Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 76

Thread: Midweeks charts copyright issue

  1. #1
    lars's Avatar
    Manager
    Join Date
    21 Jan 2001
    Location
    Sussex
    Posts
    3,826
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)

    by » Tue July 29th, 2003, 22:04

    The Official UK Charts Company have been in touch with UKMIX to complain about unauthorised use of the midweeks charts information.

    Apparently, fans should not be allowed to know facts and figures about the music they buy.

    Personally I don't see how discussing the midweeks can be anything but a good thing. Taking copyright enforcement to the fans is at best short-sighted, probably a lot uglier than that.

    Anyway, my opinion has no bearing on the law. Unfortunately, it's difficult to establish exactly how much discussion of charts is "legal" without paying up a fat wad of notes for proper legal advice. So I'm going to have to err on the side of caution.

    I will need to remove/edit some posts in the Midweeks topic, now and probably again when I receive more information about alleged copyright infringement.

    From now on, please do not post any chart information that can be construed as infringing copyright. This means specific chart placings or listings. The midweeks information should be considered more sensitive than regular chart placings; while it's probably ok to say "Madonna's at the top of this week's chart" after the weekly Top 40 rundown, it's probably not ok to say "Madonna's at the top of the midweeks chart" halfway through the week.

    If you want to be extra safe, avoid thinking about chart positions immediately before and during a session on the UKMIX forums. ;-)

    Anyone who posts midweeks info will be causing us a lot of bother, as we'll need to delete posts and respond to complaints about copyright infringement, so we'll have to (reluctantly) deal with it as other forms of forums abuse.

  2. #2
    Legend
    Join Date
    28 Nov 2002
    Location
    Jason's arms/Hugh Grant's face
    Posts
    20,386
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)

    by » Tue July 29th, 2003, 22:09

    And people wonder why sales of the single are dying!

    I dont know if that has anything to do with it - but still. I made a point!

    Ah well. People can tell me on MSN!
    When you left I lost a part of me, It's still so hard to believe
    Come back baby please cos We belong together

    June 27th

  3. #3
    Superstar
    Join Date
    10 Nov 2002
    Location
    Leafy Hertfordshire
    Posts
    7,179
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)

    by » Tue July 29th, 2003, 22:11

    Well, i've found out where they are now, so i'll juss acrry on going there !!

  4. #4
    Manager
    Join Date
    18 Nov 2002
    Location
    Brighton
    Posts
    3,369
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)

    by » Tue July 29th, 2003, 22:20

    Doh!

  5. #5
    matthew_dixon's Avatar
    Legend
    Join Date
    01 Mar 2001
    Location
    Cardiff
    Posts
    49,254
    Mentioned
    90 Post(s)

    by » Tue July 29th, 2003, 22:24

    Okay this is the confirmation we were waiting for. The Official Charts Company had to go to Lars direct about it, and they have. Lars, I actually see no way that posts in the "Midweeks" topic can be edited - it's a topic that actively discusses the actual midweek chart positions (though in fairness doesn't normally divulge sales information - that is sensitive).

    So, in line with the official rules of the Official UK Charts Company, I am left with no choice

    *reaches into pocket to get biggest key he's ever had to use*

    Lars, Aneta, Amir, feel free to do whatever you want whilst I'm away... but for now... topic locked

  6. #6
    Legend
    Join Date
    28 Nov 2002
    Location
    Jason's arms/Hugh Grant's face
    Posts
    20,386
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)

    by » Tue July 29th, 2003, 22:26



    Isn't that going too far?
    When you left I lost a part of me, It's still so hard to believe
    Come back baby please cos We belong together

    June 27th

  7. #7
    Manager
    Join Date
    23 Nov 2002
    Location
    Reading, England
    Posts
    3,409
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)

    by » Tue July 29th, 2003, 22:27

    Oh this bums!

