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Thread: The controversial abortion restrictions sweeping the US

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    by » Fri May 17th, 2019, 19:48

    SOURCE

    Surprised this didn't get a topic her yet, but I think it really deserves one.

    I am disgusted by the republicans, and anyone who dares to ever say "not all white people" and "not all men" surely found the great timing to stay quiet now. *we see you*

    Will later provide the sources and valuable info on why this is not just a women issue and how this legislation is racist at its core. Feel free to shade the hell out of Alyssa Milano even if she's your childhood idol (like in my case). That #sexban is useless and full of blind spots for a bigger picture.

    Discuss!
    Last edited by Serby; Fri May 17th, 2019 at 20:15.
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    by » Fri May 17th, 2019, 19:50

    Important: white woman wrote and accepted this bill, so cis men are not the only ones to blame here, this is bigger than gender.
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    by » Fri May 17th, 2019, 20:10

    The abortion topic...for the longest time I thought like you guys and thought it was the woman’s right to terminate but after seeing an aborted baby...have any of you seen that? It was one of the saddest and awful things I’d ever seen and it shifted my perspective on this topic...can a law which stops the murder of innocent babies be such a bad thing?

    I understand both sides of this argument, not sure what to think...

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    by » Fri May 17th, 2019, 20:21

    I don’t think murder is the right term at all - a foetus isn’t a fully rational, functioning person with human thoughts, feelings or developed brain connections.

    I’m also not sure how much men should be getting involved with a purely female issue. Yes, it takes a man to make a child, but the woman carries it, physically births it and lives with the lasting effects of that. Then you have economic and social issues that certain women should not have to go through pregnancy, whether it results in adoption or not. Not to even mention rape and incest!

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    by » Fri May 17th, 2019, 20:24

    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyCrazy View Post
    The abortion topic...for the longest time I thought like you guys and thought it was the woman’s right to terminate but after seeing an aborted baby...have any of you seen that? It was one of the saddest and awful things I’d ever seen and it shifted my perspective on this topic...can a law which stops the murder of innocent babies be such a bad thing?

    I understand both sides of this argument, not sure what to think...
    Well it should simply be the mothers choice, especially when it’s her that has to have the baby growing in her for 9 months and give birth....plus they’re not even considering women who have been raped. So now if a woman is raped she has to be forced to have the baby? Terrible

    yes its sad, but I think it would be even worse if the baby was to be born by a mother who didn’t want him/her in the first place. If you are not ready to bring a child to this world, you should have the option not to...especially if it was the product of rape or something.
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    by » Fri May 17th, 2019, 20:25

    I do not know how people can be so full of hating everyone who looks different. All conservatives have found racism as their go-to-topic - worldwide. They do not have any solutions for current problems, other than blaming marginalized groups.

    So... without Blacks, Gays, Jews, Muslims, Latinos et al what do they think their cultures will gain?

    The latest abortion bills are so 1754... I can't even know what to say to that.

    Most conservatives do not want to accept that time moves forward. They cling to the past. Also in Europe.

    If they get their ways, the world would not see the year 2030 bc we'd all be dead.

    I wonder sometimes when all people will realize that we only have this one Earth and that we're ALL THE SAME.

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    by » Fri May 17th, 2019, 20:30

    Why is it racist? I understand that only white people (mostly men) are enforcing this law, a disgusting law at that, but they’re not saying white women can have abortions and no other races can?

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    by » Fri May 17th, 2019, 20:40

    Quote Originally Posted by Thriller View Post
    I don’t think murder is the right term at all - a foetus isn’t a fully rational, functioning person with human thoughts, feelings or developed brain connections.

    I’m also not sure how much men should be getting involved with a purely female issue. Yes, it takes a man to make a child, but the woman carries it, physically births it and lives with the lasting effects of that. Then you have economic and social issues that certain women should not have to go through pregnancy, whether it results in adoption or not. Not to even mention rape and incest!
    Men can have a view on this topic too ya know...what do you think about women trying to petition to have the right to kill their baby up until 9 months or what should be done about babies that survive the abortion process? (I didn’t even know that was possible!) There are so many aspects to this that I don’t see people talking about. Even if you don’t agree with the law, surely you can understand the basics of why people would oppose the death of innocent life?

    Also if a woman doesn’t want a baby she does have options to avoid a pregnancy to begin with...the rape thing is another discussion...but then again it’s hard to prove someone was raped as it is so not sure how they would be able to have this law but exclude rape victims from it. How would that work?

