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  1. #51
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    by Fri May 10th, 2019, 13:32

    Quote Originally Posted by jules25 View Post
    The Official Eighties Hits Book - My only criticism is that it contains some trivia of future achievements. I would rather it just covered things that happened in the 80's.
    I understand what you mean, but bear in mind I have to try and maintain more than 10,000 artist biographies, spread across singles and albums. I tried modifying them to make them only relevant to the specific decade they appear in but it would mean having seven different Elvis Presley biographies, six different Beatles biographies and so on. In the case of, say Stevie Wonder, isn't it all the more interesting to know that his Grammy award winning continued beyond the eighties? Or that Bob Dylan won a Nobel prize?

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    by Fri May 10th, 2019, 13:36

    Quote Originally Posted by zeus555 View Post
    Lonnie -- How do the BPI Sales Awards 'work' in the 1980's 'Hits' Book?

    You may think that the answer is 'obvious', but I'm confused by some of the Awards...


    Zeus555
    The query you raise refers to the Queen Greatest Hits album, which as you say has achieved far more than the 11 times platinum I show. The problem is a mix of EMI (and their successors) and the BPI - I have a spreadsheet of every BPI award, and while the Greatest Hits album was a stand alone album it achieved the 11 times platinum certification.

    Then of course EMI doubled it up with the Greatest Hits II, and later with a third edition, which is now the Platinum Collection. It is these later additions that have continued to earn platinum awards, but the BPI database is still showing only 11 times platinum for the original Greatest Hits.

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    by Fri May 10th, 2019, 14:40

    Quote Originally Posted by Hotspurman View Post
    The query you raise refers to the Queen Greatest Hits album, which as you say has achieved far more than the 11 times platinum I show. The problem is a mix of EMI (and their successors) and the BPI - I have a spreadsheet of every BPI award, and while the Greatest Hits album was a stand alone album it achieved the 11 times platinum certification.

    Then of course EMI doubled it up with the Greatest Hits II, and later with a third edition, which is now the Platinum Collection. It is these later additions that have continued to earn platinum awards, but the BPI database is still showing only 11 times platinum for the original Greatest Hits.
    I might be wrong but I think 'Greatest Hits' by Queen was one of a number of albums that (on 5 February 2016) the BPI took it upon themselves to award additional certifications to based on what the OCC had estimated to be sales to date of each album rather than using the actual sales figure that was held in the OCC product database. The idea behind this seems to have been to give older albums a chance to have certifications that reflect their actual sales rather than sales from 1 February 1994. Other recipients included albums such as 'Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band' and 'Bat Out Of Hell' by Meat Loaf. Each album suddenly had additional Platinum certifications from that date. I think 'Greatest Hits' was 11x Platinum at that point, it suddenly increased to something like 18xP or 19xP. Similar large jumps happened for a number of other albums, including the two I mentioned. There is an article about this exercise on the OCC website, in the news archive, but I can't locate it.

    The BPI did intend to continue this "retrospective" certification exercise but it seems to have ground to a halt, at least for the time being. In the meantime those albums that did have additional Platinum certifications have continued to gain more awards as it appears that the OCC have simply added ongoing sales to the "estimated" sales figure they held in February 2016. Both 'Greatest Hits' and 'Bat Out Of Hell' have since gained another Platinum certification, coincidentally, according to the BPI database, both doing so on 20 December 2018.

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    by Sat May 11th, 2019, 21:53

    Thanks for your replies, concerning the 11 UK Platinum Awards for Queen's 1st
    'Greatest Hits' Album, in the 1980's Album Chart Book.

    Yes, The B.P.I. up-dated' several 'Old' UK Albums Platinum Awards, a few Years ago. This
    included the 1st Queen Hits Album, which was then raised to 21 UK Platinum Awards last
    December. ABBA's 1976 'Greatest Hits' Album was raised from 1 UK Platinum Award, to 8
    UK Platinum Awards, a few Year's ago. However, no other 1970's or 1980's ABBA Albums
    have been given added Platinum Awards, and 'Arrival' alone should have at least 5. But, it
    has just 1 - just like 'The Album', 'Voulez-Vous', 'Greatest Hits Vol. 2', 'Super Trouper',
    'The Visitors', and 'The Singles - The First Ten Years'.

