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Thread: Game Of Thrones

  1. #1426
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    by » Tue June 25th, 2019, 00:19

    Double post gremlin . .again ....
    It might sound like I'm an unapologetic bitch
    But sometimes you know I gotta call it like it is

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    by » Tue June 25th, 2019, 02:03

    Quote Originally Posted by Madgefan View Post
    I think it's because they keep talking of how she isn't her father and then she goes and does the whole 'burn them all' thing he never achieved. It's actually quite depressing that the show is saying you can't escape your genes or your history, which is far from true. It's much too simplistic and perhaps with another season could have been 'fleshed out' much more satisfyingly. But yes, I totally agree with you, conquerors in history are often ruthless.
    Yeah but it just doesn't work at all. The way they did it it was merely that she was extremely angry and her world was falling apart, that's not mad. It's just that she performed an act of passion whilst holding a highly destructive weapon at her disposal. There was literally no sign of madness.

    And it's also not fair for people to say she's become the Queen of the Ashes in the end. Well, she burned down 1 city. There's plenty of other things she was ruling over. It's not uncommon at all for conquerors to make an example of a defiant city so the rest would just surrender.

    Or could it be that D&D understood "mad" in the American sense of the word, ie "angry"? I mean, that'd make sense...
    Quote Originally Posted by WhatTheHell
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    by » Tue June 25th, 2019, 08:14

    They cocked up season 8. Personally I feel like we’re supposed to believe she’s her father’s daughter, but there’s not enough character development to make us believe it.

    The signs are there and they included all of the triggers to make her the mad queen. But it means nothing without the character development. She should have been the mad queen going into the battle so that we could all go into that episode knowing the shit was about to hit the fan and unsure exactly how far she’d go.

    Instead Dany plays all her cards close to her chest and they make us think she snaps mid battle, when really she should have been stark raving mad from the moment Cersei cut off Miss Sunday’s head.

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    by » Tue June 25th, 2019, 08:23

    Quote Originally Posted by clh_hilary View Post
    And it's also not fair for people to say she's become the Queen of the Ashes in the end. Well, she burned down 1 city. There's plenty of other things she was ruling over.
    Hilary Clinton, is that you? I mean, if some girl on a dragon came and razed the whole NY (the biggest city in the US, just like KL is in Westeros), hopefully you wouldn't have the same argument of it being only 1 city. The thing to note is that Dany burned the city and the people despite the surrender bells which plays into the mad/angry/crazy idea they went for.

    Quote Originally Posted by clh_hilary View Post
    Or could it be that D&D understood "mad" in the American sense of the word, ie "angry"? I mean, that'd make sense...
    D&D understood nothing. That's why the last season is completely off the rails.
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    by » Tue June 25th, 2019, 14:43

    Quote Originally Posted by beredy View Post
    Hilary Clinton, is that you? I mean, if some girl on a dragon came and razed the whole NY (the biggest city in the US, just like KL is in Westeros), hopefully you wouldn't have the same argument of it being only 1 city. The thing to note is that Dany burned the city and the people despite the surrender bells which plays into the mad/angry/crazy idea they went for.
    Oh look! You don't even know how to spell Secretary Clinton's name...But that's not too surprising because the content of your post also suggests that you cannot read.

    I literally said she was performing an act of passion, that she was angry, that her world was tumbling down, and that it would make sense that way. But that it's not mad as in "insanity", that the narrative of "The Mad Queen" did not work.

    Alexander the Great burned a city down for no reason, historians still can't figure out why. Did anyone ever call him mad? No.

    The Japanese slaughtered cities in China after gaining them. Were they seen as insane? No.

    The Manchus slaughtered cities after winning them as a form of punishment. Did people call them crazy? No.

    The Ottomans routinely raid cities *after* winning the battle against them for days. That's literally their rule. Was the Ottoman Empire known as "The Empire of Ruins"? No.

    If you know anything about history, anything at all, you would quite easily see that almost all empires were incredibly cruel, and it's a habit for them to actually massacre citizens and destroy cities after gaining them, as a punishment for their not surrendering in the beginning. Daenerys was a classical conquerer in every sense of the word. She even did the whole "you will now have the chance to submit or you will risk being burned to the ground" thing, which was extremely common when it came to conquerers building a huge empire with relatively few troops. No vast empire in history built itself 100% with love and peace.

    Perhaps you should go back to school, so you can learn some history, some reading skills, and some spelling skills.
    Quote Originally Posted by WhatTheHell
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  6. #1431
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    by » Tue June 25th, 2019, 14:45

    Quote Originally Posted by menime123 View Post
    They cocked up season 8. Personally I feel like we’re supposed to believe she’s her father’s daughter, but there’s not enough character development to make us believe it.

