 (maybe all 3) coming from the LW positions of the 10 Jan chart.

    While the OCC website, Lonnie UKMix, and Virgin Charts book all seem to indicate that the 27 Dec 1969 chart is frozen / repeated for 3 Jan 1970.

    Or to put it another way, Jasper and Billboard with hints of RM freeze the chart when Two Little Boys moves from 3 to 1, Sugar Sugar moves from 1 to 3, and Suspicious Minds moves from 8 to 6.

    OCC, Lonnie UKMix, and Virgin Charts freeze the chart when Suspicious Minds moves from 6 to 4, Yester-Me moves from 4 to 6, and Tracy moves from 10 to 9.

    Which is correct? Does the evidence lean one way more than the other?

  24. #174
    kingofskiffle's Avatar
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    by » Tue October 29th, 2019, 07:22

    The information relating to the 3 Jan 1970 chart comes from the Guinnes book of the 1970’s published about 1981. At the back they print the first singles chart of 1970 but with a note stating that it was previously unpublished but compiled. They state 3 Jan was frozen so the first chart of the 1970’s was the chart of 27 Dec which was not published. That’s where that chart comes from. Obviously they could be wrong but it does seem unlikely.
    http://thechartbook.co.uk - for the latest are best chart book - By Decade!
    Now including NME, Record Mirror and Melody Maker from the UK and some Billboard charts

  25. #175
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    by » Tue October 29th, 2019, 14:19

    Quote Originally Posted by kingofskiffle View Post
    The information relating to the 3 Jan 1970 chart comes from the Guinnes book of the 1970’s published about 1981. At the back they print the first singles chart of 1970 but with a note stating that it was previously unpublished but compiled. They state 3 Jan was frozen so the first chart of the 1970’s was the chart of 27 Dec which was not published. That’s where that chart comes from. Obviously they could be wrong but it does seem unlikely.
    This is the correct chart. The chart for 27th December was announced on Tuesday 23rd. The following Tuesday the 30th fell between Christmas and New Year which was always the week a 'frozen' chart fell. The January 3rd chart for 1970 is the frozen chart.
    In Graham's book it is only the years 1970, 1971, and 1974 that have the erroneous 'frozen' chart.
    It;s actually quite easy to work out. If you remember, the chart was always announced on the Tuesday, or Wednesday if the Monday was a Bank Holiday, prior to the Saturday week ending date. It therefore follows that if the following Tuesday fell on Christmas Day or the weekdays between Christmas and New Year, then this is the 'frozen' chart.

    Yeah Dave Taylor also sent me what he thought were the 'missing' charts, but then later advised me this were a Chart***** average and not 'missing' charts at all.

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