    Hopefully, one day The B.P.I., (and The OCC), will up-grade every Act's 'Old' Albums UK Sales
    Awards, and Acts like Elvis Presley, Cliff Richard, The Beatles, Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin,
    Elton John, Rod Stewart, Queen, and ABBA etc., will all get their true tallies of UK Platinum
    Sales Awards...


    Zeus555
    Last edited by zeus555; Sat May 11th, 2019 at 22:08.

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    by Sun May 12th, 2019, 10:49

    The Official Singles chart book now ordered �� One more book to go.
    Why reach for the Moon when we have the Stars.

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    by Sun May 12th, 2019, 10:53

    @hotspursman - fair point ✅ and that’s true as I hadn’t known that about Dylan.
    @zues555 - do artists/labels have to request certifications updates or do BPI do it themselves?
    Why reach for the Moon when we have the Stars.

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    by Sun May 12th, 2019, 12:23

    Jules25 - As I understand it, The B.P.I. automatically gives out UK Sales Awards, and this has
    been the case for a few Years now. All that matters is when a Single, Album, or DVD reaches
    each new Sales level. But, they have - for now - ceased up-grading Sales Awards for previous
    Decades - as in the 1950's to the first part of the 1980's.


    Zeus555

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    by Mon May 13th, 2019, 17:34

    Quote Originally Posted by jules25 View Post
    The Official Eighties Hits Book - My only criticism is that it contains some trivia of future achievements. I would rather it just covered things that happened in the 80's.
    I wish that were my only criticism of this book - but my copy arrived a couple of hours ago, and having perused the entries relating to a selection of acts of more major interest to me, or relating to more exceptional chart performances, and a few randomly selected entries, I'm a little disappointed by the number of errors, omissions and, especially, inconsistencies that I found. Of course, this may or may not be typical of the rest of the book, and the volume of data means it is inevitable that some things won't be picked up and corrected prior to publication. But these are some of the things that irritated me to a greater or lesser extent:

    Perhaps attention to punctuation has declined since I was at school, but throughout the book there seems to be a shortage of commas, or full stops and capital letters, in the descriptions. The vast majority start with what seem to be two sentences rolled into one, which should have been separated at least by a comma. For example:

    ANN WILLIAMSON

    British female country singer born in Falkirk she also recorded religious material.

    I gave that as an example, as it's the entire entry for that artist. In contrast, many go on for several sentences after the two joined together - perhaps the varied length is due to the amount of information available, but I can't see any particular logic underlying the depth of detail in different entries. Some are even more brief than the above:

    IRIS WILLIAMS

    British female singer born in Pontypridd, Wales on 20 April 1944.

    while others add interesting background information:

    TONI BASIL

    American female singer born Antonia Basilotta in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania on 22 September 1948. Her early career was as an actress and she later became a dancer, choreographer (she worked on American Graffitti) and video producer before recording her first album in 1981.

    A lot of dates of birth are mentioned in the book, so I decided just to test-check those two. Results - not good. Although the Toni Basil entry seems otherwise accurate (and correctly punctuated) other sources give her year of birth as 1943. While Wikipedia hedges its bets by saying Iris Williams was born in "1944 or 1946". That also records that she received an OBE - which is not mentioned in this book, although similar, different or greater honours awarded to quite a lot of other performers are included.

    In this trio of entries, I also found myself wondering whether the author included Pontypridd, Wales and not Falkirk, Scotland because he happened to know one and not the other, but that's only a minor inconsistency. The major inconsistency that I found really disappointing was the treatment of hits that charted with the same catalogue number in more than one chart run. Ideally, I would like to have seen a separate line for each chart run in the relatively few hits on which this occurred - as was done in the earlier editions of the "Guinness Hit Singles" but not in the later ones. But here, this has sometimes been done....in other instances some, but not all, chart-runs have been combined....and others have been combined into a single total. Examples:

    Each run listed separately - Christmas hits by Frank Kelly, Wizzard and (multiple entries) Slade. Ken Barrie "Postman Pat" - correctly separated into three lines. Berlin "Take my Breath Away", Sabrina "Boys", Cyndi Lauper "Time After Time", Sam Brown "Stop" correctly in twice.