    The signs are there and they included all of the triggers to make her the mad queen. But it means nothing without the character development. She should have been the mad queen going into the battle so that we could all go into that episode knowing the shit was about to hit the fan and unsure exactly how far she’d go.

    Instead Dany plays all her cards close to her chest and they make us think she snaps mid battle, when really she should have been stark raving mad from the moment Cersei cut off Miss Sunday’s head.
    They should've shown her actually doing crazy things before the battle. Like punishing someone within her own camp for her interpreter's death. Her father descended into madness over a very long period of time. She didn't even serve an evil laugh or anything like that.
    Quote Originally Posted by WhatTheHell
    Voice of the truth here!! :(

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    by » Tue June 25th, 2019, 14:52

    @clh_hilary I wish you could read. Then you'd be well aware why Dany's storyline builds to Mad Queen end. But alas, GOT books are not an easy read. You're taking one action completely out of context and comparing it to certain historical events that have no connection to it and have a completely different background to them. There's a reason why GRRM made up a big lore for GOT, a reason why Targaryen's inbreeding have lead them to become very unstable as persons, etc... But suit yourself, be blind, continue thinking that it's just anger and we all misunderstood whatever D&D tried to do and that this all wasn't complete mishandling of how the story should unfold.

    Also coming for me because of Hilary/Hillary. HILARIOUS! I don't know how you came up with it.
    I have received many gifts from God,
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  8. #1433
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    by » Tue June 25th, 2019, 15:10

    Quote Originally Posted by beredy View Post
    @clh_hilary I wish you could read. Then you'd be well aware why Dany's storyline builds to Mad Queen end. But alas, GOT books are not an easy read. You're taking one action completely out of context and comparing it to certain historical events that have no connection to it and have a completely different background to them. There's a reason why GRRM made up a big lore for GOT, a reason why Targaryen's inbreeding have lead them to become very unstable as persons, etc... But suit yourself, be blind, continue thinking that it's just anger and we all misunderstood whatever D&D tried to do and that this all wasn't complete mishandling of how the story should unfold.

    Also coming for me because of Hilary/Hillary. HILARIOUS! I don't know how you came up with it.
    I'm talking about the TV show so why are you bringing up clues in the book? The books haven't even reached the end, so how could you possibly merge the two?

    I will say this one last time, since you are still missing my point somehow: there needs to be more from the show to push an insanity narrative, and burning a city to the ground is nowhere near enough.

    But it's obvious why you're doing it: you're too embarrassed to admit your own fault, just like how you couldn't accept the fact that you failed to notice how to spell HRC's name. It's indeed very hilarious how tragic you are being, you can't even just take the L regarding your objective, obvious mistake in spelling her name.
    Quote Originally Posted by WhatTheHell
    Voice of the truth here!! :(

  9. #1434
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    by » Tue June 25th, 2019, 15:22

    ^The whole Internet agrees that development in the last season had huge shortcomings and that what was portrayed doesn't make sense, but yes - Dany went mad. That's it. That was the point. And of course I'm going to mention books as basic plotline is still the same and the ending wasn't made up by D&D but was revealed to them by GRRM. So the end game is the same.

    The thing is the last season of GOT didn't even have a coherent basic plotline, it just jumped from one point to another to get to the end. You act like you're discovering something new here, when this all has been covered in this thread and also on every mainstream and non-mainstream corner of Internet.

    Also, while some resentment on the forum is fine by me, the last paragraph of yours just makes me want to say to you - grow up, because you're only embarrassing yourself.
    I have received many gifts from God,
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  10. #1435
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    by » Yesterday, 14:35

    Quote Originally Posted by beredy View Post
    ^The whole Internet agrees that development in the last season had huge shortcomings and that what was portrayed doesn't make sense, but yes - Dany went mad. That's it. That was the point. And of course I'm going to mention books as basic plotline is still the same and the ending wasn't made up by D&D but was revealed to them by GRRM. So the end game is the same.

    The thing is the last season of GOT didn't even have a coherent basic plotline, it just jumped from one point to another to get to the end. You act like you're discovering something new here, when this all has been covered in this thread and also on every mainstream and non-mainstream corner of Internet.

    Also, while some resentment on the forum is fine by me, the last paragraph of yours just makes me want to say to you - grow up, because you're only embarrassing yourself.
    Is it a deliberate attempt from you to "have the last word" by not quoting or mentioning me this time?

