Mass shooting in Ohio, US

[DnBLover]

[MENTION=18111]TIfan[/MENTION] violent people in other countries use knives and maybe stab a few people before bring taken down. In my country such incident has never even occurred to begin with.

But don't ignore the studies showing how number of guns correlates perfectly with the number of mass shootings. Even if you remove the US from the equation, the relationship is maintained. Only Yemen, in the middle of a massive war, has a comparable number of mass shootings, and it is the second country with the most weapons.

You need to start regulating, make it difficult to acquire a gun. The American gun culture likely won't change. In Europe, we trust the police will protect us, and I guarantee you in many places the police themselves don't even carry guns. The problem is that everyone flips out, but that can get deadly really fast if you have a gun. In London and NYC you have roughly the same probability of being assaulted, yet you are 57x more likely of getting killed in the process in NYC.

Americans appear to be blind in this thing of "let us protect ourselves", when clearly this doesn't work and results in hundreds of deaths per year just in guns misfiring.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/world/americas/mass-shootings-us-international.amp.html&ved=2ahUKEwilzqvcrOvjAhXjnVwKHe8dCIgQFjACegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw2fTP6HnO9vWp-Fqs4CZZEC&ampcf=1

[spiritboy]

I don't thing anything will change unless it's relatives or loved ones of Republicans who are shot dead with those weapons. It's sad but true. And if they listen carefully, nobody wants to ban guns. They just want to ban assault weapons and have a background check before someone purchases a gun. What people want makes perfect sense yet some people are too dumb to see it or it doesn't suit their purpose.

[BeeBoy]

I think the US also has other deep rooted problems, which intensify the issue. The education system clearly needs to be changed as well. Education is the most important thing working against violence. The way evolution is treated as a theory, the way people need to get into a lifelong debt to study, the way history is treated as a school subject. Religion is also another factor it plays the biggest part in the US compared to any other western 1st world country. I know many don't want to hear it but the fanatic followers of religion will always divide humanity.

[WEBofDESIRE]

I'm shocked how many Americans in social networks comments still support free gun sale. Like they're brainwashed or something...

Not far from the truth. The right-wing media has done a remarkable job convincing its viewers that the only valid source of information is within the right-wing bubble. When you let a small group of individuals ultimately decide how you think, for decades no less, bad things happen.

[Postgenic]

Immediate ban is the first step. Anything else is useless.

Banning them isn't the solution; ffs alcohol was banned during Prohibition and yet many people still acquired it illegally, and many drugs like meth, heroin and cocaine are illegal at the moment and yet that also hasn't stopped people from obtaining them via nefarious ways. The only thing that banning guns would do is increase arms trafficking.

Religion is also another factor it plays the biggest part in the US compared to any other western 1st world country. I know many don't want to hear it but the fanatic followers of religion will always divide humanity.

What does religion have to do with any of this? There's nothing in the Bible that advocates for gun violence so I don't know what you're trying to imply.

[BehindBreakaway]

Banning them isn't the solution; ffs alcohol was banned during Prohibition and yet many people still acquired it illegally, and many drugs like meth, heroin and cocaine are illegal at the moment and yet that also hasn't stopped people from obtaining them via nefarious ways. The only thing that banning guns would do is increase arms trafficking.



What does religion have to do with any of this? There's nothing in the Bible that advocates for gun violence so I don't know what you're trying to imply.

Yes but surely if the guns are harder to obtain, there's less chance of your average Joe crazy being able to get one. Guns aren't easy to just illegally obtain. There would 100% be less mass shootings if guns where banned. Its worked in other places around the world. Where I live it's seen as being paramilitary lead which leads people to think that you can get guns whenever. It doesn't work like that. Yes. Illegally gun trading may go up, but imo the pros far, far outweigh the cons.

[DnBLover]

Banning them isn't the solution; ffs alcohol was banned during Prohibition and yet many people still acquired it illegally, and many drugs like meth, heroin and cocaine are illegal at the moment and yet that also hasn't stopped people from obtaining them via nefarious ways. The only thing that banning guns would do is increase arms trafficking.



What does religion have to do with any of this? There's nothing in the Bible that advocates for gun violence so I don't know what you're trying to imply.

[Serby]

Well since you're one of the good religious people, do you call out those who abuse the religion? Or are you pretending they don't exist and gonna stick to the useless 'not in my church' rethoric?

[BeeBoy]

What does religion have to do with any of this? There's nothing in the Bible that advocates for gun violence so I don't know what you're trying to imply.

Fanatics of any religion will always feel superior because their believe is the right one and the only way to lead a life. It has been that way since thousands of years so I don't understand why you can't connect the dots. There is also nothing in the bible that advocates for crusades. Religious scriptures will always be twisted and turned. The shooter in El Paso was racist and a huge Trump and KKK supporter, the same way the shooting was aimed at latin immigrants, another will be aimed at muslims e.g. like the one in New Zealand.

[beredy]

Banning them isn't the solution; ffs alcohol was banned during Prohibition and yet many people still acquired it illegally, and many drugs like meth, heroin and cocaine are illegal at the moment and yet that also hasn't stopped people from obtaining them via nefarious ways. The only thing that banning guns would do is increase arms trafficking.