    Partial combination - Bobby G "Big Deal" - first two of three chart runs combined, the third separate.

    Total combination - Jennifer Rush "The Power Of Love" - December 1986 re-entry combined with original 1985 entry.

    To close with just a few more minor niggles and errors that "leapt off the pages" to me:

    - an effort seems to have been made to record the dates of death of those hit-makers no longer with us (again in varying degrees of clarity - Baltimora "died from AIDS on 29 March 1995", Billy MacKenzie "was found dead in a garden shed on 22 January 1997" while Alan Barton was "killed in a road crash in 1995"). But I spotted at least two deaths that had been overlooked, presumably because no-one bothered to check - Kralle Krawinkel of Trio, who died on 16 February 2014 (the more recent death of Peter Behrens is mentioned) - and Paul Furey, one fifth of the Fureys and Davey Arthur, who passed away on 16 June 2002.

    - the entry on Haysi Fantayzee includes "with both male members recording solo after their group success". Well, that's true - but Kate Garner released a solo single too!

    - there's a long list of (hopefully) everyone that was on Band Aid, but only ten acts listed for Band Aid II a few lines lower down - surely there were more than this?

    - Bluebells "Cath" in 1984 should surely be a reissue of LON 20, not LON 54 - the latter number was the reissue!

    - the track listing for Foster and Allen's second hit album (RITZLP 0015) looks completely incorrect. The book's version may relate to a different LP released in another country.

    - I'm pretty certain that it was a different Sue Wilkinson, not the one that had a hit single, that worked on Emmerdale.
    Last edited by CZB; Mon May 13th, 2019 at 23:30.

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    by Mon May 13th, 2019, 23:54

    To be honest due to the comprehensive nature of this book there will be some small errors and things overlooked. I think Graham has done an excellent job and compared to other chart books these are brilliant. I can only imagine the hard work that goes into compiling these books. The ones who like to nitpick I would love to see if they could do a better job. We should be grateful for the work he has done as I have always wanted books like these.

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    by Tue May 14th, 2019, 20:06

    Since I produced these books entirely on my own, I alone am responsible for any errors and/or omissions. No matter how many times I go over entries, looking to correct known errors or just tighten up the mini biographies, there always seems to be a few that slip through the net. As I don’t have a researcher, I cannot blame anyone other than myself.

    However, I should point out the bulk of the biographical information had previously appeared in the five books published by Harper Collins some fifteen years ago. Much of the information I sourced in those far off days before the internet, so while Wikipedia may state that Iris Williams was born in either 1944 or 1946, my statement of 1944 is consistent with the information I gleaned back in the mid 1990s when I first started putting together the data. And where do you think Wikipedia gets much of its information? From books like mine!

    I obviously missed that Iris had also been awarded an OBE, and no doubt there will be one or two others that I’ve missed, although I think I can confidently state that no one who has been awarded an honour (or turned one down – check David Bowie, John Cleese etc) for the last fifteen years or so has been omitted.

    I should also perhaps state, as I did in the entries to several of those earlier books, that date of births in particular should be taken with a pinch of salt – you will be well aware of the artists who routinely chopped a year or two off their real ages, although this practice has been somewhat terminated by the rise of social media – I saw one posting that stated that if the artist in question really was the age she said she was then she was no more than two years of age when she started school!

    I try where possible t put as much relevant information as I can in little more than a line or two – there is little about Ann Williamson because I haven’t been able to find much – even her Facebook page merely confirms her place of birth but not the date. If you know anything further on Ann, or any of the other artist featured then there is an email address listed in the book. If I can incorporate the additional information, then I’ll try to do so, if not in the 80s book then in other volumes where relevant.