    That's just ironic, asking me to grow up. I posted only facts, while you refuse to even acknowledge the objective fact that your incredibly cheap shot aiming at my name showed your ignorance.

    Want to see a story with a monarch that turned mad in an hour? Macbeth. THAT is a story that actually shows that the monarch had turned mad, not just by proclaiming outside the show that she's gone mad because of her genes. My point is that the TV show did not show her with actual insanity at all. You have failed, time and time again, to respond to my point that burning a city down after a victory is entirely within the norms of the period the story was set in, ie burning a city down in 2019 would be condemned universally, but doing it in the ancient times is very normal, and thus not mad. You asserted that they were unrelated and out of context, yet you failed to explain, in any way, how that's the case.

    The quality of this discussion with you is appealingly poor. I'm the only one making any arguments, whilst all you have done is either cheap shots that didn't work, or an assertion to dismiss everything with nothing from your own.
    Quote Originally Posted by WhatTheHell
    Voice of the truth here!! :(

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    by » Yesterday, 14:39

    ^ (never saw this used on forum before?)

    I have received many gifts from God,
    but this is the first time I have ever received a gift from a goddess
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    Don McLean on Madonna's version of American Pie

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    by » Yesterday, 14:47

    Quote Originally Posted by beredy View Post
    ^ (never saw this used on forum before?)

    Yeah right, I'm "delusional" for knowing history, and for not spotting your reasoning for dismissing comparisons to historic events set in a similar time period as the story was. Yet another cheap shot because clearly that's all you can do. You cannot form arguments, you cannot provide evidence to support your views. Why do you even post if you are unwilling to explain yourself? This isn't a debate, you're still keep repeating your assertions then when challenged, you throw in a random insult to make yourself feel better.

    The psychological transference is truly strong with this one.
    Last edited by clh_hilary; Yesterday at 14:57.
    Quote Originally Posted by WhatTheHell
    Voice of the truth here!! :(

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    by » Yesterday, 14:59

    ^You're comparing history to a fiction, which is indeed based on certain historical periods, but nevertheless it's fiction encompassing a variety of basic literary plot points (and GRRM doesn't even try to hide the literature that inspired him for ASOIAF) and also belonging in the fantasy genre where things like zombies, magic, dragons are possible. It's a world that has it's own rules and cannot be solely judged by comparison to historical events or other works that have their own set of rules.

    You're taking certain things that happened completely out of context and equaling them to other things you've taken out of their own context. But if that makes you feel like you get it all, then that's completely fine by me. You're not up for a healthy discussion which everyone here can see. So enjoy your delusion.
    I have received many gifts from God,
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  14. #1439
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    by » Yesterday, 15:18

    Quote Originally Posted by beredy View Post
    ^You're comparing history to a fiction, which is indeed based on certain historical periods, but nevertheless it's fiction encompassing a variety of basic literary plot points (and GRRM doesn't even try to hide the literature that inspired him for ASOIAF) and also belonging in the fantasy genre where things like zombies, magic, dragons are possible. It's a world that has it's own rules and cannot be solely judged by comparison to historical events or other works that have their own set of rules.

    You're taking certain things that happened completely out of context and equaling them to other things you've taken out of their own context. But if that makes you feel like you get it all, then that's completely fine by me. You're not up for a healthy discussion which everyone here can see. So enjoy your delusion.
    So exactly where in the show showed her insanity? People in the show also didn't say she's gone crazy. If Arya had said "I know a mad woman when I see one", that'd be something. But no, she didn't even say that. If it wasn't so obvious from the books (which once again, had not even been concluded so we cannot compare the TV show ending to the development in the books, as the endings might not be exactly the same) that her arc was always going to be the cynical mad queen, nobody would even be saying she's gone mad.

    In Macbeth - a fictional fantastical piece of work if you cannot deal with historical facts - the King was deemed insane because he was hallucinating all the time, not because he was cruel (they simply called him a tyrant for that) and killed lots of people. Being conquerer-like for an ancient conqueror was normal, and if your argument was that GoT was set in a different time, then that'd be fine, but that's also not what you're saying, and not the reality.

    Within the GoT universe, it's also very common for massacres to happen. Arya slaughtered an entire house. The Freys slaughtered the Starks, violating guest rights. Danys's initial bunch of followers after the birth of the dragons were all slaughtered. Sansa fed Ramsey to the literal dogs even though he couldn't hurt her any more. It just so happens that in her case, she has a dragon, and dragons are very destructive. And King's Landing itself...was sacked by the Lannisters *after* they won the war for Robert's rebellion. So can you explain how within that universe, none of these was seen as mad?