  8. #8
    matthew_dixon's Avatar
    Legend
    Join Date
    01 Mar 2001
    Location
    Cardiff
    Posts
    49,254
    Mentioned
    90 Post(s)

    by » Tue July 29th, 2003, 22:29

    Quote Originally Posted by lars
    This means specific chart placings or listings.
    That entire topic is about specific chart placings

  9. #9
    Legend
    Join Date
    28 Nov 2002
    Location
    Jason's arms/Hugh Grant's face
    Posts
    20,386
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)

    by » Tue July 29th, 2003, 22:31

    This is just stupid! :x

    Loadsa places say about the midweeks. MTv and all that say whos on top, teletext...
    When you left I lost a part of me, It's still so hard to believe
    Come back baby please cos We belong together

    June 27th

  10. #10
    lars's Avatar
    Manager
    Join Date
    21 Jan 2001
    Location
    Sussex
    Posts
    3,826
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)

    by » Tue July 29th, 2003, 22:37

    Quote Originally Posted by matthew_dixon
    Lars, Aneta, Amir, feel free to do whatever you want whilst I'm away... but for now... topic locked
    Sorry for the confusion but I didn't actually want to go ahead and lock the topic at this time. People can still talk about charts in general. Or the weather. ;-)

  11. #11
    Manager
    Join Date
    18 Nov 2002
    Location
    Brighton
    Posts
    3,369
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)

    by » Tue July 29th, 2003, 23:08

    Its cold where I am.

  12. #12
    Superstar
    Join Date
    18 Aug 2002
    Location
    Hull, East Yorkshire, England
    Posts
    8,112
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)

    by » Tue July 29th, 2003, 23:13

    Quote Originally Posted by S4BUK
    Its cold where I am.
    It's cold where I am too, but I feel warm inside...

  13. #13
    Superstar
    Join Date
    24 Oct 2002
    Posts
    7,106
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)

    by » Wed July 30th, 2003, 14:07

    ^ Hehe, awww !

    Anyways, so I just wanna check, can we even say 'blah blah looks like he/she might just scrape the top 50 by Sunday' if we know they're like number 50-something in the midweeks :-? ?

  14. #14
    Personal Assistant
    Join Date
    23 Jan 2001
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,242
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)

    by » Wed July 30th, 2003, 14:54

    If we hear on the radio (or from anywhere else) that somebody is at number 'x' in the midweeks, are we allowed to discuss that, but not to 'publish' the whole chart? Otherwise, what would be the point in them at all? Surely it's just quoting, like quoting a line from an article or a statistic from a piece of research.

    I agree with most people that this is ridiculous, but I guess there's not a great deal you can do.
    Get thinking

    Live life

  15. #15
    matthew_dixon's Avatar
    Legend
    Join Date
    01 Mar 2001
    Location
    Cardiff
    Posts
    49,254
    Mentioned
    90 Post(s)

    by » Wed July 30th, 2003, 16:04

    I think it's fine to discuss where someone is in the midweek charts as part of a topic about that artist. I think the problem is a topic like the "Midweeks" topic where someone publishes a full set of midweeks.

  16. #16
    Roadie
    Join Date
    23 Jan 2001
    Location
    Alphen a/d Rijn in Holland
    Posts
    625
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    by » Wed July 30th, 2003, 16:23

    I was just as amazed to read this announcement as anyone I guess ... at least at first. What possible reason could The Official UK Charts Company have to do this?

    Are they afraid of unfair competition if charts already are published in the middle of the week? Well they are supposed to be independant (of record company that is) so why bother? :-?

    So are they afraid that discussion about the Midweeks Charts will ruin the record sales in general? No, because as Lars pointed out so well: discussion most likely only leads to more sales! :-?

    So what could be the reason for this remarkable move from The Official UK Charts Company then?

    And then I read the (not so tiny) key-word in Lars' message: copyright. Copyright is all about who owns published data. If you don't own the data, you can not publish them. Unless ... you pay a huge sum of money so the owner grants you the publishing rights! That is what this is all about dear UKMIX-ers! My guess is that The Official UK Charts Company has thought of a new way of generating money!

    Now all I wonder is who they will find silly enough to pay a ridiculous sum of money to be able to publish the midweeks?! :-? Ah but forgive me, that information is confidential ...

  17. #17
    matthew_dixon's Avatar
    Legend
    Join Date
    01 Mar 2001
    Location
    Cardiff
    Posts
    49,254
    Mentioned
    90 Post(s)

    by » Wed July 30th, 2003, 16:31

    Oscar - I wasn't surprised in the slightest by this. They've already done the same at http://www.dotmusic.com and http://www.dvdfever.co.uk and apparently was the reason that http://www.worldpop.com closed so abruptly (although that last one is open for debate). I guessed it would probably be a matter of time before they came after us as well. They had apparently already attempted asking through a member of UKMIX communnity that they have contact with - which seems like a perverse way of contacting us, but this person does apparently have close contact with someone quite high up in the OCC. It's an odd rule they have. I can understand them not wanting full sales information published because it's confidential, however the actual chart positions seem to only encourage some people to buy more copies of failing singles to stop them failing too badly.