    I’m just trying to put an alternative view out of there so we can have a mature/civilised discussion.

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    by » Fri May 17th, 2019, 20:58

    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyCrazy View Post
    The abortion topic...for the longest time I thought like you guys and thought it was the woman’s right to terminate but after seeing an aborted baby...have any of you seen that? It was one of the saddest and awful things I’d ever seen and it shifted my perspective on this topic...can a law which stops the murder of innocent babies be such a bad thing?

    I understand both sides of this argument, not sure what to think...
    Can a law that prevents girls who were raped by their fathers from having an abortion be that bad?
    Can a law who may criminalise women for having involuntary abortions be so bad?

    At 6 weeks a human foetus is indistinguishable from a mouse foetus. Or even a fish. Don't be ridiculous. These are not babies.

    Abortions will happen regardless if you want to jail women and doctors for 99 years. This is not about late term abortions, this is about pre-10 week abortions. Or abortions in cases where the women's life is endangered.
    Last edited by DnBLover; Fri May 17th, 2019 at 21:01.
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    by » Fri May 17th, 2019, 21:05

    Men can of course have a view, but I don’t think men alone should be enforcing anything. There are smart enough women who can do that and a man will never be able to relate to the issue.

    No, of course abortion shouldn’t be an option after a certain point. If a baby is ready to be born, it’s a person, and that’s a different matter.

    Abortion should never be used as birth control of course. A woman does have options to avoid pregnancy but none of them are 100%, and it is a shared responsibility between the man and woman to use birth control. It’s really not about proving if a woman was raped or not, the fact that women ARE raped and DO get pregnant by rape is reason enough alone to mean every woman should have the choice.

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    by » Fri May 17th, 2019, 21:06

    Quote Originally Posted by DnBLover View Post
    Can a law that prevents girls who were raped by their fathers from having an abortion be that bad?
    Can a law who may criminalise women for having involuntary abortions be so bad?

    At 6 weeks a human foetus is indistinguishable from a mouse foetus. Or even a fish. Don't be ridiculous. These are not babies.

    Abortions will happen regardless if you want to jail women and doctors with 99 years. This is not about late term abortions, this is about pre-10 week abortions. Or abortions in cases where the women's life is endangered.
    Yes I agree with you that they should exclude incest rape from this and rape in general...but in a general sense I can understand how one could be against abortion. Just because it’s a foetus it isn’t a valued life? Isn’t that how we all started...

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    by » Fri May 17th, 2019, 21:13

    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyCrazy View Post
    Men can have a view on this topic too ya know...
    Yes, a view - but men should not be able to legislate against a woman's right to choose (see: the Alabama ruling). Roe v Wade remains one of the most important Supreme Court rulings of all-time and it is frankly frightening that State legislatures threaten to overturn it.

    From the moment a woman gets pregnant through to the point at which the baby is born - it should be entirely the woman's right, and she should be supported by the appropriate medical specialists with whatever decision she chooses to make.

    Or are women entitled to legislate against men when they masturbate, as god forbid all of that innocent, lovely sperm goes to waste? Murdering bastards.

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    by » Fri May 17th, 2019, 21:15

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne View Post
    Yes, a view - but men should not be able to legislate against a woman's right to choose (see: the Alabama ruling). Roe v Wade remains one of the most important Supreme Court rulings of all-time and it is frankly frightening that State legislatures threaten to overturn it.

    From the moment a woman gets pregnant through to the point at which the baby is born - it should be entirely the woman's right, and she should be supported by the appropriate medical specialists with whatever decision she chooses to make.
    so you think a woman should have the right to kill their baby even if it is fully grown? It’s not just about the woman is it, what about the baby?

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    by » Fri May 17th, 2019, 21:17

    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyCrazy View Post
    Just because it’s a foetus it isn’t a valued life? Isn’t that how we all started...
    Sure, you can define life how you want it to be. You can even define sperm as life, isn't that how it all started?

    For me, an aggregate of cells is not a priority. I am against late term abortions, anything after 15 weeks is fiddly for me. But killing a woman for having an abortion is frankly monstrous.

    But bottom line: that law is appalling.
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    by » Fri May 17th, 2019, 21:18

    Moved the topics out of Random Thought Thread and into here.

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    by » Fri May 17th, 2019, 21:24

    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyCrazy View Post
    The abortion topic...for the longest time I thought like you guys and thought it was the woman’s right to terminate but after seeing an aborted baby...have any of you seen that? It was one of the saddest and awful things I’d ever seen and it shifted my perspective on this topic...can a law which stops the murder of innocent babies be such a bad thing?