    With regards to the chart runs, I had a rough rule of thumb I used for those HC books, taking into account the past experience of the Guinness compilers. If you recall, they had originally listed each and every chart re-entry, but it quickly became apparent that the book was going to explode in size. So they then decided that they would add any subsequent re-entries to the original chart tally, but the problem with this was that it altered history – Love Me Do by The Beatles peaked at #17 during its original 1962 chart run and when re-released (with the same catalogue number) on the 20th anniversary made it to #4. Yet Guinness merely adjusted the original chart peak in 1962 to #4 and added the additional weeks to the tally.

    This was obviously going to cause problems, so I decided that where a record re-entered the chart within a couple of weeks or so and could be considered part of the original chart run, I would add the week tally together. Where there was a significant delay, as in the case of Bobby G, I would treat the re-entry as an entirely new chart run. If you think this is problematic during the 80s, wait until you get to the current decade – Slade, Shakin’ Stevens, Wham!, Band Aid, Chris Rea, Wizzard, Brenda Lee et al re-appear virtually every Christmas, while Ray Parker’s Ghostbusters and Michael Jackson’s Thriller return most Halloween’s.

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    by Tue May 14th, 2019, 23:57

    There is now an article about these books on OCC website

    https://www.officialcharts.com/chart...-books__26295/

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    by Wed May 15th, 2019, 02:21

    How have I only just noticed this now?! This is excellent news! I've been hoping for a long time for there to be updates to the Virgin Hit Singles Book and the Virgin Top 40 Charts Book, so this is exactly what I need! I will definitely be ordering the books covering the 10s period, and the Singles Chart Book covering the 90s (my favourite era!) And possibly more too - oh wow, I'm going to be spoiled for choice with all the books for each decade and deciding which ones to buy!

    I'm the kind of person who prefers to have hard copy, physical books that I can refer to whenever, so this is great! So thank you to the OCC and Graham Betts for collaborating on this exciting new project!

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    by Wed June 19th, 2019, 16:22

    Are there any updates as to when the next book will be coming out. Im eagerly waiting lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Hotspurman View Post
    The original intention was to have the first three books released in December 2018, but that slipped by owing to problems uploading the manuscripts to Amazon. That has now been resolved, obviously, so I'm hoping that we will get back on track and have the two sixties books (one covering all the charts - singles, albums and EPs - and another for hits) available either late May or very early June. The plan is to release the final four books covering the 2010s (that's one each for singles, albums, compilation charts/hits and hits) released in March 2020.

    Depending on how much time I have available, I'll post on here any important news and updates, but obviously these books take an age to lay out and check.

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    by Tue June 25th, 2019, 16:52

    As they say - watch this space - currently working on the two sixties books (one covering all three chart formats - singles, albums and EPs and another on hits). I hope they will be released in the next couple of weeks.

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    by Tue June 25th, 2019, 19:19

    ^
    sounds good!

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    by Wed June 26th, 2019, 06:17

    Quote Originally Posted by jasonsindy View Post
    Are there any updates as to when the next book will be coming out. I’m eagerly waiting lol
    Any plans for digital copies of these books?

    Being 2019 and all

    Thanks

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    by Thu June 27th, 2019, 09:37

    I'm afraid not - Kindle doesn't recognise tables, which is how all of the books (hits and charts) are laid out. I looked at the e-books Joel Whitburn had advertised and they were purely the pdf files, which again doesn't translate too well to e-reader.

    The main point to these books is that even though we are in the digital age, some people (me especially!) like to have a print copy to flick through - these are not necessarily books you turn to page one and read all the way through; you switch from one section to another, following particular records or particular artists. Look how long it takes to load up the OCC website!

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    by Thu June 27th, 2019, 10:10

    Apple Books has a Joel Whitburn book of Top 40 Hits on it and if you look at how that has been done you will see why these simply won't work on that platform.
    http://thechartbook.co.uk - for the latest are best chart book - By Decade!
    Now including NME, Record Mirror and Melody Maker from the UK and some Billboard charts

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    by Thu June 27th, 2019, 23:22

    Quote Originally Posted by kingofskiffle View Post
    Apple Books has a Joel Whitburn book of Top 40 Hits on it and if you look at how that has been done you will see why these simply won't work on that platform.
    i have that book and I have no troubles using it.