    Once again, I'm the one who made arguments and provided evidence to support my views. So yes, so if it's unhealthy, perhaps you should point the finger at yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by WhatTheHell
    Voice of the truth here!! :(

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    by » Yesterday, 15:59

    You pretty much answered it yourself and it's kind of ironic you don't see it. GRRM is yet to finish the books but be sure that there will be more to Dany going crazy than what was in the show. D&D wanted to finish the show and be done with it and did the rest of character development in such broad strokes that they don't stand upon further scrutiny. Dany is supposed to be mad in the end. That's a fact. Just as it is a fact that the way they led her to it is really bad. But you can't say oh she's not mad because of that that and that, when it is clear that was the point. Even if you provide the shows logic it's a futile task as the shoe conpletely abandoned every logic in the last season which is truly sad.

    For your information GRRM said he thought there was material for 3 more seasons and D&D were explicit that they wanted to finish everything in season 8. That should tell you that this season was like someone fast forwarding the rest of the story.

    You can argue all you want but the fact is that the end was rushed, nonsensical and truly not worthy of making sense of it and trying to explain everything when not even D&D cared about things working in the end as they should have.

    But you have an agenda of being right, so I have no doubt you'll try to argue some more.
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  16. #1441
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    by » Yesterday, 16:15

    Quote Originally Posted by beredy View Post
    You pretty much answered it yourself and it's kind of ironic you don't see it. GRRM is yet to finish the books but be sure that there will be more to Dany going crazy than what was in the show. D&D wanted to finish the show and be done with it and did the rest of character development in such broad strokes that they don't stand upon further scrutiny. Dany is supposed to be mad in the end. That's a fact. Just as it is a fact that the way they led her to it is really bad. But you can't say oh she's not mad because of that that and that, when it is clear that was the point. Even if you provide the shows logic it's a futile task as the shoe conpletely abandoned every logic in the last season which is truly sad.

    For your information GRRM said he thought there was material for 3 more seasons and D&D were explicit that they wanted to finish everything in season 8. That should tell you that this season was like someone fast forwarding the rest of the story.

    You can argue all you want but the fact is that the end was rushed, nonsensical and truly not worthy of making sense of it and trying to explain everything when not even D&D cared about things working in the end as they should have.

    But you have an agenda of being right, so I have no doubt you'll try to argue some more.
    This thread is called Game of Thrones, not A Song of Ice and Fire. I have been extremely clear about the fact that I am talking about the TV show, and not the books. The show in no way showed her being mad, her destroying King's Landing was within the norms for historical conquerers, normal for fictional ancient tyrants, and also not particularly out of line within the story's own universe. Even the Mad King wouldn't necessarily have been seen as insane, if *all* he did was to attempt to burn the city, without the rest of all the actual crazy stuff he's been doing years before he reached that point.

    The fact that you keep missing my point that people shouldn't go with the mad queen narrative because the show tried and failed to achieve, but still somehow think you are "right" is astonishing. You never disagreed with me at all, you simply don't like to say you agree with me.
    Quote Originally Posted by WhatTheHell
    Voice of the truth here!! :(

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    I have received many gifts from God,
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    by » Yesterday, 16:54

    Quote Originally Posted by beredy View Post
    Yawn.
    Your initial post:

    Quote Originally Posted by beredy View Post
    The thing to note is that Dany burned the city and the people despite the surrender bells which plays into the mad/angry/crazy idea they went for.
    Your last actual post:

    Quote Originally Posted by beredy View Post
    Even if you provide the shows [sic] logic it's a futile task as the shoe [sic] conpletely [sic] abandoned every logic in the last season which is truly sad.
    You admitted that I was right to challenge the show's failure to lead into the mad queen narrative, yet:

    Quote Originally Posted by beredy View Post
    But you have an agenda of being right,
    so you have decided that you would just post whatever playground insult you can think of because you want to have the last word.

    I don't know what your problem is.
    Quote Originally Posted by WhatTheHell
    Voice of the truth here!! :(

  19. #1444
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    by » Yesterday, 18:02

    You have fun twisting stuff to suit your narrative, don't you? At least you show more imagination than D&D, but still show lack of comprehension unfortunately.
    I have received many gifts from God,
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    Don McLean on Madonna's version of American Pie

  20. #1445
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    by » Yesterday, 23:02

    It’s a TV show guys, no need to get so argumentative about it please. Let’s move on.

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