What does religion have to do with any of this? There's nothing in the Bible that advocates for gun violence so I don't know what you're trying to imply.

LOL, yeah, because it's completely normal thinking that getting into a supermarket and putting a gun in your shopping basket next to butter and flour Guns should be nearly impossible to get to for citizens. Period.

Also as there weren't any guns when Bible was written, it's impossible to find gun related violence. But write down every type and kind of violence from back then and you'll be able to put a check mark next to each and every, because you'll find them all in the Bible. Usually when god kills infidels. So I have no doubt that that very same god wouldn't pull a shooting range as one of his punishments.

[Wayne]

Banning them isn't the solution; ffs alcohol was banned during Prohibition and yet many people still acquired it illegally, and many drugs like meth, heroin and cocaine are illegal at the moment and yet that also hasn't stopped people from obtaining them via nefarious ways. The only thing that banning guns would do is increase arms trafficking.

If banning them isn't the solution, then why do countries with tough gun laws not have this issue? Much stricter gun control is the start of the process, but there's a much more substantial cultural change that needs to happen - in the US, you are basically born in the belief that you are entitled to a gun because the constitution tells you you can have one. It is obscene.

[WEBofDESIRE]

Banning them isn't the solution; ffs alcohol was banned during Prohibition and yet many people still acquired it illegally, and many drugs like meth, heroin and cocaine are illegal at the moment and yet that also hasn't stopped people from obtaining them via nefarious ways. The only thing that banning guns would do is increase arms trafficking.

Not the old fashioned call to anarchy in response to reasonable gun law reform, that's so played out. You do realize that this same logic could be applied to all laws. LOL

I assume your next argument is that you need a personal arsenal to protect against tyranny.

[Affillate]

Yes but surely if the guns are harder to obtain, there's less chance of your average Joe crazy being able to get one. Guns aren't easy to just illegally obtain. There would 100% be less mass shootings if guns where banned. Its worked in other places around the world. Where I live it's seen as being paramilitary lead which leads people to think that you can get guns whenever. It doesn't work like that. Yes. Illegally gun trading may go up, but imo the pros far, far outweigh the cons.

This. Everyone always brings up Australia's response to the 1996 Port Arthur Massacre with the law changes and Gun amnesty as this paragon example of shutting down gun violence.

That's not to say we now NEVER have any instances of gun crime (Eg every now and again you'll hear reports of a gang related drive by shooting, and we had some shocking things like the 2014 Lindt Cafe Siege and I recall there was a instance of a student shooting a police officer dead or something a couple years ago) but thankfully it hasn't reached the senseless number of lives lost as a direct result of gun violence again (IIRC 35 were killed at Port Arthur).

That and probably helped by the fact guns aren't as easily obtainable or without the overall mindset of the 2nd amendment/'If the victims had a gun' mentality that's so rife in the US, that has made the situation just so out of hand.

[IVyoncé]

Banning them isn't the solution; ffs alcohol was banned during Prohibition and yet many people still acquired it illegally, and many drugs like meth, heroin and cocaine are illegal at the moment and yet that also hasn't stopped people from obtaining them via nefarious ways. The only thing that banning guns would do is increase arms trafficking.

The only reason why arms trafficking would increase in theory is because of the dumb reasoning that having a gun should be a 'right', the whole mindset is effed up to the core. I bet the police would knock you down in the US if you walk into a random supermarket with a massive knive or sword, yet you can get your cornflakes alongside a gun. No citizen should have acces to a gun, semi or automatic weapon, only trained professionals. Also the whole 'I need to protect myself' rhetoric is ridiculous, because in the end that would mean that if everyone has an atomic bomb in their backyard, you also need to get one to 'protect' your home, while all you do is destroy the world if you all push that button. I know the last is a ridiculous example, but it is the kind of logic that is getting used by a lot of people. Same for the dumb excuse that people need a semi-automatic weapon to 'hunt', while if you would hunt a deer with that kind of weapon, there would be nothing left but small pieces.

The mindset needs to change, the guns need to be banned and anyone who eventually gets acces to a gun needs to be screened and checked plenty of times a year. People can mentally change in a couple of months because of tragic events etc. It will not completely prevent these kind of things happening but it would fore sure decrease the numbers A LOT.

[LittleLinda]

A request to anyone opposing stricter gun laws:
1) Please stop saying that it won’t prevent mass shootings, because there are ways to illegally obtain guns. Stopping mass shootings from happening is impossible, nobody is claiming otherwise. The attempt is to drastically reduce them, because the numbers in the US are beyond ridiculous at this point. Stricter gun laws are a viable way to this. If you think otherwise you obviously also think traffic signs are redundant, because some people frequently ignore them, banks don’t need alarm systems because robberies still happen and fences aren’t needed because they can be climbed or torn down.
The more difficult something is, the more risk, planning and effort it takes to actually pull it off, the less people do it. That is a simple fact. But as long as an everyday person can buy semi-automatic rifles (which were developed for one single purpose, can you guess which one that is?) mass shootings will remain an everyday problem.

2) Please give me a list of examples where a mass shooting was stopped in its tracks by „a good guy with a gun“ (not counting police officers who were called to the scene) I‘m honestly curious how many times that worked, as it is such a frequently used argument by the NRA and its fans.