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    by Thu June 27th, 2019, 23:31

    Quote Originally Posted by Hotspurman View Post
    I'm afraid not - Kindle doesn't recognise tables, which is how all of the books (hits and charts) are laid out. I looked at the e-books Joel Whitburn had advertised and they were purely the pdf files, which again doesn't translate too well to e-reader.

    The main point to these books is that even though we are in the digital age, some people (me especially!) like to have a print copy to flick through - these are not necessarily books you turn to page one and read all the way through; you switch from one section to another, following particular records or particular artists. Look how long it takes to load up the OCC website!
    That’s extremely disappointing.

    Digital doesn’t mean kindle. Digital means some form of electronic copy.

    I love books. I’ve got a whole dresser full of chart books I can no longer read. We all get older and we all need eventually technology to help us read.

    It’s not always about convenience, or the perfect way to read something or l ay it out, sometimes it’s about accessibility.

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    by Fri June 28th, 2019, 21:33

    Quote Originally Posted by kingofskiffle View Post
    Apple Books has a Joel Whitburn book of Top 40 Hits on it and if you look at how that has been done you will see why these simply won't work on that platform.
    The more I think about it, the more I am surprised at your response.

    How are your digital sales vs your print sales? Yes I realize you have done only one print book and price is probably a factor, but still. Its rhetorical, Im not asking you to reveal proprietary sales info

    Besides, as a digital file, a mobi, epub or PDF, these file formats are the PERFECT method of accessing these type of data books. As mentioned, you dont sit and read the book. You flip through it looking for a song or artist. With digital searching you dont need to worry if the editor used THE or not on an artist and it it was filed under The or not. Looking for a song in the print book but forgot that the song starts eith a phrase in brackets and cant find it. Not a problem in a digital book.

    There are far too many advantages to list for digital for these books. I will leave it though with the fact that size isnt an issue. No longer needing to mske the print smaller and smaller in print versions as the years and decades of history pile up and attempting to leave the book unwieldy and bindable. A good example is that NME chart book recently discussed.

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    by Fri June 28th, 2019, 22:01

    ^
    Perhaps there's a misunderstanding about the meaning of digital versions? I'm guessing Hotspurman is thinking you meant along the lines of a kindle book version whereas you mean a PDF version?

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    by Sat June 29th, 2019, 00:23

    ^ I think I may have misunderstood and I do suspect their is confusion.

    I've sold one print book. More than happy to provide sales of the digital books - the most for one book is 12 copies.

    What I meant was - Kindle does not allow for the data in the right way - and it is most important that the books are done in the right way, otherwise the data becomes distorted and sales don't happen. Kindle means that tables become images and that then means a zoom in - the Joel Whitburn 40 book is just that - a zoom in when viewed on my iPad/iphone because its images.
    http://thechartbook.co.uk - for the latest are best chart book - By Decade!
    Now including NME, Record Mirror and Melody Maker from the UK and some Billboard charts

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    by Sat June 29th, 2019, 01:42

    Quote Originally Posted by Robbie View Post
    ^
    Perhaps there's a misunderstanding about the meaning of digital versions? I'm guessing Hotspurman is thinking you meant along the lines of a kindle book version whereas you mean a PDF version?
    I mean anything that isn’t print. Some form of computer file, take computer to mean phone, tablet etc., thst one can use 2019 technology to “read” the book.

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    by Sat June 29th, 2019, 01:51

    Quote Originally Posted by kingofskiffle View Post
    ^ I think I may have misunderstood and I do suspect their is confusion.

    I've sold one print book. More than happy to provide sales of the digital books - the most for one book is 12 copies.

    What I meant was - Kindle does not allow for the data in the right way - and it is most important that the books are done in the right way, otherwise the data becomes distorted and sales don't happen. Kindle means that tables become images and that then means a zoom in - the Joel Whitburn 40 book is just that - a zoom in when viewed on my iPad/iphone because its images.

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