    I understand both sides of this argument, not sure what to think...
    The anti-abortion laws that are being introduced in Republican US states like Alabama or Mississippi ban abortions after the 6th week of pregancy. At that point, the embryo is literally just a cluster of cells, there's no 'innocent baby' getting 'murdered'.

    I'm against late-term abortions for non-medical reasons, but in most places those were never legal in the first place.

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    by » Fri May 17th, 2019, 21:27

    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyCrazy View Post
    Wow so you think a woman should have the right to kill their baby even if it is fully grown? It’s not just about the woman is it, what about the baby?
    In principle, I believe that a woman's body is her own (I can't believe that I've had to say that in 2019) - and that with the right medical advice, she should be empowered to do what she wants to a point (I'm against late term abortions that aren't medically necessary).

    In the vast majority of cases, abortion is conducted under the guidance of medical practitioners and the woman fully understands the implications - what Alabama has done is a disgrace.

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    by » Fri May 17th, 2019, 21:38

    Quote Originally Posted by DnBLover View Post
    Sure, you can define life how you want it to be. You can even define sperm as life, isn't that how it all started?

    For me, an aggregate of cells is not a priority. I am against late term abortions, anything after 15 weeks is fiddly for me. But killing a woman for having an abortion is frankly monstrous.

    But bottom line: that law is appalling.
    So the law says the woman should be killed for having an abortion? You’ve lost me. I’m slow remember.

    I’m glad you guys are at-least against late term abortions (apart from Wayne). Rihab - innocent life then ;)

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    by » Fri May 17th, 2019, 21:46

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne View Post
    In principle, I believe that a woman's body is her own (I can't believe that I've had to say that in 2019) - and that with the right medical advice, she should be empowered to do what she wants to a point (I'm against late term abortions that aren't medically necessary).

    In the vast majority of cases, abortion is conducted under the guidance of medical practitioners and the woman fully understands the implications - what Alabama has done is a disgrace.
    I get the whole my body my choice thing but at what point does the baby have a right to live? I think it goes beyond the my body my choice thing at a certain point imo.

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    by » Fri May 17th, 2019, 21:50

    Quote Originally Posted by Serby View Post
    SOURCE

    Surprised this didn't get a topic her yet, but I think it really deserves one.

    I am disgusted by the republicans, and anyone who dares to ever say "not all white people" and "not all men" surely found the great timing to stay quiet now. *we see you*

    Will later provide the sources and valuable info on why this is not just a women issue and how this legislation is racist at its core. Feel free to shade the hell out of Alyssa Milano even if she's your childhood idol (like in my case). That #sexban is useless and full of blind spots for a bigger picture.

    Discuss!
    Sorry to say but this post is such a cliche SJW mess. Wtf are you talking about..how have you managed to pull race into it this time? I’m sure there are black people who are opposed to abortion too and other races too.

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    by » Fri May 17th, 2019, 21:59

    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyCrazy View Post
    Sorry to say but this post is such a cliche SJW mess. Wtf are you talking about..how have you managed to pull race into it this time? I’m sure there are black people who are opposed to abortion too and other races too.
    I will have to kind of agree. Pitting races and sexes against each other is a big problem in today's internet.
    Also bringing "gender politics" to something which concerns only biological sex is not warranted, in my opinion.
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    by » Fri May 17th, 2019, 21:59

    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyCrazy View Post
    So the law says the woman should be killed for having an abortion? You’ve lost me. I’m slow remember.
    Yes some states promote the death penalty on this issue. It is not law yet but they are trying hard.
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    by » Fri May 17th, 2019, 22:02

    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyCrazy View Post
    I get the whole my body my choice thing but at what point does the baby have a right to live? I think it goes beyond the my body my choice thing at a certain point imo.
    You should probably do some embryology research to answer this question. A human is not recognisable as a human before 15 weeks I believe, where it is still confusable with some monkey species. I think at 6 weeks it is still confusable with many mammals including mice. The embryo stage is medically defined as prior to 10 weeks, so that is a handy legal cut off. After that, it is assigned foetus status.
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    by » Fri May 17th, 2019, 22:13

    Thank you for the information DnBlover, I will have a closer look.

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    by » Fri May 17th, 2019, 22:45

    This will force many into having unsafe, unreported abortions. Deeply unfortunate.

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