  18. #18
    lars's Avatar
    Manager
    Join Date
    21 Jan 2001
    Location
    Sussex
    Posts
    3,826
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)

    by » Wed July 30th, 2003, 20:20

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan
    If we hear on the radio (or from anywhere else) that somebody is at number 'x' in the midweeks, are we allowed to discuss that, but not to 'publish' the whole chart? Otherwise, what would be the point in them at all? Surely it's just quoting, like quoting a line from an article or a statistic from a piece of research.
    I think what you're talking about here is 'fair use'. I expect it's legal to discuss things in the manner you say above, although I urge caution in general beause there's definitely such a thing as 'unfair legal pressure'!

  19. #19
    Manager
    Join Date
    18 Nov 2002
    Location
    Brighton
    Posts
    3,369
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)

    by » Wed July 30th, 2003, 22:01

    I miss Worldpop :(

  20. #20
    Manager
    Join Date
    18 Nov 2002
    Location
    Brighton
    Posts
    3,369
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)

    by » Wed July 30th, 2003, 22:04

    Worldpop closed because it went bankrupt.

    It was so nice there, I got sent a free CD from Nurse Pop .

    *reminisses*

  21. #21
    matthew_dixon's Avatar
    Legend
    Join Date
    01 Mar 2001
    Location
    Cardiff
    Posts
    49,254
    Mentioned
    90 Post(s)

    by » Wed July 30th, 2003, 22:06

    Yeah and apparently it was because their point blank refusal to do anything about their publication of the midweek charts each week resulted in an absolutely huge fine.

  22. #22
    Roadie
    Join Date
    23 Jan 2001
    Location
    Alphen a/d Rijn in Holland
    Posts
    625
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    by » Thu July 31st, 2003, 07:57

    Like I said Matthew, all it simply has to do with is money! So yes, having thought about it (like I explained in my previous post) I wasn't suprised about it either.

    Copyright means you have the intellectual property of that particular piece of information. Having that, means that no-one else may publish it without your authorization. For example look at the copyright notice underneath each UKMIX page!

    The Official UK Charts Company obviously thinks that they can earn a certain amount of money with this information. Otherwise they would not bother to undergo this sort of action. Fair use really has no meaning, once a company like this sees an oppertunity to get some extra profit. And how they intend to do this remains a mystery, so far at least ...

  23. #23
    Superstar
    Join Date
    10 Apr 2002
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    6,979
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)

    by » Thu July 31st, 2003, 12:08

    Well okay, firstly i was going to say a fair bit on this but i've been asked (not told but asked) not to say much about the situation.

    This was always going to happen and it just happened somewhat later rather than sooner - but better this way than well let's just say it could have been harsher.

    Other stes have also been told to stop so don't feel that UKMIX are being unfairly treated. There are very good reasons for not wanting publication of the midweeks (which i won't disclose on the forums) and to be honest it was inevitable.

    I wanted to say a fair bit more but i can't but for what its worth i think you've dealt with the situation very well Lars and this situation could have got quite messy but it was dealt with in the proper and mature manor - so well done on that front.

  24. #24
    SholasBoy's Avatar
    Legend
    Join Date
    01 Aug 2002
    Location
    Leeds
    Posts
    41,118
    Mentioned
    80 Post(s)

    by » Thu July 31st, 2003, 12:54

    I remember that www.clickmusic.co.uk used to post the midweeks, but they suddenly stopped, as did Channel 5 teletext.

  25. #25
    Superstar
    Join Date
    23 Mar 2002
    Location
    South Wales
    Posts
    5,736
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)

    by » Thu July 31st, 2003, 15:11

    That's stoopid.

    I mean, like Dazzle said, the midweeks are talked about all the time, the other day MTV and in the Sun today were on about how Blu was gonna be #1.

    I don't see why we can't talk about it.
    Riposarsi Negli Pesca Madre - 1960 - 2004
    Ti Voglio Bene! Per corteśa orologio io!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •